Am I angsting too much over my female friends 'dissing' me?

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mrajax

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So it has been quite a long time since I wrote on these forums and I am glad to be back so hello everyone!

Thing is, these past two days I’ve gotten a huge depression over something that I am suspecting I’m overreacting to. What happened was this: I attended a party (more like a dinner) with my friends at the martial arts club and I had a great time, everyone talked to me etc… it happens that whilst I have not admitted it, partly out of shyness and partly because I don’t think I am suitable for her, I really, really like one of the girls attending my club. I think we are a bit close when it comes to casual friends; we don’t have each others phone numbers and in fact, I don’t have anyones phone numbers either. We talk and we share a lot of jokes and we talk about our interests but not much else. Almost everyone is close to each other at the dojo

It happens that when the party ended, she and her friend (whom I’m also friends with, practically on the same level if friendships do have levels) gave hugs to the other guys at the party but they only gave me a a simple handshake. They even gave hugs to a guy that has only been attending the dojo for the last 2 months (I’ve been attending for more than a year). I’ve been thinking about the meaning behind this and no, I didn’t say anything like ‘No hugs?’ etc…

I’ve been thinking on how close we really were as friends and what I’d have to do in order to be ‘eligible’ to be given something like that. At the same time, I do think I’ve been overthinking it and frankly, its not like anyone has any obligation to give me hugs or any affection. I just don’t know what to do.

I’ve also been thinking a lot on my own feelings of loneliness. In the past few months, I’ve made friends and I’ve gotten closer to more people. In fact, I was extremely happy when my own sensei introduced me to really high levelled sensei, calling me their ‘new student’ and having a ton of fun when they held out of dojo activities like group lunches etc… at the same time, I’m not in the least bit close to the people of the college that I am attending; they don’t hate me, its just that no one there shares any of my own interests and they aren’t really mature for me to able to share conversation with them. At the same time, sometimes I feel that I’m not close to anyone at all; I feel that nobody knows who I really am, that I never really discuss anything about my self. I feel that if I were to discuss my own problems of loneliness, if I were to divulge my feelings and seek advice I would force people to look at me with contempt. Because of this and because I don’t want to hurt anybody I’ve been keeping to myself alot, thinking a lot of depressing things and here I am, not knowing what course of action to take. I know it is a perverse belief to take, all I’m aksing is what I should do.
 
I’m really, really sorry that you’re going through this and I hope you find the courage to move past it.

That said, I’m going to give you some advice, which may or may not be applicable to the situation depending on what kind of people those girls/other people who are ‘dissing’ you are. Maybe the other guys got hugged not because they liked them more or found them more attractive, it could be that either the other guys initiated this hug, or previous hugs, or somehow else broke the ‘touch barrier’ and so the girls felt more comfortable doing it. Maybe you just weren’t giving off a vibe that a hug was appropriate and so they didn’t know the best way to approach it. I’m not saying that’s what happened. There are superficial people in the world, I won’t lie, but there are good people too, if we just make the leap to put ourselves out.

I’m not saying that you’re doing this, but I know when I was younger ( During my high school years and during my freshman year of college) I would make the excuse that no one shared my interests or that no one was on my level of maturity just so I’d have a pretext not to approach people and put myself out there because I was afraid of being rejected, or afraid of how people might see me.

It took me until I became an adult with some years of the college social environment under my belt to realize that no one, not even the most beautiful, the most smart, and the most athletic amongst us, can escape rejection. Rejection is a part of playing the game. You miss one hundred percent of the shots you don’t take, so it’s better to just put yourself out there. For as many people who reject you, there are just as many who will accept you with open arms. The caveat, of course, is that you have to legitimately be looking for them and placing yourself in many situations where they can find you.
 
If you feel very strongly that your friends are disrespecting you. Pray for them, and remove them from your circle of friends.
 
I wouldn’t take something like that too personally. It could be that you consider the relationship to be a closer friendship than they do.
 
Maybe you don’t look like a hugger.

I have to say that in these days of cell phones and social media, if you don’t have somebody’s contact info, I don’t think you’re really friends yet. Friendly acquaintances, maybe, friends, no. I think it’s possible that you’re overestimating how close you are to these people.

