Am I excommunicated?

[_L]

Bear with me here folks:

I was just reading Church teaching regarding automatic excommunications over here:
ewtn.com/expert/answers/heresy_schism_apostasy.htm

this part specifically:

When it comes to Catholics who are formally guilty of heresy, apostasy or schism, the Church applies the penalty of excommunication. The 1983 Code of Canon Law, repeating the sanctions of the earlier 1917 Code, states,

c. 1364

1. With due regard for can. 194, part 1, n. 2, an apostate from the faith, a heretic or a schismatic incurs automatic (latae sententiae) excommunication and if a cleric, he can also be punished by the penalties mentioned in can. 1336, part 1, nn. 1, 2, and 3.
2. If long lasting contumacy or the seriousness of scandal warrants it, other penalties can be added including dismissal from the clerical state.
   This canon is saying that once a person willingly repudiates Christ, embraces a heresy, knowing it to be contrary to divine and Catholic faith, or refuses submission to the Roman Pontiff (or communion with the members of the Church subject to him), by virtue of the law itself they are automatically excommunicated. No ecclesiastical act is necessary and no public notice.

However, to incur this latae sententia excommunication one must satisfy the general conditions for canonical culpability set out in the Code. For example, a person who has not been diligent (prudently weighing the issues involved) in their action is not punished.
c. 1321

1. No one is punished unless the external violation of a law or a precept committed by the person is seriously imputable to that person by reason of malice or culpability.
2. A person who has deliberately violated a law or a precept is bound by the penalty stated in the law or that precept; unless a law or a precept provides otherwise, a person who has violated that law or that precept through a lack of necessary diligence is not punished.
3. Unless it is otherwise evident, imputability is presumed whenever an external violation has occurred.

c. 1323
The following are not subject to penalties when they have violated a law or precept:
(1) a person who has not yet completed the sixteenth year of age;
(2) a person who without any fault was unaware of violating a law or precept; however, inadvertence and error are equivalent to ignorance;
(3) a person who acted out of physical force or in virtue of a mere accident which could neither be foreseen nor prevented when foreseen;
(4) a person who acted out of grave fear, even if only relatively grave, or out of necessity or out of serious inconvenience unless the act is intrinsically evil or verges on harm to souls;
(5) a person who for the sake of legitimate self-defense or defense of another acted against an unjust aggressor with due moderation;
(6) a person who lacked the use of reason with due regard for the prescriptions of cann. 1324, part 1, n. 2 and 1325;
(7) a person who without any fault felt that the circumstances in nn. 4 or 5 were verified.
And it occurred to me that under these conditions, I might be excommunicated without even having been aware of it.

When I was 20, (am 21 now) I was going through a very difficult time, my best friend had left the faith and become an atheist, and this left me very depressed and even doubting my own faith. And at one point things got so bad that on two occasions I resigned myself to just a mode of disbelief, It’s hard to remember, but it wasn’t a disbelief in God, I stilled believed in God through all this. But all these doubts about the truth of the Catholic faith came bearing down on me and I resigned myself to voluntary disbelief, thinking "how can this be true? I don’t see how this is true, I just don’t think I believe this, I want it to be true, but there just seems to be so much that doesn’t make sense, so many contradictions, I just don’t believe this " It wasn’t a premeditated sort of thing, it was just a spur of the moment of voluntary doubt in the anxiety of the doubts going through my head about my faith. And this happened on two occasions, but after each occasion I snapped to my senses and went to confession within a day, confessing having voluntary doubts against faith. Was this adequate enough?

But according to this article, which now having read it today, is reigniting memories of having read something similar long ago but I certainly was not aware of this Church law regarding things like schism, apostasy, heresy. etc when I committed these sins against faith. Now basically what I’m asking is, did I commit heresy, apostasy, or whatever? I’m quite concerned that I did, I don’t remember if my doubts spread to the entirety of the Christian gospel, I was way too overcome with grief and other temptations to really remember everything I doubted on.

Quoting from my link:

Definitions
The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines these three sins against the faith in this way:

2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it.

"Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same;

apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith;

schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him." [Code of Canon Law c.751]

Now from this, it seems I committed heresy (or perhaps apostasy)

And if I did commit heresy or apostasy, does this mean I have been excommunicated the past several months, all the while going to mass, confession and so on without even knowing I’ve been excommunicated? This is just causing me a great deal of anxiety right now, answers appreciated.

 

[CrimsonThorn]

As far as my understanding goes, excommunication is more of thing reserved for people in the public eye who claim to represent the RCC but by their actions, beliefs, words, misrepresent or contradict the RCC. Therefore the excommunication is basically the Church saying “you don’t represent us.”

I think Confession is sufficient in your case?

