Am I being disobedient?

[SpiritFire]

Hi.

Just a few weeks ago I made a decision during a Friday Mass to receive Holy Communion kneeling and on the tongue.

WOW! It was so much more amazing to experience. I don’t think I’ll ever receive in the hand again

I also know that the bishops have proclaimed the norm for reception to be standing. I am
one of the few in my parish who receives on the tongue and certainly the only one that kneels.
I thought at the time (since I am taller than Father) that kneeling would be both traditional, reverent and maybe facilitate COTT, so Father wouldn’t have to reach up or I squat slightly.

Nonetheless, I sometimes feel I call attention to myself which may come across as “look at me, I’m doing it so much better than all of you”, which is absolutely NOT my intention or feeling.

Am I doing disrespect to the Bishops’ decision? I really feel it’s a wonderful way not only to “be traditional” (and my parish is considered to be one of the most conservative in the area) but to express to others my profound “Eucharistic amazement” and belief in Transubstantiation and the Real Presence.

Any thoughts? Anyone in a similar situation?

Thanks and peace be with you all!

 

[puzzleannie]

you are not being disobedient unless your priest directs you to stand.

 

[Myqyl]

Perhaps you should talk to your priest and ask if there might be a place set aside for those wishing to Kneel to receive. There are usually several places this could be done in most churches. Let him know you want to not draw attention or look “holier then thou”…

Perhaps that might encourage others to try it.

Just a thought

God bless

 

[St_Francis]

I would do what you are doing, except that I wouldn’t be able to get back up on my own (old knees!) but I receive on the tongue. I agree with you about the reverence.

And in fact, this is something which used to be taught: as both physical and spiritual beings, what we do with oir bodies has an effect on the soul, just as what we do with one part of oir body has an effect on other parts.

 

[TheMc]

Hi.

Just a few weeks ago I made a decision during a Friday Mass to receive Holy Communion kneeling and on the tongue.

WOW! It was so much more amazing to experience. I don’t think I’ll ever receive in the hand again

I also know that the bishops have proclaimed the norm for reception to be standing. I am
one of the few in my parish who receives on the tongue and certainly the only one that kneels.
I thought at the time (since I am taller than Father) that kneeling would be both traditional, reverent and maybe facilitate COTT, so Father wouldn’t have to reach up or I squat slightly.

Nonetheless, I sometimes feel I call attention to myself which may come across as “look at me, I’m doing it so much better than all of you”, which is absolutely NOT my intention or feeling.

Am I doing disrespect to the Bishops’ decision? I really feel it’s a wonderful way not only to “be traditional” (and my parish is considered to be one of the most conservative in the area) but to express to others my profound “Eucharistic amazement” and belief in Transubstantiation and the Real Presence.

Any thoughts? Anyone in a similar situation?

Thanks and peace be with you all!

There’s nothing disobedient about kneeling. The holy father is actually encouraging people to kneel, starting at his Masses.

Now one word of advice: people will possibly slam you and tell you the “norm” in the US is standing. Indeed that is true, but when this “norm” was passed, it was made clear that this norm does not mean you must stand. The CDWDS (the “liturgy office” in Rome) said clearly:
the faithful should not be imposed upon nor accused of disobedience and of acting illicitly when they kneel to receive Communion

God bless, and keep it up!!

 

[paperwight66]

There’s nothing disobedient about kneeling. The holy father is actually encouraging people to kneel, starting at his Masses.

Have you watched any of his public Masses on tv? During his visit of the UK, the only people I saw kneeling were those receiving directly from him.

So what makes you say this?

