Am I Alone In These Encounters?

[sadowa]

I have run into two of the most difficult situations concerning abortion regarding two of my neighbors, both men.

In one case the situation goes back to the days before Roe V Wade. This fellow’s cousin was denied an abortion to save her life and she in fact died because of this decision.

In the second case, a family friend, a younger girl was a victim of incest and forced to have her child and turn it over for adoption. She subsequently turned to drugs and killed herself through an overdose.

Both of these neighbors are Protestant to one degree or another. I see their view on abortion varies by congregation with respect to things like keeping women alive.

In both cases I was told an organization run by men The( Roman Catholic Church ) has no idea what it is like to face death through pregnancy and can easily assign such a death to women. One of them has used the scandals to raise the spectre of duplicity about "sexual issues.

It seems to just say something such as “God will look after these women.” Could come across as a hollow banging on a drum. Talking just to justify policy.

When speaking of abortion for other reasons it is easier to go after the casual irresponisble manner some couples have relations. Or, inside of marriage, how having more things takes precedents over having a child.

Finally I feel I come up short for answers in that these two neighbors are fathers, and good ones at that. I am single and have neverr been a parent nor put a woman thorugh a tragic difficulty. I am not priestly material either. In other words it seems they are willing to tell me these things, but do not value hearing Catholic’s opinion from one who is neither a parent nor a priest.

I wonder if I should let on I do not want to talk about these things at all if I am only to be a sounding board for complaints. Always vulnerable to the idea that"you wouldn’t know what I am talking about." because you are single. And lacking the authority to speak as a priest would.

Sincerely,

AC

 

[Eileen_T]

As far as I know, the Catholic Church does not have a problem with ‘abortion’ in order to save a mother’s life. It is referred to as the Doctrine of Double Effect.

Having survived an ectopic pregnancy, I felt as if I had allowed my baby to die in order that I might live. My priest, not a liberal by any means, educated me in what this meant.

The operation I underwent was performed to save my life. If it hadn’t, both I and my baby would have died. The primary intention was to save my life, the death of the baby was secondary.

In one case the situation goes back to the days before Roe V Wade. This fellow’s cousin was denied an abortion to save her life and she in fact died because of this decision.

Before Roe v. Wade, abortions were performed in the USA. If this is true it is tragic.

In the second case, a family friend, a younger girl was a victim of incest and forced to have her child and turn it over for adoption. She subsequently turned to drugs and killed herself through an overdose.

Many females who have been the victim of incest turn to drugs and are suicidal to mask their pain.

In being forced to give her baby for adoption, family were probably covering up and ignoring the incest just as today it is covered up by abortion.

Another thing to consider is this:
“Compared to women who have not been pregnant in the prior year, deaths from suicide, accidents and homicide are 248% higher in the year following an abortion, according to a new 13-year study of the entire population of women in Finland.” Read more here…afterabortion.org/news/suicide205.html

I have lost five babies due to reasons other than abortion and I have been suicidal, depressed and turned to alcohol to try to mask the pain.

The ectopic pregnancy; the daughter who was born too soon and died after only 5 hours (referred to by the hospital staff an a ‘spontaneoue abortion’) and the baby I lost at 14 weeks (who was flushed down the toilet) caused major trauma in my life.

This led me to post-abortion counselling and I have worked with women who, even losing only ONE child, had far greater pain than mine.

They hated themselves and were self-destructive. They regarded themselves as murderers. They put up with abuse, verbal, physical and sexual, from current and past partners because they believed they deserved it for killing their baby.

The Catholic Church is the reason I am alive today. It has given me a reason for living. It has also given me a reason, beyond myself and my petty concerns, for dying.

The ‘men who run it’ are answerable to God. This is a bogus argument in my opinion, akin to St Paul hating women. (LOL - As a woman I have always loved St Paul’s writings)

Sadowa, I know what I am talking about, both as a woman who has felt the pain of losing children, and a post-abortion counsellor who has heard the pain of many women.

Don’t let these men get to you. This is the sort of reasoning that condemns the Catholic Church, blaming Her for the deaths of AIDs victims, because of Her refusal to condone the use of condoms, while ignoring the fact that chastity, which is what the Church consistently teaches, saves lives.

As a woman I am proud to be a Catholic. I am a Catholic by conviction and I accept the authority of the Magisterium.

As a daughter, sister, wife and mother I am only too aware how fallible men can be. Even though the Magisterium consists only of men, BECAUSE of it even, I consider that very fact to be a sign of God’s Providence. He works with the little and the weak in order to show His Power and Glory.

After 33 years of marriage (yesterday) I just had to say that!!!

