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Cristiano
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Are you saying that people would not do wrong if there were no words to describe it?
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paddy22
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No, you aren’t being hard headed. Don’t externals matter in the Church? There is a reason we genuflect toward the tabernacle, and there is a reason why we bow to the altar if the Blessed Sacrament is not present. Why cast those reasons aside? A bow still shows reverence, albeit a different kind if the tabernacle is not there.
Also, I believe there is a reason behind placing the Blessed Sacrament in a side chapel in large cathedrals/basilicas - heavy traffic, avoiding disrespect to the Lord present in the Eucharist by crowds. I think it is highly recommended that the tabernacle be present behind the altar in parish churches. It is not just a traditionalist argument, so it shouldn’t be painted as such.
Also, I believe there is a reason behind placing the Blessed Sacrament in a side chapel in large cathedrals/basilicas - heavy traffic, avoiding disrespect to the Lord present in the Eucharist by crowds. I think it is highly recommended that the tabernacle be present behind the altar in parish churches. It is not just a traditionalist argument, so it shouldn’t be painted as such.
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valentino
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Priests missions are to save as many people as they can.The Church does give much leeway in how they are to bring this about.All priests are unique individuals as are all of us.Many times priests are heretical to those of us who are brought up in a certain tradition in regards to how masses,ect. are to be officiated.Lately it does seem to be rather extreme in the many changes in which services are conducted from one church to the next.people are afraid that the Church is becoming to individualised and losing its fundamental roots.one has to remember that the very Latin traditional Mass is not lost all though it is seldom practiced today.Now I don’t know whether these changes are having a positive effect or not but I trust in God’s providence that there are good reasons for them.One has to remember although the Mass arrived at its present form after centuries of fine tuning and have varied little over the passed 1200 yrs.the first 800yrs had many changes to get to the present form.The Eucharist which is the main part of the Mass is still considered the essetial part is still celebrated in each parish.i don’t think it would be to serious if we replaced our 1200yr. traditional mass and gradually introduced new prayers,ect.I like the traditions but I’m 6o.Young kids may be attracted to Church more if these changes are introduced.I hope they don’t lose the real love of God that most of us feel in the process.The Tabernacle is kept in a small chapel behind the main area and altar. The prior parish priest instructed the congregation to bow to the altar, and genuflecting upon enter a pew was not required. The wife and I are just not comfortable with this arrangement. Therefore, we still genuflect and grumble about architectural barriers to adoration and respect.
For reference, we finally obtained a really nice Crucifix for the main chapel, after decades. I swear (wait, I can’t do that here)…I think the church was designed by a protestant heretic.We also have a band behind the alter, but that a story for a different thread.
Am I being hard headed?
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Pakesh
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HelenRose
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The hard-headed traditionalist. I like the sound of that. Let me compare this to my gentle, soft spoken sister-in-law who is a brilliant math professor. If someone tried to tell her that 2+2 = 5 you would then see a very hard-headed mathematician. She would never - ever accept that as reality. Yet, she would be firm, gentle and kind.The Tabernacle is kept in a small chapel behind the main area and altar. The prior parish priest instructed the congregation to bow to the altar, and genuflecting upon enter a pew was not required. The wife and I are just not comfortable with this arrangement. Therefore, we still genuflect and grumble about architectural barriers to adoration and respect.
For reference, we finally obtained a really nice Crucifix for the main chapel, after decades. I swear (wait, I can’t do that here)…I think the church was designed by a protestant heretic.
Am I being hard headed?
A traditionalist must always ask himself or herself. What is it that I am wanting to achieve? If the answer is to show forth the beauty of tradition. Then it is wise not to be sarcastic and insulting no matter how foolish or wrong the people are around us. Would it not be better to daily spend time in adoration in the small chapel. Show your love for the Eucharist rather than grumbling in disdain for those with whom you disagree.
With hard headed but gentle patience love those around you and do your best to love them into loving the body, blood, soul and divinity of the Eucharist.
Let the father of all lies use anger, insults, sarcasm in order the twist and turn the truth into lies.
He is the expert in that field.
Let us be experts in using love, intelligence, patience and firmness to do God’s will.
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wsxyz
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No. St. Peter’s Basilica, like other major Roman Basilicas has dozens of altars and chapels. Many Masses are celebrated all at the same time on these altars. In the afternoon, the church is filled with tourists.
Having a separate chapel for the tabernacle is a practical measure that makes it possible for the church to be used in all the different ways it is while also accommodating those who wish to go spend quiet time with Our Lord.
I am not arguing that the tabernacle must always be on the high altar of every parish church, although that is certainly a very good place for it to be. But to claim that St. Peter’s should be the model for every parish church is nonsensical because parish churches are not used in the same way that St. Peter’s is.
