Am I allowed to date?

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MARYBEKAH

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I am a convert. I was married in the church. At the time of our wedding, many problems existed, and those problems only got worse throughout the marriage. We had already had a baby, and another on the way at the time of my initiation ceremony and our wedding. Because of abuse and infidelity on his part, I divorced my husband and the divorce has been final almost a year now.

I met someone (who is Catholic) recently, and we have gone out to dinner a couple of times, which my priest said was ok. I am currently undergoing the process to get my marriage annulled through the church. My question is: am I allowed to date? Me and the man I met ended up kissing the other night, and now I wonder what is acceptable and what is not. Am I allowed to kiss another male? Am I even allowed to date during the annullment process? Someone please help me…I’ve put off seeing this guy again until I find out for sure.
 
The Church does not annul marriages. The Church teaches and declares that a valid marriage lasts from the wedding until death of one of the spouses. When a marriage has insurmountable problems and there is a civil divorce, the Church will review to see if the marriage was valid from the beginning. A marriage is either valid from the moment of the wedding or it is not. A valid marriage cannot become invalid. Should the Church determine that there was never a valid marriage, they issue a decree of nullity - this states the marriage never existed, it was null.

It seems you have requested the Church investigate and see if the wedding you went through and the consent exchanged produced a valid marriage. When this investigation is over, you will know if you were validly married.

Until that investigation is complete, you may be validly married and should behave in the proper way. Married people do not date other people.

Stay close to Jesus in the Sacraments and trust He is enough for you.

On the secular side of things, it is never a good idea to bring boyfriends in when you have children. Wait to date until the kids are grown!
 
I think you answered your own question: “Me and the man I met ended up kissing the other night, and now I wonder what is acceptable and what is not.”

You need to live as if you are married until the Church has determined you were never Sacramentally married. Married people (even those only presumed to be married) don’t date others. You run the risk of scandal and continued confusion of conscience if you date.
 
I am a convert. I was married in the church. At the time of our wedding, many problems existed, and those problems only got worse throughout the marriage. We had already had a baby, and another on the way at the time of my initiation ceremony and our wedding. Because of abuse and infidelity on his part, I divorced my husband and the divorce has been final almost a year now.

I met someone (who is Catholic) recently, and we have gone out to dinner a couple of times, which my priest said was ok. I am currently undergoing the process to get my marriage annulled through the church. My question is: am I allowed to date? Me and the man I met ended up kissing the other night, and now I wonder what is acceptable and what is not. Am I allowed to kiss another male? Am I even allowed to date during the annullment process? Someone please help me…I’ve put off seeing this guy again until I find out for sure.
Yours is truly a fascinating question, and one that strikes home with me as I went through the same thing.
My ex walked out of a 24 year marriage that produced 2 children (both now adults). This was about 8 years ago.
I waited 1 full year to see if there was any chance she would wish to try to reconcile by going through counselling. When I got her final email telling me to stay the (blank) out of her life, I filed for the annulment.
In order to avoid giving her the chance to say that it was approved only because of my influence in the Knights of Columbus, I named all three witnesses from her side of the family, and their testimony was allowed to be kept secret from me…at my request.
It took the NH Tribunal 2 YEARS to finally grant it!

So now on the issue of dating: Under the civil laws of the land, you were no longer married once the divorce was Final. You then had the legal right to date as much as you wanted. No Church rule or law can ever stop that from happening. We know that and recognize it as being a fact of life.
Most annulments do not take 2 years from the time of filing before they are approved. Once all of the relevant testimony is in, the Tribunal reviews it thoroughly.
In my own case, I was Jewish at the time of the marriage, and knew nothing about Church laws(and, honestly, cared even less). However, once I became Roman Catholic, I had to accept those laws, and did so willingly. What I did not know was that the agreements she asked me to make before the marriage…were all in violation of Church law. The Tribunal apparantly agreed with that assertion. In fact, the Priest who did the wedding testified that he would not have done so if he had known about those agreements. Case Closed!
Meanwhile, she opted to stop attending Mass, while I continued not only to attend weekly, but continued to serve as a Lector. Everyone knew about the Divorce, and some knew about the filing for the Annulment (Declaration of Invalidity, technically). During that time I refrained from dating (a tough thing to do, but I was also busy otherwise, so it really did not bother me).
During the time of my Divorce, I was also serving as Grand Knight for my K of C Council. Everyone in the Council knew what was happening, and they were all very supportive. If I had done any dating during that time, I doubt any of them would have snubbed their noses at me, as they are not the sort of men who are judgemental towards others.
You have to decide for yourself what is best for you. I can only suggest that you take stock of your own life, and see where God has been good to you. It is probably not asking a lot for a person to wait a relatively short time, especially right after a divorce.
Pray on it, and ask God for His guidance. I’m sure He will tell you what you should do.

