Am i asking too much?

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aggiecatholic05

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so i have a bit of a problem. i think i am not only in theright but above and beyond, my wife thinks i am in the wrong. since we’ve just been going in circles for a few weeks i thought id seek a different perspective, because i could be wrong.

so my father in law is a an alcoholic, admittedly, but he refuses to quit. his refusals include being kicked out of 2 rehab centers because he wouldnt do anything but sleep and eat. and these werent the low end places. he wouldnt evn go unless it was where he wanted, and each trip bankrupted their family, and arose suspicion of philandering while he was away.

for nearly two decades he was physically and verbally abusive to his children, to the point that 3 of the 4 are still scared of him today even though they are all grown and out on their own.

i have more but thats enough backstory for now. on to the issue at hand.

we went donw the week before christmas so everyone coulkd see the baby, exchange presents, eat and all that. i thought i was already being nice because they changed they date 3 times on me in the month prior and each timei just agreed and cancelled my other comitments.

we went all went well. they morning we were leaving my wife and i got into an argument, a heated one at that. it lasted maybe 5 minutes and that includes the time it took us to cool down apologize and be done with it.

well a minute or so later my father in law pulls me into the other room and berates me for 10 minutes on what i do wrong and concludes with that if i dont treat his daughter better he will "put me in the ground’. he had been drinking.

i saw that i had two options. out of love for my wife i ignored #1 and didnt have him arrested. i chose #2 leave(we were going anyways) but make it clear that my daughter and i would not be under the same roof as him again until i got an apoogy. once recieved i would drop it and be like it neve happened.

well apparently im the only one who thinks this is reasonable.

am i worng? and if so why? and what should i do?
 
What does your wife want ya to do? Act like nothing happened? Need to know that to see where to go next.
 
aggiecatholic05 said:
so i have a bit of a problem. i think i am not only in theright but above and beyond, my wife thinks i am in the wrong. since we’ve just been going in circles for a few weeks i thought id seek a different perspective, because i could be wrong.

so my father in law is a an alcoholic, admittedly, but he refuses to quit. his refusals include being kicked out of 2 rehab centers because he wouldnt do anything but sleep and eat. and these werent the low end places. he wouldnt evn go unless it was where he wanted, and each trip bankrupted their family, and arose suspicion of philandering while he was away.

for nearly two decades he was physically and verbally abusive to his children, to the point that 3 of the 4 are still scared of him today even though they are all grown and out on their own.

i have more but thats enough backstory for now. on to the issue at hand.

we went donw the week before christmas so everyone coulkd see the baby, exchange presents, eat and all that. i thought i was already being nice because they changed they date 3 times on me in the month prior and each timei just agreed and cancelled my other comitments.

we went all went well. they morning we were leaving my wife and i got into an argument, a heated one at that. it lasted maybe 5 minutes and that includes the time it took us to cool down apologize and be done with it.

well a minute or so later my father in law pulls me into the other room and berates me for 10 minutes on what i do wrong and concludes with that if i dont treat his daughter better he will "put me in the ground’. he had been drinking.

i saw that i had two options. out of love for my wife i ignored #1 and didnt have him arrested. i chose #2 leave(we were going anyways) but make it clear that my daughter and i would not be under the same roof as him again until i got an apoogy. once recieved i would drop it and be like it neve happened.

well apparently im the only one who thinks this is reasonable.

am i worng? and if so why? and what should i do?
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My brother got drunk at our wedding and told my husband just what he would do to him if he ever hurt me. Now keep in mind the only reason my brother was at the wedding was because I HAD to invite him. We don’t get along and are not close. My hubby just smiled and walked away. He told me about it, but it never went any further. I honestly don’t think my brother remembers it either. I would try to let it go. If he says something like that to you again, without you and your wife having a fight,then I would state your complaint. I would limit how much time the family spends with him, not just because of this, but because of the drinking. That’s not something you want your children around. Try not to run your FIL down to your wife. Even though he was awful to her as a child, it’s still her daddy and she not going to want to feel like you are making her choose between the two of you.
 
or option # 3, which usually becomes necessary at some point if you have an alcoholic in the family, stay away, on holidays or any other time, if he is going to be around. You play bad guy it gets your wife off the hook, “We would come, Ma, but big bad hubby won’t come of Pa is going to be there, call me sometime when he is not around and we will bring the baby.”