Continue to enjoy your martial arts and maybe instigate occasional dinners out together as a group–you might take it upon yourself to collect emails from everybody and attempt to organize a monthly group dinner. If you discover a good Asian place, that might be a great pretext.

Don’t be creepy!

doctornerdlove.com/2011/12/dont-be-a-creeper/all/1/

whatever.scalzi.com/2012/08/09/an-incomplete-guide-to-not-creeping/

(warning–some bad language)

Best wishes!
 
Maybe they hugged those guys because they view them as potential boyfriend material and the hug was a way of getting the guys attention for a few seconds to show them that they are interested in them…

If that was the case then they likely didnt hug you as they view you as a friend rather than a potential boyfriend
 
Firs toff, thanks for your replies everyone. To clarify some things, the guys didn’t initiate the hugs, the girls did and secondly as I said, I don’'t think that I have any ‘right’ ro receive hugs from others.

Xantpipe, whilst those articles are good there is one thing that I don’t like about them and it is this ‘tone’ that views women as some type of different creature, as if she is always going to be afraid of getting raped, etc… I know girls and they don’thave that attitude. Its not to excuse any ‘creepiness’ that I may have had because I know that it is wrong.

Secondly, I don’t think they view them as boyfriend material seeing as one of them is rather senior in agecompared to us.

Maybe they don’t view me as that close of a friend but what I don’t understand is how they would hug a guy they met only a month or two before whilst I’ve spent a longer time with them. Maybe they knew him before? I don’t know.

To clarify one thing though it should be obvious, I’m not someone who is so immature that he’ll pick up petty fights over something like this. I mention this because the country where I come from, both the girls and guys will fight and break up with their loved ones over the pettiest of reasons. I’m beyond those trivialities. I think I am a bit jealous or envious because the girl I love didn’t give me a hug you know. Its wrong of me but I’m still searching for guidance.
 
mrajax said:

“Xantpipe, whilst those articles are good there is one thing that I don’t like about them and it is this ‘tone’ that views women as some type of different creature, as if she is always going to be afraid of getting raped, etc… I know girls and they don’thave that attitude.”

In normal social settings, “I’m trying to figure out whether or not you are dangerous to me,” is not said, but it is part of the social subtext.

Imagine if 50% of the people you met were six inches taller than you, 50 pounds heavier, considerably stronger than you even if the same weight, capable of doing you immense harm with relatively little exertion on their part, and also at the same time well known for being more physically aggressive. Wouldn’t that 50% worry you just a little bit, even if you actually liked many of them?
 
You’re overthinking this one. You’re taking things too personally that shouldn’t need to be taken so personally.

There’s a fair amount of non-verbal communication that goes on in all social contexts. It’s possible you’re giving off a no-hug vibe. I don’t have any hard proof, but I’m pretty sure that in my younger days, it was rare for others to initiate hugs with me. Now it’s not so rare. Think my biggest change is that I no longer worry about what others think, I’ve turned that over to God, I’ve internalized this handover and I think there is a social non-verbal context that comes out of that which helps others subconsciously see me as okay to hug. Just a theory, mind you… but I can say it’s not easy to get to that mindset and make it stick. As a fallen sinner, I do backslide once in awhile.
 
You can’t make someone like you, but you can avoid letting someone wreck your day (often unwittingly), let alone weak, month, year etc. Don’t think about it, and don’t promise yourself much of a friendship with someone who singles you out for the most restrained greeting of everybody in your social circle.

Sometimes people have practical reasons, sometimes something puts them off, at other times they read a vibe that tells them to play it cautious. Someone who knows you’re attracted might be keeping distance because of that (whether on purpose or subconsciously).

In any case, don’t dwell on it.
 
Guys, something else is bothering me quite a bit; would it be wrong to try deepening my friendship with someone? I’m not saying trying to groom this girl as my girlfriend, no, thats sick and wrong and selfish, I’m just saying trying to make people more comfortable around me, to enjoy my company more and to make them feel that I can be trusted. I don’t know, something inside me tells me that I shouldn’t do this because maybe, just maybe, I’m doin git for selfish reasons but another thing tells me that I should because I’m not trying to use or harm anybody.
 
As noble as it is to not want to hurt people, if it is overdone, it can really make others feel creepy. Also, it is a very sad catch 22 situation because the only way to cure loneliness is to make friends and no one wants to be friends with a lonely person. In that sense my hear goes out to you.

