Am I Close-minded Because I Embrace Church Teachings?

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Our vicar, Bishop Gustavo Garcia-Siller follows church teaching completely. I have never met a more humble man in my entire life. To think that those who follow church teaching pontificate…maybe this is inaccurate to say the least. My grandmother followed church teaching entirely…I have never met a more spiritual or pious uneducated person in my life. I believe she knew Jesus intimately in all ways…not just about Him, and believe me she never pontificated either.

I know people who pontificate about everything… where to get the best deal, who the greatest sports team is, who is going to be elected…you name it, they have an opinion…and they will tell you where you are in error without blinking an eye. I don’t think there is any correlation to following church teaching and pontificating…it is human nature.
 
Our vicar, Bishop Gustavo Garcia-Siller follows church teaching completely. I have never met a more humble man in my entire life. To think that those who follow church teaching pontificate…maybe this is inaccurate to say the least. My grandmother followed church teaching entirely…I have never met a more spiritual or pious uneducated person in my life. I believe she knew Jesus intimately in all ways…not just about Him, and believe me she never pontificated either.
you of course have misunderstood completely. I was not referring to anyone off this forum. I was referring only to SOME posters here.
I know people who pontificate about everything… where to get the best deal, who the greatest sports team is, who is going to be elected…you name it, they have an opinion…and they will tell you where you are in error without blinking an eye. I don’t think there is any correlation to following church teaching and pontificating…it is human nature.
Again, you have simply totally misunderstood the post. try to read it again with the above in mind. Then you will not be so confused about what I said.
 
Witness, I know how you feel. I recently stopped posting at a secular message board I was very active in due to a debate about homosexuality in which I was labeled a “bigoted homophobe” because I said I believed what the Catholic Church taught about homosexuality and same-sex marriage. I tried to be as polite and respectful as possible throughout the entire debate (even though the pro-homosexual crowd was engaging in nasty, swear-word-filled name-calling at me), yet I was the one labeled the close-minded bigot, even by other Christians. I finally decided just to shake the dust of that board from my feet and moved on.

It hurt, because I’d made a lot of friends there, and it hurt even more to see the posts of those who said, “Well, I’m Catholic, but I believe there’s nothing wrong with homosexuality/same-sex marriage.” When I tried to discuss the nature of Church authority and why it was something of a non sequitur to call youself Catholic but embrace homosexuality, these same Catholics just turned a deaf ear in the name of “tolerance.”

It all comes down to authority, and the fact that so many people believe (or want to believe) that they are their own Pope. Rest assured you will get your reward in the next life even if you are persecuted in this one. 👍
 
I don;t think many object to anyone following Church teaching as they understand it. And i agree that sometimes those who disagree with some teaching are not diplomatic in their choice of words. But those who espouse full agreement with all Church teaching do have a tendency to pontificate a bit and also to mistate what is advised into what is demanded by the Church, in some attempt to protect people from what they consider unsafe reading. When they immediately accuse people who are struggling with something as being self-excommunicators, heretical, or calling Jesus a liar (my personal favorite) its a good formula for an argument. Not all do this to be sure, but there is a strong self-righteousness expressed by some. I’m sure those people have complaints as well. But this forum, like most, attracts the opposites of the spectrum rather than the middle, so its inevitable.
This action can hardly be surprising or blameworthy. When one pontificates in defense of Church Teaching, one often is quoting one or the other of the Popes. Hence, one pontificates.

American Heritage Dictionary - pon·tif·i·cate (pŏn-tĭf’ĭ-kĭt, -kāt’)

n. The office or term of office of a pontiff.

intr.v. (-kāt’) pon·tif·i·cat·ed, pon·tif·i·cat·ing, pon·tif·i·cates
  1. To express opinions or judgments in a dogmatic way.
    2… To administer the office of a pontiff.
Supporting dogma in the most literal manner almost requires pontificating. Despite the negative connotation of the word within this (American) culture, its roots are literal and useful (worthy).
 
It’s the most rare of persons who does not go to others they respect to form their opinions.

I’m not at all ashamed to say that when I’m confronted with something I don’t have a clear opinion on - I go to the Church. I want to see what they say. However, even when using the Church one can come up with a variety of opinion. When this is the case I read closely to see the thought that went into the formulation of that opinion.