Peace.
 
You are not allowed to date. Kissing is definitely a no-no. If you can go to lunch or be somewhere that you are never alone together, I would think it would be alright to maintain a friendship with this person. Even though from what you said it is highly unlikely that the marriage was valid, you need to be prepared for the fact that your marriage might be found valid. Should this be the case, the pain and suffering involved from your separation from this individual could be intense. Is this something you want to put him through? If you are in a valid marriage and you develop a more intimate relationship with this person, you could be tempted to leave the church, which would not be good for either of your souls.

I hope this helps,
Galnextdoor
 
said:
I think He already has. I sent a long email explaining why we should not see each other anymore. It broke my heart to do so, because he seems to be the antithesis of my ex-husband. But I’ve got to put God first. Thank you all for your help.
 
You are not allowed to date. Kissing is definitely a no-no. If you can go to lunch or be somewhere that you are never alone together, I would think it would be alright to maintain a friendship with this person. Even though from what you said it is highly unlikely that the marriage was valid, you need to be prepared for the fact that your marriage might be found valid. Should this be the case, the pain and suffering involved from your separation from this individual could be intense. Is this something you want to put him through? If you are in a valid marriage and you develop a more intimate relationship with this person, you could be tempted to leave the church, which would not be good for either of your souls.

I hope this helps,
Galnextdoor
Gal, with all due respect, I think this type of situation calls for some more thinking. This is a young lady with 2 children. Now, her ex may take off for points unknown, and she would have no way of knowing if he is dead or alive. Clearly, there is no chance they will ever get back together, based on her initial posted message.
Now, suppose her ex is dead right now? Of course, if they had still been married, there would be no question that she would be free to follow her heart.
This is one of the problems with the rigidity of the Church. The marriage is ended. Kaput. If the Tribunal in her Diocese decides to dally on this, she…and her two children… could be stuck for life! That could have an enormous, long term negative impact on the three of them.
For what it’s worth, I’m not so sure I’d be so quick to condemn her and her children to such a situation. The long-term well-being of the children has to be paramount. A two-parent family is certainly much better for them than a 1-parent family!

Just an opinion, of course, with a human thought involved.
 
I am a convert. I was married in the church. At the time of our wedding, many problems existed, and those problems only got worse throughout the marriage. We had already had a baby, and another on the way at the time of my initiation ceremony and our wedding. Because of abuse and infidelity on his part, I divorced my husband and the divorce has been final almost a year now.

I met someone (who is Catholic) recently, and we have gone out to dinner a couple of times, which my priest said was ok. I am currently undergoing the process to get my marriage annulled through the church. My question is: am I allowed to date? Me and the man I met ended up kissing the other night, and now I wonder what is acceptable and what is not. Am I allowed to kiss another male? Am I even allowed to date during the annullment process? Someone please help me…I’ve put off seeing this guy again until I find out for sure.
You should not date until the Annulment is returned and final that the Marriage was invalid. Act as though you are still Married.
 
Gal, with all due respect, I think this type of situation calls for some more thinking. This is a young lady with 2 children. Now, her ex may take off for points unknown, and she would have no way of knowing if he is dead or alive. Clearly, there is no chance they will ever get back together, based on her initial posted message.
Now, suppose her ex is dead right now? Of course, if they had still been married, there would be no question that she would be free to follow her heart.
This is one of the problems with the rigidity of the Church. The marriage is ended. Kaput. If the Tribunal in her Diocese decides to dally on this, she…and her two children… could be stuck for life! That could have an enormous, long term negative impact on the three of them.
For what it’s worth, I’m not so sure I’d be so quick to condemn her and her children to such a situation. The long-term well-being of the children has to be paramount. A two-parent family is certainly much better for them than a 1-parent family!

Just an opinion, of course, with a human thought involved.
The long term well-being of the children is paramount. That is why their mother should be cautious and ensure she is in a state of sanctifying grace. BTW, the Church is not rigid; she is simply applying the truth taught directly by Jesus for the sake of our soul.

Also, I don’t think anyone is condemning them…simply offering solid advice for the overall well being of those involved.

If her ex-husband is dead, there will be absolutely no issue in the first place.
 
Here we have an example of a woman who married a catholic and converted into the RCC and there are many such similar examples.

Now there is a research to find out if the marriage was valid at all.

My question is:
If they should find out that the marriage was null, how does that affect the conversion?