I’ve had centuries of practice be happy to give pointers on how to distance yourself from toxic relatives.
 
aggiecatholic05 said:
so i have a bit of a problem. i think i am not only in theright but above and beyond, my wife thinks i am in the wrong. since we’ve just been going in circles for a few weeks i thought id seek a different perspective, because i could be wrong.

so my father in law is a an alcoholic, admittedly, but he refuses to quit. his refusals include being kicked out of 2 rehab centers because he wouldnt do anything but sleep and eat. and these werent the low end places. he wouldnt evn go unless it was where he wanted, and each trip bankrupted their family, and arose suspicion of philandering while he was away.

for nearly two decades he was physically and verbally abusive to his children, to the point that 3 of the 4 are still scared of him today even though they are all grown and out on their own.

i have more but thats enough backstory for now. on to the issue at hand.

we went donw the week before christmas so everyone coulkd see the baby, exchange presents, eat and all that. i thought i was already being nice because they changed they date 3 times on me in the month prior and each timei just agreed and cancelled my other comitments.

we went all went well. they morning we were leaving my wife and i got into an argument, a heated one at that. it lasted maybe 5 minutes and that includes the time it took us to cool down apologize and be done with it.

well a minute or so later my father in law pulls me into the other room and berates me for 10 minutes on what i do wrong and concludes with that if i dont treat his daughter better he will "put me in the ground’. he had been drinking.

i saw that i had two options. out of love for my wife i ignored #1 and didnt have him arrested. i chose #2 leave(we were going anyways) but make it clear that my daughter and i would not be under the same roof as him again until i got an apoogy. once recieved i would drop it and be like it neve happened.

well apparently im the only one who thinks this is reasonable.

am i worng? and if so why? and what should i do?
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Having seen family alcoholism close when I was younger, the only wrong thing you are doing is offering to let it be like it never happened, because this is what enables the cycle to continue.

I can also tell you that until some significant event happens, most families of alcoholics tend to think of such things as normal, deserved, etc. and they play the “cover it up” game, and the cycle continues and only gets worse. It is possible that your wife is still at that stage.

You are NOT being unreasonable in not being under the same roof. In fact, you are acting as a proper husband and father. Remember, YOU are their PROTECTOR, and maybe when you feel the circumstances warrant it and she is open, you need to make it unmistakenly clear to your wife.

I do not know what your FIL means by treating your wife better; I don’t know if there are legitimate concerns or they are just imaginary (which is often the case with alcoholics). However, you would have been well within your rights to have him arrested, since you were threatened with grave bodily harm / death. In fact, that may be the only thing that gets through to his head, and I would suggest that the next time it happens and you feel you can make charges stick, go ahead and have him arrested, and explain to him, your wife, and and any other necessary parties that he has used up all his free passes. It will especially be necessary to have the police reports as documentation to back you up, because you may need to take legal action in the future to ensure your daughter’s safety.

Also, who is in better physical shape, you or your FIL? Would you be able to physically defend yourself if he tried to physically harm you, your wife, or child? Also, since by the “aggie” in your screen name I assume you are in Texas, does he have firearms at home? If so, definitely keep your family away, and having him arrested might force him to surrender his firearms, depending on the laws where you are at.
 
You are trying to reason with an unreasonable man.

IMO- you and your wife need to discuss what you will do, and it doesn’t involve any action from FIL.
 
Let it go. He is a sick man who will probably die sooner than later. Your poor wife has totally gotten the short end of the stick father-wise - THIS I know of firsthand. Was he out of line? Totally. Would you be justified in saying you never want anything to do with him again? Sure. But what would that do? Cause your poor wife even more grief because her jerk of a father.

My opinion - forget about it. My own alcoholic father used to do that kind of stuff all the time - drove me nuts and I’d swear to never speak to him again… eventually I’d come back around. He died three years ago… what I wouldn’t give for one more day.
 
I don’t think you are being unreasonable at all, but I doubt you’ll ever get an apology out of the man. He probably didn’t remember what he said to you 10 minutes after the incident.

You are, of course, the man in your family now–not your wife’s absentee father. You have every right (and the responsibility) to take care of your family. If you don’t mind me asking, how does your wife feel about the possibility of not being around him anymore?

My husband has a brother (a militant athiest) that we no longer see. Our priest told us that just because he is a family member does not mean we are obligated to spend holidays with him. We pray for him, but we haven’t spent a Christmas or Thanksgiving with him in years.

