Am I being too hard on my husband?

[ClearWater]

We don´t know what it must be like, unless we´ve been a similar scenario, to have the trust in a relationship utterly destroyed, and to try to need to start to rebuild, from the ground up, again.

However, if you could find it in your heart to ever forgive him, he sounds genuinely repentant, and remorseful, that this happened a long time ago, that he’s changed his “people, places, and things” (like they suggest in AA with alcoholics).

So, he seems serious about his changes. We do get people on this forum, day in, day out, who the wives complain their husbands are currently doing things, promise they will stop and just never do, just give lip service to promises and change. While, your husband seems to have sincerely taken change to heart, changed everything to try to save your marriage, it would seem.

Actually, to be honest, I find that all encouraging signs.

Of the people on this forum who have fallen down, made serious mistakes, I think your husband is one who seems deserving of a second chance…provided you could find it within yourself to forgive him for his past.

From what you say, he seems legitimately a changed man, that he’s fallen down but seems to have managed to have been one of the very few who truly loved, and cared enough, to transform his life. If you look on the forum, very few seem to ever muster that kind of love and conviction. He must really love you a lot.

A lot of husbands refuse to go to counseling. I was married, twice. My first husband went for a month, then gave up on it, and me. My second husband went, once, then gave up.

There is something I’d like to say about infidelity, though.

So often, it’s easy to place 100% of the blame on the one who is being unfaithful, 0% on the other spouse. It depends on the case. However, often, it’s more complicated than that.

In order to overcome something like infidelity, it would take a couple a tremendous amount of honesty and maturity. It would be painful, because we might have to admit to ourselves that maybe we were, even in a small part, responsible.

Sometimes, we can be responsible, in a small way, by neglecting the relationship, say.
This might hurt to admit, but at least in some cases, it’s true.

Does this justify infidelity? No.

However, realistically, I think it sometimes happens. Relationships are complex things.

It may not be your case, but sometimes, some folks don´t feel they are able to get their needs met with their spouse. Only then do some resort to going outside the relationship to get their needs met.

Is this right? Again, no, but in some cases, it can almost even be understandable.

Maybe this is your case, maybe not, just some more food for thought.

 

[pianistclare]

I don’t understand why you are insisting that he admit it to you. How is that going to help? Besides giving you more ammunition to be angry. A divorce won’t solve anything. You say he is remorseful. Has he been to confession? Do you believe he has repented? God forgives everything if we have perfect contrition. We can do no less.
I’m not excusing this awful behavior but you yourself say it’s over, he dumped his former friends, he’s not doing any of this anymore.
Infidelity is not a reason for annulment, btw.
I wouldn’t rush into divorce. You should try to forgive him. It’s hurtful, I’m sure, it’s awful for you. But if you’ve been married this long…I would see if I could find it in my heart to forgive.
Keep on the with the counseling, but I would also see the priest about this.
They counsel marriages with every kind of problem imaginable. Your heart will not be at peace until you forgive. It’s something you do for yourself…not for him. He will benefit, of course. But your life will be filled with misery f you hold this in your heart forever.
I will pray for you.

 

[Tablefor9]

There’s this song “Losing” by a band called Tenth Avenue North. That song talks about how you feel right now, certainly how I felt while my husband battled pornography. Somehow we think pain will stop if we hear the confession and see the remorse. The truth is, sometime the more graphic our knowledge, the sharper the pain. We may never get those pictures out of our minds.

The important thing is to know that we aren’t responsible to God for actions of another, but our own, how we honor our vows before Him. When this man is trying, perhaps you can keep trying with him, a bit longer, asking God for wisdom and healing. Focus your prayer on YOU. You need healing–your heart is broken. You need wisdom–you are floundering in confusion. God who loves you will not forsake you.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Your husband should not sin anymore. And you should stay married and build a healthy relationship with him and God. What point would a divorce serve? How does that help you, your husband or your child achieve heaven?