Two persons living toghether in a non sacramental marriage can not participate in the eucharist, so if the marriage was null,does it mean that all the communions they participated in during their supposed marriage was illicit?

Should not the church have investigated this before the conversion to see if there was any problems?

My question is only hypothetical and has nothing to do with the original poster, it was just a thought that came to my mind.
 
Here we have an example of a woman who married a catholic and converted into the RCC and there are many such similar examples.

Now there is a research to find out if the marriage was valid at all.

My question is:
If they should find out that the marriage was null, how does that affect the conversion?

Two persons living toghether in a non sacramental marriage can not participate in the eucharist, so if the marriage was null,does it mean that all the communions they participated in during their supposed marriage was illicit?

Should not the church have investigated this before the conversion to see if there was any problems?

My question is only hypothetical and has nothing to do with the original poster, it was just a thought that came to my mind.
If on the surface, everything appeared fine, there would have been no reason to investigate it. However, before the marriage was blessed, they should have gone through
Pre-Cana classes. Where I’m from, she would have had to have a special dispensation to have the marriage blessed while she was pregnant. I know of someone in my church who was married by a judge. She became pregnant shortly afterwards and wanted to have her marriage blessed. The priest told her she would have to get a special dispensation from the Bishop in order for her marriage to be blessed while she was pregnant.
 
PastGrandKnight, As a fellow Knight I am disappointed that you would give advise to MARYBEKAH that clearly contradicts the churches teaching. You said “Just an opinion, of course, with a human thought involved.” MARYBEKAH already has the human thoughts and she would like to continue dating. But she is correct to be concerned. Friendship with a man is not wrong, but as she already suspects, it is clearly an opportunity to soon find oneself on the wrong side of the churches teaching. That’s why she asked in the first place. PGK, considering your own experiences you should know that MARYBEKAH needs to wait for an annulment before she considers dating anyone. If the annulment is not granted then it will be for good reason and MARYBEKAH will have to live with that. MARYBEKAH, if your not sure what to do, pray and follow the churches teachings. If your not sure what that is, talk to a priest. A mom who stays on the path to heaven, even when the going is tough, that’s in the best interest of the children.
 
PastGrandKnight, As a fellow Knight I am disappointed that you would give advise to MARYBEKAH that clearly contradicts the churches teaching. You said “Just an opinion, of course, with a human thought involved.”

And where is there a crime in saying: “Just an opinion, of course, with a human thought involved.”
She has to live in the 21st Century with two small children. Perhaps she is independently wealthy and has no need to work outside the home, but I have some doubts about that.

Maybe you are a fairly new Knight, one who has not gone through the Chairs in both the
3rd and 4th Degrees, and then served as a District Deputy. Maybe you’ve never served on your state’s Third Degree Team ( I do, as the “ADD”). But in all of our doings, we still teach “Family First”, even before Church or K of C. Why? Because taking care of one’s family is of paramount importance to the future of both the Church and to society in general. So whatever needs to be done to assure the long-term well-being of those children has to take precedence.

And you should know that!

And as you suggested, if the Tribunal should vote “no” on her petition, do you want her to be stuck forever in a state of poverty, being dependent on the charity of others (in this case, the state!)? Where will the money come from for their college educations? Will you personally guarantee the cost of their college educations? I doubt it.

Human beings make mistakes, and she made one when she ran into the man who was her first husband. Do not penalize her…and her children… for the rest of their lives.

As it is said: “Judge not, lest you be judged. Appearances are sometimes deceptive.”

By the way, to see how sharp you are: What is the 5th Commandment…correctly translated from Hebrew into English?

V.J.
 
Here we have an example of a woman who married a catholic and converted into the RCC and there are many such similar examples.

Now there is a research to find out if the marriage was valid at all.

My question is:
If they should find out that the marriage was null, how does that affect the conversion?

reply:
Excuse me, but why would that have anything to do with the Conversion? She came into the Church of her own free will, given to her by God.
I don’t believe that a real conversion takes place when a person joins a church just to satisfy the demands of a spouse or of the Church. Only when a person finds that such a conversion is the “right thing to do” is a conversion really valid. Anything else is just for show.
So, if we presume she came into the Church willingly, then the conversion is valid. And so is her acceptance of Holy Communion.

I have to wonder just how many “Judge Danforths” and “Judge Hathornes” we have out here in this forum. This young lady has done nothing to deserve the proverbial witch hunt, and yet questions are being asked here that are grossly unfair to her and her children. She asked one simple question, and now others are asking questions “Is this right?” or “Is that right?”. Why not just answer her question, and leave it at that?
 