I’ll pray that this works out for you and your wife without the two of you having to argue about it. 🙂

udoc89
 
first off thanks for the replies.

my wife wants me to drop it, but her mother is pushing that i apologize for making an issue of it.

personally if it werent for the threats id go with option 3, but i think its gotten past just at holiday time avoiding him. luckily we have almost 5 hours betwen us so a random encounter isnt too likely.

my motherin law is the queen of denial. i have been trying to avoid that, but i do try to alwasy give A second chance, screw that up and i have cut out people before and would do so again. the treating her better was in reference to our argument, apparently i shouldnt have done that(i think for a married couple with a baby 1 argument between thanksgiving and new years isnt too bad). and if it were to happen again i would call the cops in a heart beat, ive made that clear to my wife.
he is about 50 out of shape and in fairly poor health from his drinking, he even had a stroke a few years back. im 25 and not what i was a few years ago, but still stronger than average, also i got in more fights than im proud of in highschool so yeah i can handle it. i think he has a deer rifle(but who doesnt).

my wife and i are discussing it, thats part of why this is here. she read it after i typed it, we’re trying to get some outside opinions.

for the record ive told my wife if she still wants to see him she can, but as of now i think i could stick to not seeing him with out putting myself out any.

my wife doesnt want to cut him out, i dont plan to make her. i dont think not remembering it is an excuse.

i think i got everybody in there. so any follow up?
 
Hi, my name is Leslie K. and I am an alcoholic.

One of the toughest things I ever had to face was the damage I did to my family during the days I was drinking and drugging. It took years for my family to forgive me (verbally, it took all of five seconds but in reality I was six years sober for any of them were able to relax around me) and it took even longer for me to come to terms with the havoc I raised.

Your wife and her family have been horribly damaged by the alcoholic they love. You are not only dealing with a sick man, you are dealing with a very sick family. It is going to take a man of heroic virtue to be able to deal with the situation with love, tolerance and patience - none of which, by the way, means you have to put up with verbal abuse and the threat of physical violence.

You need, in my opinion, to make it very clear to your wife that you love and respect her father but you will not subject her or your child to this type of behavior. If you are not on the same page, you need to get on the same page. She will try and convince you that you are wrong to want to put loving distance between your family and the craziness that is alcoholism. It is because this is how she survived. She knows no other way.

May I suggest you get some literature from Al-Anon, perhaps even your own copy of the Big Book of AA and read up a bit on the disease and the coping strategies of those who have learned to live healthfully with someone who is a practicing alcoholic? You will be happy to discover the incredible role members of the Catholic Church played in the early days of the 12 step recovery movement. From Jesuit priests to Augustinian nuns, my life today is good because of the prayers and actions of good, solid, non-alcoholic people - none of which allowed people like me to get away with bad behavior.

I can understand your mother-in-law too. But if I were you, I would talk directly to the alcoholic. I would say (as was said to me), “I appreciate that you love your daughter, my wife. I know you want to be a good father and grandfather. I also want to be a good father and a good husband. I don’t want us to be angry with each other. I am not asking you to do anything at all. However, I am telling you that my first priority is to protect my wife and my children and I cannot knowingly put them in any danger. As much as I love you, when you are drinking you are dangerous.”

When someone had the nerve to tell me that I could do whatever I wanted, but that they were going to do whatever they had to do to keep themselves safe from me…well! That was one of the small pushes I needed to get me on the road to recovery.

And last May, I celebrated 16 years of continous sobriety.

You are in my prayers.
 
I don’t know what your mother-in-law refers to as “issue” and I don’t know how exactly you behaved after that incident, what you told your wife and what you told her mother, therefore I can’t say with 100% certainty that you don’t owe an apology for something.

However, in my book, you don’t owe an apology to your father-in-law and you don’t owe an apology for the way you handled him or for leaving the house. In my view, your mother-in-law shows one of three types of behaviour: 1) “he can do no wrong” denial, typical of some mothers of aggressive children, 2) terrorised behaviour in which whoever upsets the tyrant bears the blame for the outburst that will come, 3) expecting you to be a big person but not expecting the same of him.

Suffice to say I’ve seen some such behaviours in my life. Actually, plenty of them. They often hurt me more than the behaviour of those who did me direct harm. I sometimes caved in and accepted the blame. I often ended up the black sheep for days instead of the real offender who’d get away with a minute or two of being told off. To this day I deeply distrust people who seem to have a problem with me and I go to great lengths to dismantle anything I see as an accusation. You don’t want this to happen to your daughter. You don’t want it to happen to you, either, and I’m pretty sure it can happen to an adult person too. My advice is don’t allow yourself to be told that you are to blame when you are not. But be careful not to alienate your wife. You will need to talk to her rather than curtly refuse the blame and go on. I sometimes do that and people resent me afterward. You need to explain your actions - but use as few words as possible because no one who thinks you guilty will like or even listen carefully to your defence speech. And I hope your wife doesn’t put the blame on you for the incidents with her father.
 
