Am I excommunicated?

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Windmill

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Hi all,

I know there are many here who are more liturgically adept than I am, so I am really counting on your help here.

I am a sacristan at our church. I have tried to keep up with liturgical updates and consider myself a little above average on liturgical norms.

Up until recently, at our church, the sacred vessels were cleaned by EMHC’s after Mass. Well, recently, our new priest changed things around and had the sacristans do this. There is only one sacristan per Mass, so I was stuck doing it by myself after Mass today.

So I’m back there and I realize that there are particles of Hosts still in the ciboria and some Precious Blood drops still in the priest’s Chalice.

Here was the dilemma: I deemed that I was not in a state of grace and needed to abstain from communion today. But I’m back in the sacristy and have all these vessels to clean. I guess I could have gone and found the priest or an EMHC, but then it would have been a case of me being forced to divulge the state of my soul (I’d be asked, “Why can’t you do it?”). So, I thought of how I could clean them. I remembered reading htat if you dilute the species to the point htat they are not recognizeable, then the accidents leave and the Presence leaves. So, I filled up the sacrarium with a bunch of water and poured the drops of Precious Blood and the small particles of the Host into the sacrarium.

Well, the host particles were still floating around in the gallons of water.

I was unsure what to do, and I had just read Redemptionis Sacramentum and remembered some part about not pouring hte sacred species down the sacrarium and some level of excommunication here (latae sentetia, whatever that meant). So I didn’t know what to do with the situation. So I let the water drain into the ground.

Now that I’m home, I’ve had time to look up that long latin word, and I’m freaking out.

What should I do?
 
The article in question: (Emphasis added)
[107.] In accordance with what is laid down by the canons, “one who throws away the consecrated species or takes them away or keeps them for a sacrilegious purpose, incurs a latae sententiae excommunication reserved to the Apostolic See; a cleric, moreover, may be punished by another penalty, not excluding dismissal from the clerical state”.[194] To be regarded as pertaining to this case is any action that is voluntarily and gravely disrespectful of the sacred species. Anyone, therefore, who acts contrary to these norms, for example casting the sacred species into the sacrarium or in an unworthy place or on the ground, incurs the penalties laid down.[195]
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vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html

Now I’m no canon lawyer, but my interpretation of this passage is that the excommunication is only in affect when the disposal of the sacred species is done for a sacriligeous purpose.

In your case, you clearly were not trying to be sacriligious. Rather, you were trying to treat the true presence with the utmost dignity and veneration available to you.

To that regard, you tried to properly dispoe of the sacred species by dilution (Although the highy suggested way is to fill the chalice with water, not the sink. Otherwise the above problem that resulted… results. You can’t expect people to bob for God in the sink.)

From how I see it, there are a few things in this whole situation that need to be addressed.
  1. If you judge yourself not to be in a state of grace, you should not be performing a role in the mass. That is an honor reserved to those in good standing with the church, among reasons being this whole outcome.
  2. Should you still serve in this role, not in a state of grace, then it is your duty to respect the sacrament at all costs, even at the price of your own humility. Seeking out another to purify the vessels would be the proper course of action.
  3. So we have pieces of the host floating around in the sink. Give it 20 more minutes. They’ll disolve soon enough. Then you can poor it down the sacrarium.
God’s blessings be with you in your desire to serve the lord. What it comes down to is go to your priest in confession, and tell him of this whole story. Let him give you the final say of what you need to do.

Josh
%between%
 
Why aren’t the ablutions done by the priest and EHMC’s immediately following communion?
 
Why aren’t the ablutions done by the priest and EHMC’s immediately following communion?
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They used to. I don’t know why they aren’t anymore. I think they should, especially since I am not an EMHC.

I wonder who I can contact about this to give me a little surety.
 
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Windmill:
Hi all,

I know there are many here who are more liturgically adept than I am, so I am really counting on your help here.

I am a sacristan at our church. I have tried to keep up with liturgical updates and consider myself a little above average on liturgical norms.

Up until recently, at our church, the sacred vessels were cleaned by EMHC’s after Mass. Well, recently, our new priest changed things around and had the sacristans do this. There is only one sacristan per Mass, so I was stuck doing it by myself after Mass today.

So I’m back there and I realize that there are particles of Hosts still in the ciboria and some Precious Blood drops still in the priest’s Chalice.

Here was the dilemma: I deemed that I was not in a state of grace and needed to abstain from communion today. But I’m back in the sacristy and have all these vessels to clean. I guess I could have gone and found the priest or an EMHC, but then it would have been a case of me being forced to divulge the state of my soul (I’d be asked, “Why can’t you do it?”). So, I thought of how I could clean them. I remembered reading htat if you dilute the species to the point htat they are not recognizeable, then the accidents leave and the Presence leaves. So, I filled up the sacrarium with a bunch of water and poured the drops of Precious Blood and the small particles of the Host into the sacrarium.

Well, the host particles were still floating around in the gallons of water.

I was unsure what to do, and I had just read Redemptionis Sacramentum and remembered some part about not pouring hte sacred species down the sacrarium and some level of excommunication here (latae sentetia, whatever that meant). So I didn’t know what to do with the situation. So I let the water drain into the ground.

Now that I’m home, I’ve had time to look up that long latin word, and I’m freaking out.