Infidelity and sex addictions affect the entire family. If he has such a long history and is continuing to live in denial, is he in a position to get anyone into heaven? Or will he continue to be an unfaithful louse to his wife and a disgusting “example” to his children? When his kids find out about his habits, and they will, children pick up on things, what will it do to them to find out how not devoted their dad is to their mom and family? This really doesn’t sound like a man who is unselfish enough to even be a good husband or father.

If she is going to stay, then he needs to be completely honest NOW. He needs to do everything he can to save his marriage NOW. If not, they need to separate until he is ready to be a real part of his family. And if that day never comes, then for her sake and her children, she needs to leave for good.

If he has such a casual attitude towards licking strippers breasts, he has probably been having extramarital sex for a long time. He could bring home a life threatening disease or impregnate someone else. This is just not a safe or healthy environment.

 

[PolarGuy]

I’m sorry blueeyedlady, I think you are way off base, so much so that I question if you’re giving advice based on something that happened to you rather than what happened to OP.

First off, you insist that OPs husband needs to be completely honest or she should leave…but there is really no shred of evidence that he hasn’t been honest. Chronic demands that “I’ll leave unless you confess something that may never have happened” functionally ends the marriage if the husband truly didn’t do anything!

Second, you go from A to Z awfully fast. An unknown number of alleged visits to a strip club years ago has become chronic extramarital intercourse which has become perhaps he impregnated someone or has maybe brought home a disease and exposed you to it. There is absolutely no evidence that any of this has actually occurred! I can’t help but wonder - is this maybe something that’s happened to you, and you’re assuming OPs situation is the same?

By OPs own admission the husband is an otherwise good man who stumbled. I’m sorry but I think you’re way off base counseling OP to end this (which is basically what you’re doing).

 

[ClearWater]

I have posted here on this forum before about this topic. I am posting again because I am still finding it difficult to forgive and move forward. I am getting very frustrated and angry with myself.

I am beginning to think that i am being too hard on my husband. Here is the issue:

I have been married over 20 years.
I found out 3 years ago my husband went to strip clubs behind my back.
I found out that the first 5 years of our marriage my husband had lap dances that included touching stripper’s breasts with his hands.

If that isn’t bad enough. This is what is really troubling me.

My husband denies the lap dances; yet I know he had them. I will explain. He washed his jeans and shirt the morning after he was out all night (3:00 a.m). He NEVER does laundry. I had a GUT feeling something wasn’t right. I intercepted the jeans and shirt. I smelled them. No perfume smell. No Glitter. No makeup. Just smoke smell. So I dismissed it. However, in light of finding out about going to strip clubs behind my back, I remembered his clothes. I remembered how nervous/guilty he looked. I just know something happened. He has denied it.

And I know he won’t admit it no matter how much I beg him to admit it, because I told him that I felt lap dances were almost like having sex with another person and I considered it adultery and cheating. I know he is sticking to his story because I caught him in so many lies about the strip clubs. If he admits he lied about this too, he will think that I will NEVER trust him again.

He has stopped going to these places. We are in marriage counseling. However, I can’t move forward because I know he did it and he won’t admit it to me.

The deceit is driving me nuts. I have begged him to confess to me, but he is sticking to his story. Of course my mind is imagining the worse. He never went to the strip clubs alone. Only with his friends.

Is this issue grounds for divorce? Should I file for divorce? It has been 3 years and I still can’t move forward and forgive.

What even seems like hatred…lack of forgiveness…can actually be frustrated love, turned around…

Sometimes, by realizing this, it can maybe help the process a little easier.

Try to remember why you loved him.

Some people do journaling in a case like that, writing a scathing letter to the offender, that is never intent to be sent, then burning it after the fact.

Try to remember a time when you were forgiven.

We are all human, all fail from time to time, and that includes you and me.

This is an opportunity for growth, healing.