 

[MarkThompson]

All the following will assume that you’re int he U.S.; I have no idea what the rules for other countries are (which makes it important not to be confused about things like what the Holy Father “encourages” elsewhere, since one must know the relevant norms in those countries). Let’s look at where the U.S. rule comes from. In Eucharisticum Mysterium (1967), the Holy See directed:
In accordance with the custom of the Church, Communion may be received by the faithful either kneeling or standing. One or the other way is to be chosen, according to the decision of the episcopal conference, bearing in mind all the circumstances, above all the number of the faithful and the arrangement of the churches. The faithful should willingly adopt the method indicated by their pastors, so that Communion may truly be a sign of the brotherly union of all those who share in the same table of the Lord.
This is, of course, reflected in the universal text of no. 160 of the GIRM (not the one you see on the USCCB site, which has the American adaptations already put in):
Fideles communicant genuflexi vel stantes, prout Conferentia Episcoporum statuerit.

The faithful communicate kneeling or standing, according as the Conference of Bishops shall have determined.
The U.S. bishops submitted their local rule for approval, which says:
The norm for reception of Holy Communion in the dioceses of the United States is standing. Communicants should not be denied Holy Communion because they kneel. Rather, such instances should be addressed pastorally, by providing the faithful with proper catechesis on the reasons for this norm.
Some people try to tell you that the word “norm” here just describes what people "norm"ally do; i.e. that it “is descriptive, a statement of fact. It doesn’t sound at all like a law.” This is completely mistaken. First of all, the U.S. norm was adopted in accordance with Eucharisticum Mysterium and the GIRM, both of which direct the bishops to select one posture for the people to follow, and neither of which asks the bishops to do a survey of what is normal and, for some reason, enshrine the poll result in law. Second, the word “norm” in these context clearly means “an authoritative standard; a principle of right action binding upon the members of a group,” which is why no. 5 of Redemptionis Sacramentum (2004) reiterates:
The observance of the norms published by the authority of the Church requires conformity of thought and of word, of external action and of the application of the heart.
The word “norm” does not refer to a survey result in any relevant Church context; it refers to a rule requiring conformity.

At the same time, it is for the Church to determine how strict she will be in enforcing norms. In the case of kneeling for Communion, the Church has decided for pastoral reasons that people “should not be denied Holy Communion because they kneel.” It’s clear that this was not supposed to turn the rule laid down in the previous sentence into some sort of pointless suggestion, since the priest is still directed to collar you after Mass and give you some reeducation.

In sum, the Church has empowered bishops’ conferences to select either kneeling or standing – “one or the other way is to be chosen” – and told the faithful that we “should willingly adopt the method indicated.” In pastoral generosity, the Church has also decided that this norm is not to be enforced by withholding Communion or accusing people of wrongdoing “when they kneel.” That is to say, there is no need for the heartbreak and consternation that would be caused by having a confrontation right then and there in the middle of Communion. Rather, the priest is called to explain the matter to you afterward.

Everyone who chooses to kneel when the bishops’ conference has chosen for them to stand should at least be aware that they are refusing the direction in Eucharisticum Mysterium to “willingly adopt the method” laid out, and are withholding from “the observance of the norms” the “conformity of thought and of word, of external action and of the application of the heart” which Redemptionis Sacramentum expects.

 

[TheMc]

Have you watched any of his public Masses on tv? During his visit of the UK, the only people I saw kneeling were those receiving directly from him.

So what makes you say this?

I meant to say "starting at his ‘station’ " not “… His Masses”. My mistake.

 

[baltobetsy]

I would simply caution the OP against chasing after an “amazing experience.” Mundane obedience to norms is often more pleasing to God than a flood of feelings.

 

[benedictgal]

Actually, the OP is not being disobedient. There is one document from the CDWDS that no one seems to have carefully examined.

In July 2002, the CDWDS wrote that:

This Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments has recently received reports of members of the faithful in your Diocese being refused Holy Communion unless while standing to receive, as opposed to kneeling. The reports state that such a policy has been announced to parishioners. There were possible indications that such a phenomenon might be somewhat more widespread in the Diocese, but the Congregation is unable to verify whether such is the case. This Dicastery is confident that Your Excellency will be in a position to make a more reliable determination of the matter, and these complaints in any event provide an occasion for the Congregation to communicate the manner in which it habitually addresses this matter, with a request that you make this position known to any priests who may be in need of being thus informed.