No you’re not wrong…but unless this man sobers up-you will never get an apology either. To understand your wife’s position-she has been brought up in this “family disease” and she is used to walking around the white elephant in the living room as they say. She is most likely a co-dependent…show me anyone who deals with an active substance abuser in the family who is not. You have a healthy foundation and boundries for self-respect-she does not. It sounds like this disease has complete control over the whole family…maybe you & your wife may want to go to some al-anon meetings-follow the program and use their 12-step program. Good luck and I’ll be praying for you and your family.
 
My father was an alcoholic, and every time I would bring it up with my mother about his abuse to her, she would almost slap me for it, and I would drop it… I was told it was adult business blah blah blah blah…

Growing up with it and sticking up for your mother after she got beat wasn’t a fun hobby for me. BUT I can tell you this every time I would hear her bring it up when he was ready to drink or even before then, it was always “woman you know I love you I would never hurt you what are you talking about?! You are ranting crazy!!”

So she would tell him things like “I warn you, you touch me again and I am leaving with the kids!!”

After I decided to try some alchy when I was 16, drank myself almost unconscious, my father quit drinking… I think if I would have never had the curiosity to try what all the fuzz was about he would have never stopped, but he did this on his own… No one not even my grandparents could talk him out of it…

Whenever he would talk out of place everyone would just ignore him because he was DRUNK and didn’t know what he was saying…

No one ever took anything he said to heart not even my mother after getting beat up…

Sober that man couldn’t hurt a fly!!! And he’s the most caring father in the world…

The best thing I can tell you is forgive and forget… Maybe he does feel that way about you that he will “put you in the ground” if you ever hurt his daughter… Believe me I bet most dads feel that way about men hurting their little girls, even if they are not little any more. My dad felt that way about my ex for many years but he stopped with his daddy thing and left us to deal with our own issues alone…But that doesn’t mean he will literally “put you in the ground” that was just the alcohol talking…

If he ever attacks you like that again sober then yes, definitely bring it up again and make sure you let him know exactly how you feel. But until then, let this one pass. I bet you he doesn’t even remember what he said nor what he did that night!!! Just talk to your wife and let her know how you feel about the whole situation and that you are going to be the bigger man and let it go for this once…

If it happens again though let her know you will speak with him about it.

God bless and good luck!
 
I suggest you and you wife attend Al-Anon. You can get some great help there.
 
Well I am going to play Devil’s Advocate here and ask the question not yet posed –

How, exactly, were you treating your wife in the argument you chose to have in front of her parents? Were you calling her names? Did you put her down? Insult her? Say horrible things?

Alcoholic or not, when someone sees their child put down or verbally assaulted sometimes they step up and try and help said child. You offended him by hurting his child. He took care of it.

I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, it just is. It happened. You probably will not get an apology. As far as the mother saying YOU owe an apology, I also want to ask exactly how you behaved after Dad confronted you? It seems by your post you made a scene. So that is two scenes involving you within a matter of minutes. Maybe you do owe an apology, I don’t know 🤷 – but you can only apologize for YOUR behavior.

I would really like to hear what your wife’s version of the situation is. I’m sure she is really hurting. Now she’s stuck between a rock and a hard place, stuck between pleasing you and possibly losing her parents. Naturally her first responsibility is to you, but if you were wrong and you actually started this whole thing, it is pretty unfair to ask her to give up her parents from here on out for you. See what I mean?

As far as the man’s alcoholism, well you can’t change it. You can change your attitude towards it. If he wants to sober up he will, if he doesn’t – nobody can make him, nor compel him. You can avoid drunken obnoxiousness by visiting earlier in the day and cutting out before the drink hits him hard.

So as to who or how or when one apologizes, my advice to you is to drop the whole “I am so right, I am BEYOND right” attitude and take a good look at yourself. As though you were observing someone else’s behavior. Think about it well, and then decide what part you own in this, and how you should make it up to your wife. If that means apologizing for fighting with her in front of her family, then man-up and do it. Apologize where you feel it’s necessary.