If you could forgive him, I think he would just be up over the moon.

I think forgiveness, on some level, is a conscious decision, that you would need to consciously choose to forgive him, decide that it’s what you want to do.

The, you might need to renew that commitment to forgive him, again and again, daily really.

Have you ever hurt him? Has he forgiven you? Try to also keep that present, as well.

By not being able to forgive, neither of you can move forward.

Good men are REALLY hard to find, especially these days. If it is true that he fell, has genuinely changed, I think it’s possible to salvage this relationship. To me, if he wasn’t sincere, he would have kept on, but he stopped eons ago, changed. To me, that’s different than someone who continues on, won’t even admit he has any problems.

He has admitted to them, sought counsel, forgiveness. I’m not sure what else he could actually do that he hasn’t already done.

 

[Clearwater14]

Let me try to explain the events without writing a novel.

I found out 3 years ago when my husband left his email open. He went to the bathroom. There was an email from a friend talking about going to another out of town weekend football game and visiting the strip clubs like they did before. This shocked me. I asked my husband and he denied it.

Another Friend was visiting us and we were driving to go fishing. We past a strip club and he actually started talking about the time my husband drove him to a strip club just a few years ago!

Now I was on high alert. Did he go to a strip club in Vegas when he went with his cousins? He promised me he wouldn’t. He promised me all the way up to the airport. I asked him if he went and he said NO. He swore. He raised his voice. He kept saying that he never went. I didn’t believe him. I picked up the phone, dialed his cousin and put it on speaker phone. I made my husband ask his cousin if they went to a strip club and what was the name of the strip club. Yep, sure enough they went to a strip club!

He denied going to a strip club in Detroit too for a Football Game. He denied. He denied. He said I knew all of the truth. Guess what. I picked up the phone and made him call his friend. Put it on speaker phone and again had him ask about the strip club on the Detroit Football Weekend. Guess what? Yep, he went!

I am so devastated… It went on and on. Found out from his friend’s wife that my husband licked and fondled a stripper’s breasts with his hands at a bachelor party. He denied and denied. My friend wouldn’t lie. I finally got a partial confession from him. He said that the stripper put her boobs in his face.

So you see, he has lied, and lied to me over and over. This is when I remembered the laundry incident. He got up early after coming home at 3:00 a.m. He started to put his jeans and his shirt in the washing machine. He NEVER does laundry. Also, why use an entire load to wash just two pieces of clothes? I grabbed the clothes from his hand, because I had a GUT feeling he was hiding something. He looked so guilty. It was written all over his face. He then left for work. I inspected the clothes. Nothing. The only thing I noticed was a smoke smell. In light of all the stuff I found out recently, I began to think about this incident. I never checked inside the jeans. Maybe he had a happy ending during a lap dance? I never looked for body secretions. I only looked for makeup and perfume.

This is the only proof that I have. I have caught him in numerous lies and have a GUT feeling.

The time frame of all these events were throughout the 20 years of our marriage.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I’m sorry blueeyedlady, I think you are way off base, so much so that I question if you’re giving advice based on something that happened to you rather than what happened to OP.

First off, you insist that OPs husband needs to be completely honest or she should leave…but there is really no shred of evidence that he hasn’t been honest. Chronic demands that “I’ll leave unless you confess something that may never have happened” functionally ends the marriage if the husband truly didn’t do anything!

Second, you go from A to Z awfully fast. An unknown number of alleged visits to a strip club years ago has become chronic extramarital intercourse which has become perhaps he impregnated someone or has maybe brought home a disease and exposed you to it. There is absolutely no evidence that any of this has actually occurred! I can’t help but wonder - is this maybe something that’s happened to you, and you’re assuming OPs situation is the same?

By OPs own admission the husband is an otherwise good man who stumbled. I’m sorry but I think you’re way off base counseling OP to end this (which is basically what you’re doing).