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Little_Dove
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Having read through this thread, I have to say, for the first time in my 50 years as a Roman Catholic and very dedicated to the Magesterium, I belong to a parish that has never caused me distress. Instead, everything is done so well, so reverently, adding nothing which should not be added and taking nothing away which should be there. Being from the West Coast, I didn’t think I’d like the East Coast at all, but living in the Arlington diocese has been such a balm to my soul. My hope is that Benedict XIV will continue to live for a long time, and continue to appoint holy bishops in America! Hopefully, we will see a wave of truly Roman Catholic Churches!
Oh and…our tabernacle is front and center. If you have Jesus, truly present, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, in a PARISH church, why wouldn’t He be front and center? If our protestant brothers and sisters could receive the gift of the knowledge of the true presence of Jesus, I’ll bet that’s where they’d place Him!
Oh and…our tabernacle is front and center. If you have Jesus, truly present, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, in a PARISH church, why wouldn’t He be front and center? If our protestant brothers and sisters could receive the gift of the knowledge of the true presence of Jesus, I’ll bet that’s where they’d place Him!
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FAB
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Thank you for agreeing. the reason that parish church’s with adoration chapels do not have the tabernacle behind the altar is for this exact reason, to give quiet time to spend with the Lord.
A seperate chapel off of the main naive allows for this quiet time 24/7, they have an outside entrance, and it doesn’t open the main church up the theft of vandalizm.
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cothrige
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I never understand why being quiet in a church is such a bad or impossible thing that we have to move our Lord out to another room. It makes sense in cathedrals or historic basilicas and the like, but why a parish church?
It reminds me of something that used to go on in a previous parish we were in. They used to have doughnuts in the church after Mass each Sunday, and in order to avoid being disrespectful towards the reserved Sacrament they would remove it from the tabernacle after Mass and put it in a disused confessional/storage closet instead. I suppose this was seen as a more appropriate choice than just eating doughnuts in another room. I often wondered what holidays were like at these people’s houses. “Now, little Billy, your grandpa is very old and we are in his house, so you would normally need to be very respectful around him. But, fortunately we locked him in the bathroom, and so you don’t have to worry about it.”
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OraLabora
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Fron the Catholic Encyclopedia, circa 1909:
Source: Genuflexion
At our local Benedictine monastery, when entering the conventual church either in procession or individually, the monks bow at the altar prior to entering their stalls; the tabernacle is in a side chapel. Whenever the Blessed Sacrament is exposed or present on the altar, the monks genuflect. When the schola takes position in the center of the choir to chant, they genuflect in unison if and only if the Blessed Sacrament is present. The monastery is “traditionalist” in that Gregorian chant is still used daily at Mass, and Lauds and Vespers are in Latin. However they celebrate the OF Mass.
It’s not being a hard-headed traditionalist to genuflect to the altar when the Blessed Sacrament isn’t there. It is simply being wrong by ignoring the tradition of the Church. The idea is… apart from the Cross on Good Friday, one does not commit an act of adoration to an inanimate object, but one does for our Lord made truly present on the altar.
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Kielbasi
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Some pretty fine and traditional Catholic churches were designed by “protestant heretics” like Ralph Adams Cram , an episcopalian “high priest of neo-gothic” during the early part of the 20th century.I think the church was designed by a protestant heretic.
I don’t think you can tell the religion of the architect by the appearance of his work.
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TrueLight
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So does that mean there are two different sacred hosts?
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wsxyz
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It means the tabernacle contains a ciborium with consecrated hosts, and in the chapel there is a monstrance with a large host for adoration. I assume the host in the monstrance comes from the tabernacle on the altar, but I don’t know for sure.
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cothrige
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Our church has two entirely separate tabernacles. One is in the main church and there is another in a side chapel, and neither have adoration. I have wondered if this was licit, but never looked into it.
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TrueLight
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Maresiedotes
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It seems to me that if you can see the tabernacle light, then you should genuflect. Otherwise, I guess it depends on the architecture of each individual church.
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Holly3278
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Our tabernacle is off to the side a little bit but it is in clear view. I personally wish it was front and center. However, ours is installed in the wall and has been for as long as I can remember. But then again, I’ve only been Catholic since 2006 so I don’t remember it before about 2005 or 2006. I wish that they could remove it from the wall and replace it with one in the middle of the sanctuary.
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FAB
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It is in many cases. So the Church in it’s wisdom gives parishes that option, perhaps it is better to follow that wisdom, than to battle it.
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FromTheAshes777
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yep this is also the case with two parishes in my area, the two head pastors are both excellent and very orthodox priests. I think this is the best arrangement for a typical parish church.
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