Example: Harry Potter

When these books first came out most people (Catholics and Protestants) seemed to be against the books. A show I watched on EWTN was very negative and thought the books dangerous. Then I read an opinion by Archbishop Chaput in a Catholic publication. He didn’t seem to have near the same fears. He gave some common sense guidelines to parents if they decided to allow their children to read to books. Then, an exorcist from the Vatican mentioned again the dangers of the occult in relation to the books. Some people educated in philosophy tried to make connections between gnosticism and parallels with the Harry Potter series. Other philosophers saw it as a classic story of good vs evil.

In taking in all this opinion I learned a lot. I was given many different ways of looking at the Harry Potter books. I learned that always taking the most “conservative” view wasn’t always the view that won the day. — I was Protestant before 2000 and I was conditioned to default to the conservative position on anything. – I learned that even philosophers and exorcists can become “myopic” and misevaluate a topic.

More recent - The Golden Compass

Here the opinion was virtually universal. This was indeed dangerous. The final book of the trilogy actually “murdered God”. Some saw the pernicious and insidious plan to destroy a child’s faith in God. I also learned a bit about those who are supposed to write movie reviews in the USCCB!!😦 Even though NOT ONE bishop ever wrote a positive review of the movie. As a result I didn’t see the movie – even though I generally love fantasy adventures.

One more example - EVOLUTION

Again, with my Protestant past I was suspicious of evolutiion. Evolutionists were, often accurately, portrayed as atheistic and the evolutionary theory crossed over into the religious realm as a means of creating a world view that didn’t include a deity. Even after becoming Catholic in 2000 I still didn’t buy into evolutionary theory. Some of the Catholic publications I read - conservative, of course, as this is by nature where I fit - were very cautious of Pope John Paul II comments that evolution was “more than a theory” giving it a very minimalistic interpretation.

In time I became more comfortable with how Catholics viewed scripture and how to look at the scriptures without a paradigm of “literalism”. I became more comfortable looking at certain books as “perhaps” being allegorical - e.g. Job. I studied Revelation without trying to predict the future and looked at it more in view of “apocalyptic literature”.

After going through these exercises I was more able to accept the Genesis creation story as an accounts made by an ancient author to bring truth to the fore that was not part of other ancient creation accounts. Science wasn’t even a factor in the writing. So, I could conclude, anything scientifically true would be more a result of hindsight and a proper putting together of faith and reason, that the biblical text giving a science lesson in its first chapter – which now to me seems extremely odd!!🙂

Then I was ready to read a book by then Cardinal Ratzinger on homilies he gave on Genesis 1 - 3. In it he spoke of evolution as a fact of nature. He made a distinct separation between the scientific and the religious/philosophical stating the separation that couldn’t be crossed by the scientific community. God is creator.

This process took me several years but now I could see one could be a Christian and believe in evolution. I think all the above shows on with an open mind. A mind that is normal, healthy and curious to find out what’s what. Changing ones mind is not only an act of the intellect and learning and evaluating information. It’s also an act of the will to decide to go down a path. I clearly remember on my journey to the Catholic faith there were certain parts of the journey that were intellectual in nature – but there was a clear moment when I gave my will to accepting the Catholic faith. That, I’m sure was a moment of grace, but once the will is set everything else following becomes easy.

To recap: EVERYONE goes to sources they consider worthy of their respect to help formulate their opinions. The Church certainly isn’t a monolith so sometimes that is a real winnowing process and one that is done at a frustratingly slow pace at times – but eventually, I can come to a conclusion I feel comfortable in holding. My mind is open - but my will is much more guarded!

MonFrere
 
To recap: EVERYONE goes to sources they consider worthy of their respect to help formulate their opinions. The Church certainly isn’t a monolith so sometimes that is a real winnowing process and one that is done at a frustratingly slow pace at times – but eventually, I can come to a conclusion I feel comfortable in holding. My mind is open - but my will is much more guarded!
You make a very good point.

A friend of mine made a comment on her LiveJournal a few weeks ago along the lines of, “What would Catholics do if they didn’t have the Pope to tell them who to vote for?” (She’s a very anti-Catholic former Catholic.)

I asked her to please provide an official Church document where the Pope told *any *Catholic **who **they should vote for. She responded with a link to the USCCB’s voter’s guide and said, “My mistake, it’s the bishops who tell Catholics who to vote for, not the Pope.”