Nope. Nothing that happened to me. Just a little common sense. If he’s willing to pay money to cheat on his wife in front of other people, what do you think the odds are that he would do it for free in private?

When someone shows you who they are, believe them. He’s shown himself to be a liar and a cheat.

 

[Lookingforjoy]

Have you really told him that his not confessing is keeping you from moving forward? I know you’ve begged him to admit it, but have you really told him the effect it’s having on you? Maybe if he knew that it continues to hurt you and that it would HELP your marriage instead of destroy it he’d admit it.

 

[Clearwater14]

Yes, I have told him that I need the truth to forgive and move forward.

We also went to see our Priest when this all erupted. He lied to the Priest too. He told the Priest he only went to a strip club 2 times. Then I found out later he went 3 times. I know that number is much larger. I just have no proof. However, now that I know he was keeping things from me and hanging around guys who have lied on their wives and actually cheated on their wives. I suspect that my husband was encouraged and peer pressured from his friends. I don’t think it was “his” idea to go. However, he didn’t say no. He went along to be one of the Guys. Obviously, he didn’t think about my feelings.

It is difficult to move forward when you just have pieces of the truth. And all the evidence that I do have; I had to find out by myself.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Yes, I have told him that I need the truth to forgive and move forward.

We also went to see our Priest when this all erupted. He lied to the Priest too. He told the Priest he only went to a strip club 2 times. Then I found out later he went 3 times. I know that number is much larger. I just have no proof. However, now that I know he was keeping things from me and hanging around guys who have lied on their wives and actually cheated on their wives. I suspect that my husband was encouraged and peer pressured from his friends. I don’t think it was “his” idea to go. However, he didn’t say no. He went along to be one of the Guys. Obviously, he didn’t think about my feelings.

It is difficult to move forward when you just have pieces of the truth. And all the evidence that I do have; I had to find out by myself.

I just don’t understand why you are making this claim that you need the “Truth” all this time later. I think you might have some issues to deal with yourself. Anyway, my advice stands. Let it go. IF you can’t, the problem my lie with you.

 

[pianistclare]

After reading your expanded explanation of the incidents, I have this gut feeling:

It sounds to me like you run the household. Like an angry parent, you make phone calls and try to get people to call him out and reveal his ugly secrets. (Make no mistake, they are ugly, and I am NOT excusing them).
But, like teens who resent having their rooms searched, and then when they are they run away??? Same deal. What may have started out as something he was led into by Bachelor parties, escalated because big angry reactions tend to make dangerous behavior more desirable.
This man is sick. He needs intense therapy. You as well. You need therapy to deal with the grief of these betrayals, and to learn how to live as his partner, not his mother.
Knowing all the details isn’t going to help, because it only fuels your wrath. And it is the same as cutting yourself. You want this pain, at this point, you probably need this pain to deal with it. Stop wounding yourself! Get new counselors for the both of you.
Re-boot. Find out what problems you both have. I don’t think it’s a matter of forgiveness as much as it is a matter of self-awareness.
He has to change, and you have to forgive.
** But you both have to change the dynamic within your marriage that fuels this.**

I’m sorry if I sound harsh. Think of the children, as BEL says. Something has to give.
your daughters will never trust a man, and your sons will learn to deceive their wives.

 

[bmaj]

Oh, there is more… I forgot to mention:

He touched and licked stripper’s breasts at a Bachelor Party. I found out through an email sent by his friend. Hence, I know he had lap dances at the strip clubs… There is so much evidence. Just no proof.

He says he loves me. How could he love me and do this to me? He knew how I felt about strippers and strip clubs.

How do I move past this? I feel betrayed. I feel that I wasn’t enough for him. I am devastated that he would partake in these sexual sins during our marriage.

I also caught him watching porn. It is so hard to forgive all of this. Especially since he won’t admit it.

I know he is ashamed and afraid to admit it to me. I know he is afraid if he confesses everything to me that I may file for divorce. He doesn’t want to look worse than he already does.

