Am I considered a heretic?

[PetraG]

Well the Church is infallible.

As you know, there are a lot of misconceptions out there concerning what this means in practical terms. It is not meant in the all-encompassing terms that some initially think it is.

Um, sex, or marital relations between a married man and woman do not have to be for the expressed intention of procreation.

Yes, there is a big difference between being open to the possibility of procreation and expressly desiring a pregnancy. We are certainly not bound to avoid marital relations when we aren’t actively hoping to immediately conceive another child. Of course not–that is usually not the way our bodies work! We aren’t duty-bound to wish our bodies were more fecund than our bodies are.

 

[phil19034]

One of them is sex between a married couple for pleasure or bonding or fun being wrong without the intention of procreation.

The Church does NOT teach this.

The Church teaches that sex between husband & wife is for BOTH procreation and bonding.

The key is being open to life. Once cannot have sex for pleasure if one is unwilling to accept the possible consequences of getting pregnant.

So a couple can practice NFP and have sex all they want (as long as they are open to life).

The problem comes with the contraceptive mentality, where couples say “we are not open to life, but we are going to have sex anyway”

 

[TheLittleLady]

If the Church were perfect, I would not be permitted in!

 

[goout]

A heretic is a person who
[/quote]

A heretic is a CATHOLIC who…

Small but often misunderstood point:
The Church’s laws on this do not apply to non Catholics.
Someone who is not a Catholic may take positions that are heretical in a general sense, but to be charged as a heretic you must be a Catholic.
The word frequently is thrown around as a pejorative to almost anyone who does not profess the creed or takes a position at odds with the Church. That is not a proper use of “heretic”.

 

[goout]

Nor did I say they do.

Someone who is not a Catholic may take positions that are heretical in a general sense, but to be charged as a heretic you must be a Catholic.

Anyone who holds to a heretical position is a heretic; if this is done culpably, the person would be guilty of the sin of heresy, regardless of whether or not he is a Catholic. However, a non-Catholic to whom the canons of the Code of Canon Law do not apply (c. 11) cannot be charged with the crime of heresy.

You will notice that I made the distinction between sin and delict (crime) in the post you responded to. Non-Catholics can certainly be guilty of the sin, but cannot commit the delict (or be punished for it) under the current Code.

So thank you for the clarification, but it seems unwarranted in this case.
[/quote]

All good, but again your first sentence mis-applies the word heretic in way too broad of a sense. Which is exactly why I brought it up.

 

[goout]

The Church does not use the word in this way.
You have a blessed day also.

 

[Famulus]

Forgive me if I am not seeing something my friend, but what does Church teaching on marital relations have to do with the infallibility of the Church?

 

[Famulus]

Well I have always understood the Church to be the bride of Christ, Her teachings, dogma, doctrine and all. Individuals are not the Church

 

[Vico]

Well I have always understood the Church to be the bride of Christ, Her teachings, dogma, doctrine and all. Individuals are not the Church

Church can mean Catholic Church or Church of Christ, for example. If by church is intended the sum of all Christians, then that is not infallible – since all Christians are not united in a hierarchical communion.

Concerning this infallibility of the People of God the Second Vatican Council speaks as follows: “The body of the faithful as a whole, anointed as they are by the Holy One (cf. 1 Jn 2:20, 27), cannot err in matters of belief. Thanks to a supernatural instinct of faith which characterizes the people as a whole, it manifests this unerring quality when, ‘from the bishops down to the last member of the laity’ (St. Augustine, De Praed. Sanct. , 14, 27), it shows universal agreement in matters of faith and morals.”(15)

The Holy Spirit enlightens and assists the People of God inasmuch as it is the Body of Christ united in a hierarchical communion. The Second Vatican Council indicates this fact by adding to the words quoted above: "

 

[PetraG]

Forgive me if I am not seeing something my friend, but what does Church teaching on marital relations have to do with the infallibility of the Church?

I was replying to two different posts in the same reply. (The second part of the reply was aimed at the quoted comment made by @maryjk.)

 

[stpurl]

Well, we do believe “The Church” is perfect (you know, the Church with its teachings, ordinary magisterium, deposit of the Faith, the dogma and doctrines), but that the individuals in the Church are not.

Because The Church (which is both all those who belong to her, living and dead, as well as all She teaches and upholds) is the Bride of Christ, united to Christ, and thus perfect and Holy.

 

[OurLadyofSorrows]

Well, we do believe “The Church” is perfect (you know, the Church with its teachings, ordinary magisterium, deposit of the Faith, the dogma and doctrines), but that the individuals in the Church are not.

What I am getting at is the Church on earth is run by people, we are imperfect, therfore the Church we run cannot be perfect. God is perfect

 

[stpurl]

I think we’re probably saying the same thing, except we need to remember that ‘The Church” is still perfect, even if its members aren’t. If The Church (meaning all that was given to us by Jesus, including the authority to hold forth on dogma and doctrine and explain it) is not united to Christ and thus holy and perfect in its teachings, albeit never fully and correctly LIVED by its members, then we’re nothing but another group of people who define God and His teachings according to our limited and often wrong beliefs.

A perfect deposit of faith, infallible in teachings on faith and morals, instituted by Christ, with the authority to proclaim His teachings as such, but done by fallible people, about hits the mark.

 

[Gorgias]

I am Catholic but I don’t believe the church is infallible and perfect for lots of reasons.

Umm… the Church doesn’t declare itself “infallible and perfect”; why should you? It does declare that its doctrinal teachings on matters of faith and morals are without error. It doesn’t declare that every word out of the mouth of a pope, bishop, or priest is, de facto, true and good and correct, though.

It’s just that my heart and mind become agitated when I try to accept some of the teachings.

Keep working at it. Pray for God to show you His wisdom.

I have things bouncing around in my head that feel very ok to me but seem contrary to what a lot of vocal Catholics say is right.

Then again, “a lot of vocal Catholics and what they say is right”… are mistaken. Not all, and not on all things. But, Catholics can be mistaken about the content of the Church’s teachings, too…

The Catholic Church IS infallible (that’s *de Fide divina et Catholicam, i.e. it must be believed with divine and Catholic Faith) whereas Churchmen may or may not be infallible. Don’t confuse the Church with Churchmen.

No… the doctrinal teachings of the Church are infallible. Don’t confuse the teachings of the Church with the Church herself.

Forgive me if I am mistaken, but it doesn’t really make sense to say that the Church’s teaching is infallible, but not the Church.

Sure, it makes sense! The protection falls upon the teachings (and by extension, by the authority through which the teachings are made), but not on the persons themselves, per se.