 

[_L]

As far as my understanding goes, excommunication is more of thing reserved for people in the public eye who claim to represent the RCC but by their actions, beliefs, words, misrepresent or contradict the RCC. Therefore the excommunication is basically the Church saying “you don’t represent us.”

I think Confession is sufficient in your case?

I’m referring to automatic excommunications:

c. 1364

1. With due regard for can. 194, part 1, n. 2, an apostate from the faith, a heretic or a schismatic incurs automatic (latae sententiae) excommunication and if a cleric, he can also be punished by the penalties mentioned in can. 1336, part 1, nn. 1, 2, and 3.

from the link i posted

 

[CrimsonThorn]

Yes that means, I think, if you’re a Catholic politician who condones abortion, you are automatically excommunicated. You cannot recieve the Eucharist etc. and are no longer part of the Church.stuff like that.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Have you formally defected from the Catholic Church? If not, then you are not an apostate or schismatic.

 

[_L]

Have you formally defected from the Catholic Church? If not, then you are not an apostate or schismatic.

What does formally mean though? These instances of possible heresy or apostasy I’m speaking of were purely mental, manifested in my thoughts, occurring on two specific occasions, and as I said in my first post, I went to confession within a day both times.

 

[ConstantineTG]

What does formally mean though? These instances of possible heresy or apostasy I’m speaking of were purely mental, manifested in my thoughts, occurring on two specific occasions, and as I said in my first post, I went to confession within a day both times.

You have to be formally declared by the Church as a heretic to be one.

A formal defection is either formally joining another religion or formally rejecting the Church. Usually a public declaration as with atheists. Public means having people other than yourself know. Having doubts is normal and is part of the struggle we go through everyday.

 

[johnnyjones]

Yes that means, I think, if you’re a Catholic politician who condones abortion, you are automatically excommunicated. You cannot recieve the Eucharist etc. and are no longer part of the Church.stuff like that.

Although I don’t think this is being strictly enforced. Mario and Andrew Cuomo have both received communion as politicians in NY that are pro “choice”. But then again the church is not likely to throw you to the floor and carry you out.

 

[_L]

You have to be formally declared by the Church as a heretic to be one.

A formal defection is either formally joining another religion or formally rejecting the Church. Usually a public declaration as with atheists. Public means having people other than yourself know. Having doubts is normal and is part of the struggle we go through everyday.

Not formal in the sense this document uses the word:

The Church’s moral theology has always distinguished between objective or material sin and formal sin. The person who holds something contrary to the Catholic faith is materially a heretic. They possess the matter of heresy, theological error. Thus, prior to the Second Vatican Council it was quite common to speak of non-Catholic Christians as heretics, since many of their doctrines are objectively contrary to Catholic teaching. This theological distinction remains true, though in keeping with the pastoral charity of the Council today we use the term heretic only to describe those who willingly embrace what they know to be contrary to revealed truth. Such persons are formally (in their conscience before God) guilty of heresy. Thus, the person who is objectively in heresy is not formally guilty of heresy if 1) their ignorance of the truth is due to their upbringing in a particular religious tradition (to which they may even be scrupulously faithful), and 2) they are not morally responsible for their ignorance of the truth. This is the principle of invincible ignorance, which Catholic theology has always recognized as excusing before God.

The same is true of apostasy. The person who leaves not just the Catholic Church but who abandons Christ Himself is materially an apostate. He is formally an apostate through willful, and therefore culpable, repudiation of the Christian faith.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Not formal in the sense this document uses the word:

You know what, we won’t get anything resolved here. Have this addressed by your priest during confession.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

There is such a thing as “automatic excommunication.”

This happens, for example, if you have an abortion.

However, confessors are given the leeway to analyze whether the act was done under full knowledge and consent (I don’t know the exact words but something like that) and have the option to absolve.

So, compared to formal excommunication, it doesn’t require a bishop to get back into state of grace.

I think that’s right, anyway.

Alan

 

[Elizium23]

You have to be formally declared by the Church as a heretic to be one.

A formal defection is either formally joining another religion or formally rejecting the Church. Usually a public declaration as with atheists. Public means having people other than yourself know. Having doubts is normal and is part of the struggle we go through everyday.

No, you don’t.

A formal defection is a notification in writing to Church officials that you are leaving the Church. There is no such thing in law as formal defection anymore, it has no juridicial effect. The diocese or parish may make a notation in your baptismal records if you attempt one, though.

Formally joining another religion is not formal but a de facto defection. This used to be recognized in the 1917 Code of Canon Law, along with a notorious defection, which was for famous people and cases.

You do not need to be famous or well-known in order to have an excommunication imposed for apostasy. You do, however, have to be obstinate in these beliefs. You also have to be aware a priori of the penalty before it can be imposed. Since the OP went to Confession and immediately rectified these sins, he can be assured that it was handled correctly and there is no extant penalty remaining for him now.