I am at a loss. I don’t know what to do. I just cry all the time and am so deeply hurt. I don’t know what he was thinking. He ruined our marriage and betrayed my trust. How does one get past this?

I don’t think I am strong enough. I question his love for me. I question if I am enough for him. I question our marriage. I am going though so much pain and it has lasted for 3 years. I am beginning to think it will never go away. I will never forget or forgive him. Maybe the best thing for me to do is divorce him?

I need advice. My counselor told me not to dwell on the past. Just think about the present. She tells me if he treats me good now and has stopped doing those things, I should forgive and work things out. It is so hard. The hardest thing I ever had to do.

Help.

The hurt you’re feeling is very legitimate and all too real, Clearwater14. I’m so sorry to hear what you’re going through. Please know that none of this is your fault. These are his sins alone, and it’s not your fault. Sexual addictions like strip clubs and porn can be very hard for men to admit, confess, or control. One of the reasons is pure embarrassment. He seems to know what he did was wrong, but he can’t bring himself to admit what he did to you. The good news is that he no longer hangs around with the people he used to who he went to the strip clubs with, and hopefully he will never go to another strip club again or view porn any more. I’ve had a similar situation with my husband when I discovered his heavy porn use. He lied and lied repeatedly and to this day has never apologized for it to me. Also absolutely refuses to go to Confession — ever — since he was a teenager decades ago, yet he still receives the Holy Eucharist every week. Nothing I say has made him understand the sins or apologize to me, but he silently seems repentful and says he loves me. He’s a good man as it sounds like your husband is, but mine has also lied over and over again and sinned repeatedly through the porn use. There came a point when I had to hand it all over to God. I pray every day for our Blessed Mother’s, St. Monica’s, and St. Michael’s intercession. Mine still views soft-core porn now and ogles other women in public when he thinks I don’t see. It still hurts me as it hurts you tremendously. There’s a group here at CAF that you and any other wives going through this may wish to join titled, “Women Suffering Because of Unchastity.” It has helped me in my marriage a lot. I also seriously considered separation and divorce after decades of marriage because of this, but for now I’m letting God take control while I remain in a marriage that is not at all what it should be. Day by day, I keep praying. Forgiving someone who has not repented or apologized is extremely hard, but even harder is trying to forget and move on from it. But I’ve found it is usually possible if I take it one day at a time and try to concentrate on the good aspects in him and our marriage. Some days are harder than others as you may have also found. A book that also helped me a lot was “Boundaries in Marriage,” by Cloud and Townsend. It might help you as well. Please know that you’re in my prayers for strength in this no matter what you decide to do. Discussing it on your own with a Priest can also be very beneficial. God’s peace and blessings to you always.

 

[CthgeDelendaEst]

OP,

Making him call his friends while you eavesdrop strikes me as horribly emasculating to your husband. But the fact that he was willing to do it should tell you he wasn’t that worried about what they would say. This should put you at ease! They could have easily revealed a girlfriend if he had one, one night stands from those trips, etc. This is why it is plausible to me that he really didn’t lick the stripper’s breasts. Maybe the friend was smashed drunk and has your husband confused with someone else. Or maybe your husband was drunk and doesn’t remember doing this (not an excuse, but a possible explanation).

However, let’s assume the story is true. Were I in your situation, it would upset me greatly, no question. But it appears your husband, in 20 years, has not had a physical or emotional affair - and you are a super sleuth and he seems sloppy about covering his tracks, so I believe you would have found out. He has not had actual intercourse or oral sex with another woman. He has cut ties with the friends who got him into trouble. He is going to counseling. Separate from him if you must, but stop the witch hunt.