What should I do?
Click to expand...
You should have let the priest know. However it is improper to pour the Blood of Christ directly down the sacrarium. You did not do this. Under normal circumstances you should have mixed some water with the remaining Precious Blood and particles of the Blessed Sacrament and consumed them. Filling the ciborium with water and letting it stand for an hour or so would have disolved the particles. The water if it could not be comsumed could be put down the sacrarium.
 
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Windmill:
They used to. I don’t know why they aren’t anymore. I think they should, especially since I am not an EMHC.

I wonder who I can contact about this to give me a little surety.
Click to expand...
From the GIRM on the USCCB website:
  1. The sacred vessels are purified by the priest, the deacon, or an instituted acolyte after Communion or after Mass, insofar as possible at the credence table. The purification of the chalice is done with water alone or with wine and water, which is then drunk by whoever does the purification. The paten is usually wiped clean with the purificator.
Care must be taken that whatever may remain of the Blood of Christ after the distribution of Communion is consumed immediately and completely at the altar.

usccb.org/liturgy/current/chapter4.shtml#sect4
 
I understand these things now.

At the time, I was trying to do the right thing. I have emailed my priest to let him know my concerns. Hope fully we can rectify the situation to prevent future problems.

However, what i am now worried about is if I have excommunicated myself.
 
In the Tridentine Mass rite, the vessels are cleaned right at the altar by the priest, and the remaining consecrated Hosts are placed back in the Tabernacle. That is as it should be.
 
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Windmill:
I understand these things now.

At the time, I was trying to do the right thing. I have emailed my priest to let him know my concerns. Hope fully we can rectify the situation to prevent future problems.

However, what i am now worried about is if I have excommunicated myself.
Click to expand...
I don’t think so. You didn’t try to abuse the Host; quite the contrary.

However…I take it you don’t go to your parish priest for confession? Maybe you could go to your confessor as soon as possible and relieve yourself of this burden?
 
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hollingsworth:
In the Tridentine Mass rite, the vessels are cleaned right at the altar by the priest, and the remaining consecrated Hosts are placed back in the Tabernacle. That is as it should be.
Click to expand...
This is how it is in the N.O. Mass also. Apparently, the priest simply did not do a good enough job.
 
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hollingsworth:
In the Tridentine Mass rite, the vessels are cleaned right at the altar by the priest, and the remaining consecrated Hosts are placed back in the Tabernacle. That is as it should be.
Click to expand...
That is how it is done in our NO parish. The priest cleans the vessels and reserves any left over hosts. I have seen SOME priests however go and sit down and let the EMHC’s or an adult server take the vessels over to the credence to cleanse. personally I prefer the priest doing it at the altar as 1) it is safer 2) it gives the congregation time for reverent prayer … but that is just a personal preference. The priest should certainly not allow the vessels to be cleansed after mass in the sacristy and was placing the sacristans in an awkward position.
 
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Windmill:
I understand these things now.

At the time, I was trying to do the right thing. I have emailed my priest to let him know my concerns. Hope fully we can rectify the situation to prevent future problems.

However, what i am now worried about is if I have excommunicated myself.
Click to expand...
Windmill,

I’m not even convinced that you have committed a sin, even a venial sin. A lot of this is in the intent, and from what I gather from your posts your intent was to Do The Right Thing. That by itself makes it not sinful.

All in all, though, this forum is not the place to get definitive answers, and you should speak to your priest.
  • Liberian
 
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InnocentIII:
That is how it is done in our NO parish. The priest cleans the vessels and reserves any left over hosts. I have seen SOME priests however go and sit down and let the EMHC’s or an adult server take the vessels over to the credence to cleanse. personally I prefer the priest doing it at the altar as 1) it is safer 2) it gives the congregation time for reverent prayer … but that is just a personal preference. The priest should certainly not allow the vessels to be cleansed after mass in the sacristy and was placing the sacristans in an awkward position.
Click to expand...
I was a Eucharistic Minister in the NO. I cleansed the vessels and trays several times. I remember consecrated wine residue and crumbs of the consecrated Host being washed down the drain. I did this in ignorance, as a Protestant convert to the Novus Ordo, Later I confessed my participation in this sacrilege as a sin of ignorance. I no longer attend NO Masses. Laymen have no business handling these holy things.
 
Windmill,

I agree with threej_lc and Liberian, and suggest you speak to your pastor about it. Perhaps he will realize that he should have done it himself, or tasked a deacon or an acolyte to do so.
 
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severinus:
From the GIRM on the USCCB website:
  1. The sacred vessels are purified by the priest, the deacon, or an instituted acolyte after Communion or after Mass, insofar as possible at the credence table. The purification of the chalice is done with water alone or with wine and water, which is then drunk by whoever does the purification. The paten is usually wiped clean with the purificator.
Care must be taken that whatever may remain of the Blood of Christ after the distribution of Communion is consumed immediately and completely at the altar.
Click to expand...
:yup: :yup: :yup:
 
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hollingsworth:
I was a Eucharistic Minister in the NO. I cleansed the vessels and trays several times. I remember consecrated wine residue and crumbs of the consecrated Host being washed down the drain. I did this in ignorance, as a Protestant convert to the Novus Ordo, Later I confessed my participation in this sacrilege as a sin of ignorance. I no longer attend NO Masses. Laymen have no business handling these holy things.
Click to expand...
Hollingsworth,

**Amen ** to the last sentence of your paragraph!
 
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