The long term well-being of the children is paramount. That is why their mother should be cautious and ensure she is in a state of sanctifying grace. BTW, the Church is not rigid; she is simply applying the truth taught directly by Jesus for the sake of our soul.

Also, I don’t think anyone is condemning them…simply offering solid advice for the overall well being of those involved.

If her ex-husband is dead, there will be absolutely no issue in the first place.
And if her ex is dead, how is she supposed to know this for a fact? If he has moved away, I doubt anyone is going to email her with the news, or send her a copy of a death certificate. In theory, she could be wrongly stuck in this circumstance for the rest of her life, and that’s not fair!
 
rb437;5223148:
PastGrandKnight, As a fellow Knight I am disappointed that you would give advise to MARYBEKAH that clearly contradicts the churches teaching. You said “Just an opinion, of course, with a human thought involved.”

And where is there a crime in saying: “Just an opinion, of course, with a human thought involved.”
She has to live in the 21st Century with two small children. Perhaps she is independently wealthy and has no need to work outside the home, but I have some doubts about that.

Maybe you are a fairly new Knight, one who has not gone through the Chairs in both the
3rd and 4th Degrees, and then served as a District Deputy. Maybe you’ve never served on your state’s Third Degree Team ( I do, as the “ADD”). But in all of our doings, we still teach “Family First”, even before Church or K of C. Why? Because taking care of one’s family is of paramount importance to the future of both the Church and to society in general. So whatever needs to be done to assure the long-term well-being of those children has to take precedence.

And you should know that!

And as you suggested, if the Tribunal should vote “no” on her petition, do you want her to be stuck forever in a state of poverty, being dependent on the charity of others (in this case, the state!)? Where will the money come from for their college educations? Will you personally guarantee the cost of their college educations? I doubt it.

Human beings make mistakes, and she made one when she ran into the man who was her first husband. Do not penalize her…and her children… for the rest of their lives.

As it is said: “Judge not, lest you be judged. Appearances are sometimes deceptive.”

By the way, to see how sharp you are: What is the 5th Commandment…correctly translated from Hebrew into English?

V.J.
The question is about the moral teaching of the Church and dating while awaiting the outcome of an annulment process. The answer has NOTHING to do with a persons finances or social condition.
 
PGK,

As Br. Rich SFO stated:

“The question is about the moral teaching of the Church and dating while awaiting the outcome of an annulment process. The answer has NOTHING to do with a persons finances or social condition.”

Therefore it is pointless to further our discussion on who has been a knight longer, etc. etc.

Regardless of weather or not you, me, or anyone else likes it, the answer to the question is really simple. A married women can not date. MARYBEKAH is a married women. Sorry MARYBEKAH, the answer to your question is no. I’m sorry if that’s not easy to live with. Jesus claimed to be the way, not the easy way.
 
I think you did the right thing, but I wouldn’t cut ties off with him completely! Just don’t date. Let him know that as soon as the annulment is finalized, you can start dating again…
 
I think you did the right thing, but I wouldn’t cut ties off with him completely! Just don’t date. Let him know that as soon as the annulment is finalized, you can start dating again…
Now that is a strange advice, how can you know there will be an annulment at all?

Until a decision is reached the best thing to do is to regard it as there will not be any annulment at all, and that is more likely than that it will be granted.
 
anjoh66;5222984:
Here we have an example of a woman who married a catholic and converted into the RCC and there are many such similar examples.

Now there is a research to find out if the marriage was valid at all.

My question is:
If they should find out that the marriage was null, how does that affect the conversion?

reply:
Excuse me, but why would that have anything to do with the Conversion? She came into the Church of her own free will, given to her by God.
I don’t believe that a real conversion takes place when a person joins a church just to satisfy the demands of a spouse or of the Church. Only when a person finds that such a conversion is the “right thing to do” is a conversion really valid. Anything else is just for show.
So, if we presume she came into the Church willingly, then the conversion is valid. And so is her acceptance of Holy Communion.

I have to wonder just how many “Judge Danforths” and “Judge Hathornes” we have out here in this forum. This young lady has done nothing to deserve the proverbial witch hunt, and yet questions are being asked here that are grossly unfair to her and her children. She asked one simple question, and now others are asking questions “Is this right?” or “Is that right?”. Why not just answer her question, and leave it at that?
Hmm i saw your answers and your advices, i just wonder what your problem are.

How can you say to her to live in the 21st century and set the laws of the church aside?

About the conversion i clearly expressed that my question had nothing to do with the OP there are many similar examples out there and i am surely not blaming or judging anyone.

I simply asked if the previous eucharists would deem illicit, which i myself doubt as they was communicating with a clean intention.
 
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