And I will let you in on how someone women think (admittedly it is not a holy way to think but women are sinners).

I love hugging men and I love when it is on my terms. I love to initiate the hug because it gives me control over the situation. And when I was younger hugging older men was cool because I got my hug and they did not read anything into it.

Reading your posts reminds me of a guy who use to drive me home from mass. He wanted to be the good Catholic and never offend me. He was also very lonely and I suspect had a crush on me. He was the LAST man I would ever hug because I was petrified if I did, the next day he would propose. And yes, I remember flirting with other men around him. Part of me felt guilty because I knew it made him feel left out. The other part of me resented his presence because I wanted to have my 5 minute flirt with a guy and did not feel he could prevent that.

I don’t expect anything I have said to cheer you up. It is just letting you know how some women think so you can decide your best course of action

Angie
 
mrajax said:

“Guys, something else is bothering me quite a bit; would it be wrong to try deepening my friendship with someone?”

How about you practice on guys or women you have only a platonic interest in? (With the women, you may need to stick to group interactions to prevent misunderstandings.)

“Girlfriend” is the advanced social course.
 
mrajax said:
Guys, something else is bothering me quite a bit; would it be wrong to try deepening my friendship with someone? I’m not saying trying to groom this girl as my girlfriend, no, thats sick and wrong and selfish, I’m just saying trying to make people more comfortable around me, to enjoy my company more and to make them feel that I can be trusted. I don’t know, something inside me tells me that I shouldn’t do this because maybe, just maybe, I’m doin git for selfish reasons but another thing tells me that I should because I’m not trying to use or harm anybody.
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There is nothing wrong with being friendly and there is nothing wrong with asking a girl out who you are interested in.

However if you really think or talk about things like “grooming someone to be my girlfriend” than I can see why girls might think you are a bit weird (if not creepy). That’s just an odd way of thinking about getting to know someone better.
 
Anglewannabe said:
As noble as it is to not want to hurt people, if it is overdone, it can really make others feel creepy. Also, it is a very sad catch 22 situation because the only way to cure loneliness is to make friends and no one wants to be friends with a lonely person. In that sense my hear goes out to you.

And I will let you in on how someone women think (admittedly it is not a holy way to think but women are sinners).

I love hugging men and I love when it is on my terms. I love to initiate the hug because it gives me control over the situation. And when I was younger hugging older men was cool because I got my hug and they did not read anything into it.

Reading your posts reminds me of a guy who use to drive me home from mass. He wanted to be the good Catholic and never offend me. He was also very lonely and I suspect had a crush on me. He was the LAST man I would ever hug because I was petrified if I did, the next day he would propose. And yes, I remember flirting with other men around him. Part of me felt guilty because I knew it made him feel left out. The other part of me resented his presence because I wanted to have my 5 minute flirt with a guy and did not feel he could prevent that.

I don’t expect anything I have said to cheer you up. It is just letting you know how some women think so you can decide your best course of action

Angie
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Actually thanks angle, your post does clarify some things. For one thing, maybe the reason you’d never have hugged that guy could be that you didn’t trust him. Maybe the possibility of him having a crush on you prevented you from doing so and you didn’t want to hug him because you just were not attracted to him. There is nothing wrong with that; if you’re not attracted to a person it’s not a bad thing. If you had hugged him and he misinterpreted it as a sign that you are attracted to him that’s his fault for not considering you.

If you flirted with other men you were attracted to, as long as you didn’t do it to deliberately hurt him (which I doubt lol, I’m not pointing fingers or anything), it’s your choice and you did notihng wrong. If my friends didn’t want to hug me, its their choice, I have no right to their hugs and love no matter how much I may love them and they can’t be faulted of that in any way. Maybe its the fact that we’ve clashed but very lightly in the past because of some moral andpolitical views that hold (they’re very liberal in their ideology whilst I’m really conservative), maybe its because I did tease them over things they were scared of(I still apologized A lot, maybe its because their first exposure to me as a person was during the times I was extremely socially awkward and afraid. Maybe I shot myself in the foot and they can’t imagine me being somebody else other than a lonely geek. I don’t know, maybe its all of them.