As for latae sententiae excommunications: many priests are delegated the faculty to lift these penalties in the confessional without contacting the ordinary. This includes all priests in the USA regarding the excommunication for abortion. If your confessor determines that you have indeed incurred a penalty that he is not able to directly lift or absolve, he will inform you and begin a process by which you can have it lifted. I am sure that this would be very clear to anyone so affected.

 

[Don_Jackson]

What does formally mean though? These instances of possible heresy or apostasy I’m speaking of were purely mental, manifested in my thoughts, occurring on two specific occasions, and as I said in my first post, I went to confession within a day both times.

This is exactly why canon law should be left to experts. Because we have simple access to the written canon law does not make any of us even remotely competent to claim how it applies to any given situation.

Talk to your priest, and go to confession, and pray…the answers you get from that will be far better from any of here.

 

[mike52ad]

“formally guilty of heresy, apostasy or schism”
The above is the key to this issue. If you have not been formally excommunicated by operation of Canon Law, you have not been excomunnicated.

At least that’s how I have been taught.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The only thing you did is excommunicate yourself through your rejection of God.

However, that excummunication is removed through confession.

In fact, as soon as you repent to God, your sins are forgiven.

Confession will reconcile you with the Church and you’ll be back in full communion and can receive the sacraments.

In all, faith isn’t about belief. Satan believes in God.

Faith is about giving your life to Jesus Christ and in return, he’ll reveal himself to you, however he chooses to do it, but he will if you are sincere and want him in your life.

Tonight, go to a quiet place with a Bible. Sit down and close your eyes and asked the Holy Spirit to come into your life and help you. Then, open your Bible to any page. Begin to read and don’t worry about whether you understand what you’re reading or not, just leave it to God to guide you.

Then, close your eyes and ask Jesus to come into your life.

The next day, observe how you feel.

God Bless You

Jim

 

[Swiss_Guy]

Bear with me here folks:

I was just reading Church teaching regarding automatic excommunications over here:
ewtn.com/expert/answers/heresy_schism_apostasy.htm

this part specifically:

When I was 20, (am 21 now) I was going through a very difficult time, my best friend had left the faith and become an atheist, and this left me very depressed and even doubting my own faith. And at one point things got so bad that on two occasions I resigned myself to just a mode of disbelief, It’s hard to remember, but it wasn’t a disbelief in God, I stilled believed in God through all this. But all these doubts about the truth of the Catholic faith came bearing down on me and I resigned myself to voluntary disbelief, thinking "how can this be true? I don’t see how this is true, I just don’t think I believe this, I want it to be true, but there just seems to be so much that doesn’t make sense, so many contradictions, I just don’t believe this " It wasn’t a premeditated sort of thing, it was just a spur of the moment of voluntary doubt in the anxiety of the doubts going through my head about my faith. And this happened on two occasions, but after each occasion I snapped to my senses and went to confession within a day, confessing having voluntary doubts against faith. Was this adequate enough?

But according to this article, which now having read it today, is reigniting memories of having read something similar long ago but I certainly was not aware of this Church law regarding things like schism, apostasy, heresy. etc when I committed these sins against faith. Now basically what I’m asking is, did I commit heresy, apostasy, or whatever? I’m quite concerned that I did, I don’t remember if my doubts spread to the entirety of the Christian gospel, I was way too overcome with grief and other temptations to really remember everything I doubted on.

Quoting from my link:

Now from this, it seems I committed heresy (or perhaps apostasy)

And if I did commit heresy or apostasy, does this mean I have been excommunicated the past several months, all the while going to mass, confession and so on without even knowing I’ve been excommunicated? This is just causing me a great deal of anxiety right now, answers appreciated.

You should be fine if you have received absolution.

Now I have a similar question: What if a priest believes in heresy? Is he excommunicated?

 

[TuAutem]

I second JimR-OCDS’ answer. You were excommunicated when you sinned, and you were restored to full communion within the body of Christ when you repented and confessed your sin. Simple as that. Remember *all *mortal sins cut us off from communion with God, and therefore excommunicate us. The canons only lay out explicit cases for when this needs to be *publicly *known, to avoid scandal.

(Canons are needed in this case, because in general the Church refrains from declaring any individual person a mortal sinner, on the grounds that only God knows the whole truth of one’s conscience, and because of Christ’s warning not to condemn a mote in our brother’s eye when we might have a beam in our own. The canons tell us specific cases when we can permissibly criticise our brother.)

But as far as we are concerned as individuals, it is our business to know when we have committed a mortal sin, and to convert anew and seek absolution as soon as possible if we have.

But when a priest absolves you of all your sins, have no doubt, you walk away from that confessional a Catholic in good standing, and with a clean slate!