P
PJM
Guest
Please help me out on this.
Is bashing Catholism the same as bashing God Himself?
How and why?
Is bashing Catholism the same as bashing God Himself?
How and why?
- Status
E
Eucharisted
Guest
No it isn’t. Bashing God is to bash God. Bashing religion is to bash man’s exercise of justice.
R
Roman_Catholic_1
Guest
Well lets see. In Acts Christ is recorded as saying to Paul; "And he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”…And he said, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting" Acts 9:4-5. Of course Paul was persecuting the Church and here Christ equates that persecution with the persecution of Himself.
So do you consider “bashing” along the lines of persecution
If you do then the answer is clear. If you don’t then the answer is only clear as mud 
God bless
T
tomarin
Guest
Doesn’t it depend on the context? Does criticizing the bishops for their involvement in the priest sex abuse scandal, for example, amount to “bashing,” or is it legitimate or even one’s duty to criticize the Church (or aspects of it) in certain circumstances? Does it matter if the criticism is of the “pious” or “impious” variety?
I’m inclined to think that the Church is an institution that is distinct from God and that even though it is the Bride of Christ the Church is not and must not be off-limits to legitimate criticism.
R
Roman_Catholic_1
Guest
Hmm great point
We should first come to a consensus on what the definition of “bashing” is. I put forward Wikipedia’s definition:
Bashing is a harsh, gratuitous, predjudicial attack on a person, group or subject.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bashing_(pejorative)
Therefore criticizing, if done without prejudice, I would not believe to be “bashing”.
But since I am not the OP, I will let that person say what they meant by, “bashing”.
God bless you
P
Publisher
Guest
To critcize an organization, religious or otherwise, of abuse or wrong conduct, no matter how “noble” the institution believes itself to be is not “bashing God”…to ignore abuse and violence done upon individuals at the hands of any religious organization IS “bashing God”.
Paul served the Jewish High Priest and elders in his persecution of those people called Christians…to cause harm and pain and suffering to others is to “bash God” as each of us is made in His image and bear within ourselves His “mark”.
T
tomarin
Guest
God bless you as well.
Point taken, but it seems to me that there are some people who will consider any criticism of the Church, just or not, to be bashing – that is, they are overly defensive because the Church is subject to a lot of undeserved criticism from secularists and members of other faiths day in and day out (at least it seems unjustified to me most of the time).
What confuses me is what to do with criticism that comes from the wrong crowd (i.e. the ones who are inclined to gratuitous and prejudicial criticism) but is nevertheless to some degree just and deserved, as proven by the fact that faithful catholics level it themselves. I’m concerned not to give the impression that a criticism is just if faithful catholics articulate it, and not if the gratuitous crowd engages in it. You shouldn’t have to be “in the club” to have a criticism.
I guess the answer lies in doing a certain amount of thinking for oneself.
R
Roman_Catholic_1
Guest
True, which is why I hope PJM returns to tell us his/her definition of ‘bashing’ and what was meant when it was used. Whether it is justified criticism or prejudiced bashing that he/she means.
God bless
P
PJM
Guest
I was by intent vague and careful in the words I chose. I’m curious about how ones feels about God and Church. For example, can these two terms be seperated for discussion or are they co-joined to a degree that the terms are nearly synomous? In which case bashing one is the same as bashing the other.
By “bashing” I mean negative, derogatory, unsupported or unnecessarly unkind language, in a personal view that at times ignores facts.
Love and prayers,
S
StrawberryJam
Guest
You would have to explain your position in order for anyone to really see the logical part.
P
PJM
Guest
":
I thought that I did in post #10:shrug:StrawberryJam, post:11, topic:169358"]
You would have to explain your position in order for anyone to really see the logical part.
S
StrawberryJam
Guest
Well, since I think catholics believe the church is human and divine, I suppose a catholic could view it as both depending on the context of the remarks.
Personally, I’ve seen catholics state to non catholics that their refusal to believe in Mary’s perpetual virginity is a slap in the face to God and, I know it is a hot topic but come on.
In a case like that, I would look at the intention of the person and realize they also love God.
Your question is a trap question, basically.
C
Cluny
Guest
Keep in mind that the people running the visible part of the earthly church are NOT the totality of the Church.
And remember what Fulton Sheen said, “Millions hate what they think the Catholic Church teaches.”
And remember what Fulton Sheen said, “Millions hate what they think the Catholic Church teaches.”
S
StrawberryJam
Guest
I like Fulton Sheen, if it matters.
L
leonie
Guest
I believe that since the Church is the body of Christ, that bashing the Church is bashing God.
But, I hope that those who do so are speaking out of ignorance and not malicously.
In that case, I know it offends God, but is not a deliberate sin.
The members of the Church of course should, however, be open to correction. We are called upon to admonish the sinner. So, we can call upon corrupt clergy to repent while still respecting the sanctity of the Church.
But, I hope that those who do so are speaking out of ignorance and not malicously.
In that case, I know it offends God, but is not a deliberate sin.
The members of the Church of course should, however, be open to correction. We are called upon to admonish the sinner. So, we can call upon corrupt clergy to repent while still respecting the sanctity of the Church.
C
ClydeW
Guest
It isn’t hard to believe that Mary was not a perpetual virgin since she had other children. She could not have remained a virgin. She had other children and the Bible even names them. That’s just one of those things Roman Catholics want to believe even though there is no Scriptural basis for it at all, quite the contrary James, the Lord’s brother is mentioned several times and was head of the church at Jerusalem. It also said in the early church leaders writings that he looked just like Jesus enough to have been his twin.Well, since I think catholics believe the church is human and divine, I suppose a catholic could view it as both depending on the context of the remarks.
Personally, I’ve seen catholics state to non catholics that their refusal to believe in Mary’s perpetual virginity is a slap in the face to God and, I know it is a hot topic but come on.
In a case like that, I would look at the intention of the person and realize they also love God.
Your question is a trap question, basically.
This is one of those things manufactured in order to fit something they wanted to be true.
L
leonie
Guest
Mary didn’t have any other children!!
read this: catholic.com/library/Mary_Ever_Virgin.asp
and catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0007sbs.asp
We are so used to Western kinship systems, it’s hard for us to understand other cultures.
S
StrawberryJam
Guest
Let’s not derail this thought here, and let’s all try to see if the unstated and unknown secretive premise of the OP is logical, and go from there.
- Status