 

[BlindSheep]

I guess as a woman and a mother of three, I must be right in whatever I say on these issues!
What they are doing is an ad hominem fallacy: claiming what you say can be discounted because of who you are. There are plenty of pro-life women out there (I recall seeing a survey which showed more women than men were pro-life). I think the statistics also show married people are more likely to be pro-life.
They are also placing the blame on the pro-life movement for these women’s deaths, when it wasn’t the cause. The first woman died because of a pregnancy complication - natural causes. The second women because of drugs/suicide. The claim that abortion would have saved these women’s lives is not a certainty, and even if it were, “the ends do not justify the means” - we are not permitted to directly do evil so that good may come of it. If tthat were true, we could kill people for their organs, since the organs from one person could save the lives of several, right?

 

[allhers]

The Church is never okay with abortion. An ectopic pregnancy is not considered an abortion when a diseased tube is cut out of a woman, the fact that the child will die is still not an abortion. That is entirely a different thing altogether, and Eileen, your Priest was correct.
We may not do evil so that good can come from it. Only God could and did bring good from evil.
There are many wonderful prolife web sites that the original poster could go to in order to learn.
www.priestsforlife.org
also, there is a prolife search engine now,
go to
www.prolifesearch.com
enter pro life and many sites will come up.
one more soul is good, as is all, i will get the correct info for them and post it later.
You can use that search engine in place of others and it will benefit the pro life cause so that more will learn the truth.
I personally will never understand how anyone can believe that murdering a baby would solve anything for anyone.

 

[Madia]

Here’s some links that might help:

In one case the situation goes back to the days before Roe V Wade. This fellow’s cousin was denied an abortion to save her life and she in fact died because of this decision.

priestsforlife.org/media/interviewisajiw.htm

In the second case, a family friend, a younger girl was a victim of incest and forced to have her child and turn it over for adoption. She subsequently turned to drugs and killed herself through an overdose.

all.org/issues/argue14.htm
ewtn.com/vexperts/showresult.asp?RecNum=416981&Forums=10&Experts=0&Days=2004&Author=&Keyword=incest&pgnu=1&groupnum=0&record_bookmark=14&ORDER_BY_TXT=ORDER+BY+ReplyDate+DESC&start_at=

You might want to talk to people (such as those at priestforlife) who actually deal with rape/incest victims. Putting aside the fact that the deliberate killing of an innocent human being is an act that is intrinsically evil and can never be justified here’s some questions you might want to find answers to:

1. Doesn’t an abortion serve more to hide the tragic crime of incestual sexual abuse rather than expose it? Isn’t the crime more likely to continue if the victim has an abortion (and there’s no longer evidence of incestual sexual abuse)?
2. Pyschologically, does an abortion help a victim of sexual crimes at all? Isn’t an abortion just adding to the woman’s burden? If the woman has an abortion rather than dealing with the tramatic experience of sexual abuse (having evil done to her) she now has added the guilt of killing her child (doing something evil to someone else). Isn’t the pain of doing evil worse than having evil done to you? For example, what would make you feel worse: being raped by your best friend or you yourself raping your best friend? What would be a harder burden to live with? A woman who aborts a child conceived via sexual abuse not only has the pain of having evil done to her but the greater pain of having done evil to someone else.

The trouble you may find with pro-choice people is that they will justify an abortion in any case. If a woman commits suicide who was sexually abused and gives birth to a child the pro choice person might say “she committed suicide because she didn’t have an abortion not because she was sexually abused”. If you show that same person a list of people who committed suicide after they were sexually abused and had an abortion they then might say “they committed suicide due to the sexual abuse, not the abortion.” If you then show the pro choice person a list of people who weren’t sexually abused but had abortions and later committed suicide they might say “how do you know they committed suicide because they had an abortion? there’s many motives than go into suicide”. If you go back to the original topic and note that that person himself mentioned that there’s many reasons one committs suicide the person might say “if she didn’t have the heavy burden of giving birth to the child then she would have been less likely to commit suicide.” If you show facts that abortions add to a victims burdens and not subtract from them, the credibility of those facts might be called into question or the person might just rationalize them saying “that’s not what most woman feel after their abortions”.

So while you may want to arm yourself with facts on why abortion is an intrinsic evil in any case, if a person’s heart is hardened and will not accept the fact that abortion is intrinsically evil you’re better off letting the person go and praying for his heart to become open to the truth.

 

[marty1818]

If a women were to have a medical procedure(an abortion is not what I am refering to) done to save her life and the child dies in the procedure, it is not an abortion. The intent to kill the child was never there, it would be a risk that was taken to save the mother’s life.