Lastly, consider that if you move ahead with divorce it is possible your husband will “fall off the wagon” into deeper sin, which could be a lot worse than going to a strip club. You have daughters, I’m assuming at least 1 is a minor. You may get custody, but he will surely have visitation. You’ll have no control at all over what your daughters experience over there, which might include a revolving door of women. Food for thought.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

OP,

Making him call his friends while you eavesdrop strikes me as horribly emasculating to your husband. But the fact that he was willing to do it should tell you he wasn’t that worried about what they would say. This should put you at ease! They could have easily revealed a girlfriend if he had one, one night stands from those trips, etc. This is why it is plausible to me that he really didn’t lick the stripper’s breasts. Maybe the friend was smashed drunk and has your husband confused with someone else. Or maybe your husband was drunk and doesn’t remember doing this (not an excuse, but a possible explanation).

However, let’s assume the story is true. Were I in your situation, it would upset me greatly, no question. But it appears your husband, in 20 years, has not had a physical or emotional affair - and you are a super sleuth and he seems sloppy about covering his tracks, so I believe you would have found out. He has not had actual intercourse or oral sex with another woman. He has cut ties with the friends who got him into trouble. He is going to counseling. Separate from him if you must, but stop the witch hunt.

Lastly, consider that if you move ahead with divorce it is possible your husband will “fall off the wagon” into deeper sin, which could be a lot worse than going to a strip club. You have daughters, I’m assuming at least 1 is a minor. You may get custody, but he will surely have visitation. You’ll have no control at all over what your daughters experience over there, which might include a revolving door of women. Food for thought.

Yes. The OP seems to want to exact some punishment for her hurt. And so much time has elapsed that this is just not healthy.

I think many women who threaten divorce really end up wishing they had not. Nothing seems to get better. And letting the kids go over to the house of the husband and his new chippie seems to really get stuck in some people’s craw. Things to think about. Also, be aware of a gotcha moment on his part too. If she is still demanding atonement and punishment now, imagine when she slips up about something.

Flat out this is no way to live a marriage and have a family. Forgiveness and mercy should mirror Christ.

 

[Mummsie]

OP,

I am sincerely sorry for the pain you’ve gone through. I know that it can turn your world upside down.

You said you would do what God wanted you to do. Didn’t he say Forgive? 7 times 70 times? If God has forgiven him, then you should do the same. He has made significant changes to rectify the situation. It sounds like he wants to have a healthy life with you and his children. This won’t happen if you continue to live in the past.

It seems like you’ve formed a sort of “addiction” to his infidelity. For 3 years you have been replaying his sins over and over and over again. This is blackening your heart. It will make you physically sick. You can’t change the past and you can’t control him in the future. Those are simple facts.

I’ve been married 45 years and if either my husband or I held on to our issues for 3 years, we would not have made it.

Place your trust in God. Ask him to help you forgive. He is there waiting for you to turn the problem over to him.

God Bless you and your family.

 

[Clearwater14]

My daughters are 20 and 16 and they are not stupid. They have heard us argue. My husband has left multiple times and stayed at various hotels for days without even answering my phone calls. My husband didn’t even spend Christmas with us last year! My daughters see the pain I am in. I have lost 30 pounds. I lost some of my hair. I have suffered major Depression and PTSD from my husband’s sinful behaviors. Of course I don’t “discuss” my problems about my husband with my daughters, but they know we are having problems. They’d have their heads in the sand if they didn’t know anything was wrong.

I resent the comment that I am not being a good mother and I am dragging my daughters into my marriage problems!

 

[Clearwater14]

About the phone calls that were put on “Speaker”… Yes, I agree that this wasn’t the best approach. However, when someone lies to you and changes stories over and over again. I felt I had no other choice. I wanted to know what happened. I deserved to know what happened. I deserve to be treated fairly and with respect.

 

[pianistclare]

It appears you have made up your mind.
I pray you will consider some of the posts here.

 

[Clearwater14]

What do you mean it appears I have made up my mind? I came to this forum for help. I didn’t come to this forum to get bashed.