The Congregation in fact is concerned at the number of similar complaints that it has received in recent months from various places, and considers any refusal of Holy Communion to a member of the faithful on the basis of his or her kneeling posture to be a grave violation of one of the most basic rights of the Christian faithful, namely that of being assisted by their Pastors by means of the Sacraments (Codex Iuris Canonici, canon 213). In view of the law that “sacred ministers may not deny the sacraments to those who opportunely ask for them, are properly disposed and are not prohibited by law from receiving them” (canon 843 ¶ 1), there should be no such refusal to any Catholic who presents himself for Holy Communion at Mass, except in cases presenting a danger of grave scandal to other believers arising out of the person’s unrepented public sin or obstinate heresy or schism, publicly professed or declared. Even where the Congregation has approved of legislation denoting standing as the posture for Holy Communion, in accordance with the adaptations permitted to the Conferences of Bishops by the Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani n. 160, paragraph 2, it has done so with the stipulation that communicants who choose to kneel are not to be denied Holy Communion on these grounds.

Here again, a year later, the CDWDS notes that:

This Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments has received your letter dated December 1, 2002, related to the application of the norms approved by the Conference of Bishops of the United States of America, with the subsequent recognitio of this Congregation, as regards the question of the posture for receiving Holy Communion.

As the authority by virtue of whose recognitio the norm in question has attained the force of law, this Dicastery is competent to specify the manner in which the norm is to be understood for the sake of a proper application. Having received more than a few letters regarding this matter from different locations in the United States of America, the Congregation wishes to ensure that its position on the matter is clear.

To this end, it is perhaps useful to respond to your inquiry by repeating the content of a letter that the Congregation recently addressed to a Bishop in the United States of America from whose Diocese a number of pertinent letters had been received. The letter states: "…while this Congregation gave the recognitio to the norm desired by the Bishops’ Conference of your country that people stand for Holy Communion, this was done on the condition that communicants who choose to kneel are not to be denied Holy Communion on these grounds. Indeed, the faithful should not be imposed upon nor accused of disobedience and of acting illicitly when they kneel to receive Holy Communion".

I hope this helps clarify things. When I go to Mass at the local monastery, I do kneel to receive.

 

[SpiritFire]

To Benedictgal:

Quote:
Indeed, the faithful should not be imposed upon nor accused of disobedience and of acting illicitly when they kneel to receive Holy Communion".

Does this include for an extended period of time on my own decision? My pastor did talk with me (or rather, my Dad conferred the message) and he said he was not shocked or dissatisfied and advised me to go down on my knees in a more gentle manner (apparently I dropped pretty hard those first few times, and there are no kneelers)

He also asked me if I knew I was the only one who knelt in the entire parish community and that this would potentially “look odd” or “separate” me from the practice of the community, which I was fully aware of.

It’s not my intention to look “holier than anyone else” though.
All in all, I think he looks kindly upon my decision and if he wants to say anything else about it, (like STOP) I’m fine with that.
He’s a very “solid”, orthodox priest and really knows what he knows and what he is about.
I trust him to let me know if something is inappropriate.

It’s also in his knowledge that I know more than the average Catholic kid my age and that I have good artistic taste especially when it comes to music, and he often respects that in the comments he makes to me.

Thanks everyone for the replies, too

@ Baltobetsy, notice that I wrote “amazing TO experience”. Holy Communion is always an active miracle (an “experience”, if you will) whether we “feel” it or not.
Wouldn’t you agree?

Thanks again.

 

[Domnall]

Being a young adult who kneels to receive communion…I feel the same way you do sometimes.

However, I have had nobody mention anything to me about kneeling for communion, and I’ve done it at 4 different churches. My pastor, whom I am very friendly with, has not mentioned anything about it during any time I’ve spent talking with him.

Just a tip though, when kneeling for communion, try kneeling on one knee (like genuflecting.) So, you can both kneel and not be obstructive to the flow of communicants.

God bless