Then just take my advice please – don’t fight with your wife in front of people anymore. K? 🙂 Good luck and prayers with you both. These kind of snags are pretty common in marriage. It’s a good sign you are both working towards making it better, together. That’s awesome! 👍
 
aggiecatholic05 said:
so i have a bit of a problem. i think i am not only in theright but above and beyond, my wife thinks i am in the wrong. since we’ve just been going in circles for a few weeks i thought id seek a different perspective, because i could be wrong.

so my father in law is a an alcoholic, admittedly, but he refuses to quit. his refusals include being kicked out of 2 rehab centers because he wouldnt do anything but sleep and eat. and these werent the low end places. he wouldnt evn go unless it was where he wanted, and each trip bankrupted their family, and arose suspicion of philandering while he was away.

for nearly two decades he was physically and verbally abusive to his children, to the point that 3 of the 4 are still scared of him today even though they are all grown and out on their own.

i have more but thats enough backstory for now. on to the issue at hand.

we went donw the week before christmas so everyone coulkd see the baby, exchange presents, eat and all that. i thought i was already being nice because they changed they date 3 times on me in the month prior and each timei just agreed and cancelled my other comitments.

we went all went well. they morning we were leaving my wife and i got into an argument, a heated one at that. it lasted maybe 5 minutes and that includes the time it took us to cool down apologize and be done with it.

well a minute or so later my father in law pulls me into the other room and berates me for 10 minutes on what i do wrong and concludes with that if i dont treat his daughter better he will "put me in the ground’. he had been drinking.

i saw that i had two options. out of love for my wife i ignored #1 and didnt have him arrested. i chose #2 leave(we were going anyways) but make it clear that my daughter and i would not be under the same roof as him again until i got an apoogy. once recieved i would drop it and be like it neve happened.

well apparently im the only one who thinks this is reasonable.

am i worng? and if so why? and what should i do?
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You are not wrong, and I am a woman!!! When a man and woman marry, they leave their parents and join with their spouses. This is not a “does not apply on some occasions” rule. All couples argue, and the fact that you and your wife had an argument, and reconciled with each other should be between the both of you. How did the father find out, and how is it any of his business? If your wife is spilling your private matters to her Dad, that is betrayal in my opinion, and she needs to stop undermining you, as her husband, and be more respectful of the vow she has taken with you. I’m very sorry she experienced an abusive childhood…many of us have…however, you move forward and have God in your marriage. You do not cling to past, negative behaviors.
 
LSK said:
But if I were you, I would talk directly to the alcoholic. I would say (as was said to me), “I appreciate that you love your daughter, my wife. I know you want to be a good father and grandfather. I also want to be a good father and a good husband. I don’t want us to be angry with each other. I am not asking you to do anything at all. However, I am telling you that my first priority is to protect my wife and my children and I cannot knowingly put them in any danger. As much as I love you, when you are drinking you are dangerous.”
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Agree with this 100%.

I’m also a little concerned with the “I’m not going back until I receive an apology” thing. I completely understand, but have found that apologies that are “demanded” usually aren’t worth the breath it takes to speak them. I would rather have no apology than one that was contrived.

Kathy
 
KathyA said:
Agree with this 100%.

I’m also a little concerned with the “I’m not going back until I receive an apology” thing. I completely understand, but have found that apologies that are “demanded” usually aren’t worth the breath it takes to speak them. I would rather have no apology than one that was contrived.

Kathy
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I agree with you Kathy. However, I would also not want to put my family in a toxic environment on purpose?
 
dianaballein said:
I agree with you Kathy. However, I would also not want to put my family in a toxic environment on purpose?
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Right. What happens if he does, for some reason, aplogize, but then continues the drinking? The “condition” for returning has been met, but nothing has changed.

Both of my parents were alcoholics. Anyone who has dealt with these issues knows the pain involved. I tried my best to “protect” my children from that atmosphere while still trying to nurture a grandparent/grandchild between them. I established some pretty firm boundaries–a time or two we made a very abrupt departure from their home. This was easy because they lived in the same town. Sounds like OP had to travel and that makes it difficult. Still, now that my older kids are 19 & 17, they can see the strain that alcoholism has placed on my relationship with my parents, but appreciate that they can still know and love their grandparents in ways I simply can’t.

Kathy
 
KathyA said:
Right. What happens if he does, for some reason, aplogize, but then continues the drinking? The “condition” for returning has been met, but nothing has changed.

Both of my parents were alcoholics. Anyone who has dealt with these issues knows the pain involved. I tried my best to “protect” my children from that atmosphere while still trying to nurture a grandparent/grandchild between them. I established some pretty firm boundaries–a time or two we made a very abrupt departure from their home. This was easy because they lived in the same town. Sounds like OP had to travel and that makes it difficult. Still, now that my older kids are 19 & 17, they can see the strain that alcoholism has placed on my relationship with my parents, but appreciate that they can still know and love their grandparents in ways I simply can’t.

Kathy
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Ah ok, I see what you mean. You have a very valid point.
 
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