I think my real problem has less to do with these women not being attracted to me so much as me feeling left out or the possibility that someone may hold negative thoughts against me or the idea that outside of being in some group activities nobody ever thinks of me. I’m going to say it, I honestly believe that I have no right to anyones love. If nobody wants to be my friend, if nobody wants to invite me to their parties, activities , if nobody wants to talk to me etc… that is absolutely 100% fine. But I don’t desire it so I’m constantly doing things to get people more attracted to me. I have absolutely no difficulty talking to people, least of all these girls. I’m just scared that I may end up failing no matter what I do.
 
Mrs_Sally said:
There is nothing wrong with being friendly and there is nothing wrong with asking a girl out who you are interested in.

However if you really think or talk about things like “grooming someone to be my girlfriend” than I can see why girls might think you are a bit weird (if not creepy). That’s just an odd way of thinking about getting to know someone better.
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I spoke against such a thing…
 
mrajax said:
Actually thanks angle, your post does clarify some things. For one thing, maybe the reason you’d never have hugged that guy could be that you didn’t trust him. Maybe the possibility of him having a crush on you prevented you from doing so and you didn’t want to hug him because you just were not attracted to him. There is nothing wrong with that; if you’re not attracted to a person it’s not a bad thing. If you had hugged him and he misinterpreted it as a sign that you are attracted to him that’s his fault for not considering you.

If you flirted with other men you were attracted to, as long as you didn’t do it to deliberately hurt him (which I doubt lol, I’m not pointing fingers or anything), it’s your choice and you did notihng wrong. If my friends didn’t want to hug me, its their choice, I have no right to their hugs and love no matter how much I may love them and they can’t be faulted of that in any way. Maybe its the fact that we’ve clashed but very lightly in the past because of some moral andpolitical views that hold (they’re very liberal in their ideology whilst I’m really conservative), maybe its because I did tease them over things they were scared of(I still apologized A lot, maybe its because their first exposure to me as a person was during the times I was extremely socially awkward and afraid. Maybe I shot myself in the foot and they can’t imagine me being somebody else other than a lonely geek. I don’t know, maybe its all of them.

I think my real problem has less to do with these women not being attracted to me so much as me feeling left out or the possibility that someone may hold negative thoughts against me or the idea that outside of being in some group activities nobody ever thinks of me. I’m going to say it, I honestly believe that I have no right to anyones love. If nobody wants to be my friend, if nobody wants to invite me to their parties, activities , if nobody wants to talk to me etc… that is absolutely 100% fine. But I don’t desire it so I’m constantly doing things to get people more attracted to me. I have absolutely no difficulty talking to people, least of all these girls. I’m just scared that I may end up failing no matter what I do.
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You sound kind of insecure. I mean, I am, too, so I’m not judging you. But I think all of this worrying isn’t very good for you. It’s not what other people are drawn to- and, more importantly, it’s not how Jesus wants you to feel! 🙂

The thing is, you don’t have any idea why these two women chose not to hug you. Every woman is different, and they can have lots of different motivations. I’m a girl, and I just don’t really like hugging people. More than a high-five with either gender is something I would rather avoid, unless I’m really, really close to someone. Obviously, that’s not the case with these women, but it does serve as a reminder that they could have lots of concievable motivations. And, you could be like me and unknowingly be giving off “does not want to be touched” vibes. In my case the feeling is accurate, but maybe people are getting that feeling from you even though you do like hugs. It’s a possibility.

I would be more likely to hug someone who wasn’t potential relationship material, to be honest. You mentioned that one of the guys was older than you. Frankly, I’d be more willing to hug an old man than a young man that I was semi-friends with. When you hug an older man, it’s nothing. When you hug someone who could potentially like you, you get this. You seem to be of the opinion that hugs definitely mean something, and it’s possible that they picked that up and didn’t want to deal with potential complications. 🤷

So. If you ask me, you don’t sound like you did anything wrong, and neither do your friends. It’s not shallow to decide against hugging someone just because you do not want to hug him, even if you can’t offer an explanation why. While it is very wise of you to continue paying attention to their reactions (to see if they are comfortable with you, avoiding you, etc.), I don’t think you can form many conclusions just from what you told us.
 
I think you may be reading too much into things.

Some people are not “huggers”. There is a book about “love languages”. I have not read it but the gist is that people express affection in different ways.