I replied, “If you actually read the document that’s at that link, you’ll see that the bishops do not tell Catholics who to vote for – they tell Catholics what social and moral issues should be considered when chosing a candidate to vote for. How is it any different than you, a staunch advocate of legalized abortion, getting voting advice from Planned Parenthood when they say that you shouldn’t vote for a candidate who doesn’t support legalized abortion? What’s the difference between you getting voting advice from an organization that you respect, and Catholics getting voting advice from a source they consider to be morally authoritative?”

She had no reply to that.
 
This action can hardly be surprising or blameworthy. When one pontificates in defense of Church Teaching, one often is quoting one or the other of the Popes. Hence, one pontificates.

American Heritage Dictionary - pon·tif·i·cate (pŏn-tĭf’ĭ-kĭt, -kāt’)

n. The office or term of office of a pontiff.

intr.v. (-kāt’) pon·tif·i·cat·ed, pon·tif·i·cat·ing, pon·tif·i·cates
  1. To express opinions or judgments in a dogmatic way.
    2… To administer the office of a pontiff.
Supporting dogma in the most literal manner almost requires pontificating. Despite the negative connotation of the word within this (American) culture, its roots are literal and useful (worthy).
But of course you knew I didn’t mean it that way but in the way you designate as negative. So your statements are intellectually interesting but of course have nothing to do with my post.
 
But of course you knew I didn’t mean it that way but in the way you designate as negative. So your statements are intellectually interesting but of course have nothing to do with my post.
It’s interesting that you imagine you can read my mind but I have no idea what you mean. I’m saying that ponticating regarding issues that are under Papal authority is simply logical.

As I said:

“Supporting dogma in the most literal manner almost requires pontificating. Despite the negative connotation of the word within this (American) culture, its roots are literal and useful (worthy).”
 
Witness to Hope, regarding Church Teachings, I posted a thread today in (I thought) Moral Theology, regarding Conscience. Perhaps I misplaced it unaware since it shows up in a forum called Back Fence (?). Anyway, here’s the link:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=209928

It concerns a man, newly beatified, who stood nearly alone in following Church Teachings and died for it.
 
Anyone who does as you have done, being in disagreement, and searching seriously for answers, finding that the Church answered your questions in a manner that was satisfactory to you, is exactly what is required. You did everything perfectly and are to be commended for it. Sadly, as some have pointed out, many do not do this, and do think that they can simply “agree to disagree” and follow their own dictates. Such persons take a dangerous path, since have not followed appropriate methods to either learn what the Church teaches or why.

I would think that most people if they actually take the time to do the work may and in most cases will find themselves in agreement. That is what the process is for.

My congratulations to you!
👍
 
It’s interesting that you imagine you can read my mind but I have no idea what you mean. I’m saying that ponticating regarding issues that are under Papal authority is simply logical.

As I said:

“Supporting dogma in the most literal manner almost requires pontificating. Despite the negative connotation of the word within this (American) culture, its roots are literal and useful (worthy).”
Okay I’ll change the word so you can understand my point, which I know you of course already do but enjoy arguing about minutia.

Some folks who espouse a full and complete following of all church teachings do sometimes “lecture” others and sometimes misstate as dogma what is only warning.

Now perhaps we can return to the subject. because I really am done with the nitpicking in order to say you have argued against me. ’

PS…its quite clear of course that we disagree. That does not mean every statement I make is worthy of response if you have to dig that deep to find something to argue with. You will be heard more clearly if you wait for something to really argue with.
 
Okay I’ll change the word so you can understand my point, which I know you of course already do but enjoy arguing about minutia. **Again, this is a function of your imagination. I simply don’t see the point your arguing. **

Some folks who espouse a full and complete following of all church teachings do sometimes “lecture” others and sometimes misstate as dogma what is only warning.

Now perhaps we can return to the subject. because I really am done with the nitpicking in order to say you have argued against me. I’m quite clear about what I said. It was relevant. I’ve no idea why you have a problem with it.

PS…its quite clear of course that we disagree. That does not mean every statement I make is worthy of response if you have to dig that deep to find something to argue with. You will be heard more clearly if you wait for something to really argue with. I’m sure you have neither the right nor the reason to suggest I not post any response to anyone. That said, I do my best to ignore as many of your posts as possible.

Frankly, I have no desire to argue with anyone. I’m sorry if you could not understand my point.
 
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