I was never a hugger although I am not uncomfortable with it for people that like to express themselves that way. Thus, outside of family, I did not get hugged a lot even when I was dating – until after I started dating someone. Thus, a girl may not necessarily hug someone who is not a “hugger”. She may still be interested, or not.

It is also good that you are in martial arts. It is a good confidence booster as long and you are not getting pummeled too badly. If you don’t fit in to this school, you can always try another. However, don’t over react. No group is perfect.

I listened to NPR tonight about a book that I also just ordered. The book was about dealing with adversity (Redirect). The perspective is more of a social change than a personal self help book. The book used the example of young people starting college and having difficulty making friends. It was helpful for the young people to hear the perspective of others, so they realized that this is a very common problem. It does get better. Just keep being yourself, develop your talents, be nice to others and you will find your niche.

I had the same problem in school especially since I started college at age 16. I was too young for most groups.

I will say that weekly Mass attendance was a source strength for me. So since you are here, always feel welcome to just check out your local church.

Good luck
 
mrajax said:
Actually thanks angle, your post does clarify some things. For one thing, maybe the I honestly believe that I have no right to anyones love. If nobody wants to be my friend, if nobody wants to invite me to their parties, activities , if nobody wants to talk to me etc… that is absolutely 100% fine. But I don’t desire it so I’m constantly doing things to get people more attracted to me…
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You are right in the sense that you can not demand love from someone. However, you don’t seem to understand God wants you to have good friends and although you can not choose the particular person, their are some people out there who do want to be your friend. You seem to think you need to change instead of realizing you just need to be your self and go for different people
 
Anglewannabe said:
You are right in the sense that you can not demand love from someone. However, you don’t seem to understand God wants you to have good friends and although you can not choose the particular person, their are some people out there who do want to be your friend. You seem to think you need to change instead of realizing you just need to be your self and go for different people
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Heres the thing: I know these people want to be my friends because they always talk to me and they always welcome my company. In fact, this martial art and because everyone there accepted me despite my social weaknesses were the reasons I became so much more confident. I t’hink my problem is more with the idea that maybe I did something wrong to them or the idea that I may give off this non-hug vibe that bothers me. I feel that I love my friends too much and I can’t love them less. I want to make more friends yes, it’d be very unhleathy to both parties to reject potential friends in order to only keep the current ones that you have. But friends aren’t there to keep you company when you’re bored, friends are supposed to be deeper than that, All I want is assurance that I can at least be loved. It takes proper judgement though; what if I was a dangerous type of person behind this computer screen? (which I’m not btw) How can people truly judge what type of person I am just by reading all this?

Writing this, I realize that yes, I am insecure, very, very insecure. I’malways saying disparaging things against myself in order to make people feel suprior to me, always doing things to make people think better of me, that somehow by telling them to be careful of me as I am a stranger I will make them feel safer aorund me. Maybe I’m trying to make myself look and feel worse as a person in order to not look upon other people in a worse light because they never invite me out or never initiate a conversation with me. Becuase that is how things are, nobody asks me to hang out, ever, at all, and I’ve rarely had anyone initiate a conversation with me. 95% of the time I’m the one who has to initiate a conversation and even then, I’m always trying to find out what others like or what they have been up to in order to show them that they are interested. I do this to everyone, men and women included.

To not ask anyones help is a perverse thing to do and this fear of loneliness, this acceptance of the idea that I may end up all alone in the future is what is destroying me on the inside. Look sorry about my ranting but I now know what on earth is wrong with me. I’m too insecure. I have too much self loathing, too much anger built up on the inside because of all the ******* abuse I had to udnergo throughout my life. Maybe thats why I am so insecure, because I have nobody to talk to, nobody to discuss my problems with. Maybe I do need a psychologist or maybe I need to grow an even bigger spine. **** it, I’m not afraid to admit that I’ve been emotionally abused by various people throughout my life. I am not afraid to admit that I’ve been sexually harassed at school by various school bullies because there is notihng wrong with being a victim of sexual harassment. You know, thats what I need to do, help others who suffered the same things I had to go through, admit that I had to go through such things instead of keeping it up bottled inside. I need to drop this ******** idea that I can’t be loved. I just don’t know what to do, I need advice.
 
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