Am I excommunicated?

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Last night I read the Catholic Answers’ Liturgical Abuse guide. I found with dismay: “one who throws away the consecrated species or takes them away or keeps them for a sacrilegious purpose incurs a latae sententiae [automatic] excommunication reserved to the Apostolic See…To be regarded as pertaining to this case is any action that is voluntarily and gravely disrespectful of the sacred species. Anyone, therefore, who acts contrary to these norms, for example casting the sacred species into the sacrarium or in an unworthy place or on the ground, incurs the penalties laid down (107; cf. CIC 1367)."

When I was trained as an altar boy, I was taught we could pour the Precious blood down the sacrarium. I never did, though. Last year, I was taught that we were allowed to use the sacrarium because “Jesus goes under the Chapel and makes it Holy.” I never did.

After Adoration this week, I placed the hosts back in the cyborium. Then, I used my finger to get the particles into the cyborium. After this, I took the luna and went into the sacristy. There I placed water in it, and dumped the water down the sacrarium. There may or may not have been particles in the luna. I was only trying to be reverent and pius. Oh man! If only I was taught correctly. Am I excommunicated?
 
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CatholicAJ:
Last night I read the Catholic Answers’ Liturgical Abuse guide. I found with dismay: “one who throws away the consecrated species or takes them away or keeps them for a sacrilegious purpose incurs a latae sententiae [automatic] excommunication reserved to the Apostolic See…When I was trained as an altar boy, I was taught we could pour the Precious blood down the sacrarium. . . After this, I took the luna and went into the sacristy. There I placed water in it, and dumped the water down the sacrarium. There may or may not have been particles in the luna. I was only trying to be reverent and pius. Oh man! If only I was taught correctly. Am I excommunicated?

You may be somewhat overly concerned. Be at peace. You acted in all good faith. What’s more what you did is correct by any standards. That’s what the sacrium is for.

May God bless and keep you always.
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CatholicAJ:
When I was trained as an altar boy, I was taught we could pour the Precious blood down the sacrarium. I never did, though. Last year, I was taught that we were allowed to use the sacrarium because "Jesus goes under the Chapel and makes it Holy." I never did.

After Adoration this week, I placed the hosts back in the cyborium. Then, I used my finger to get the particles into the cyborium. After this, I took the luna and went into the sacristy. There I placed water in it, and dumped the water down the sacrarium. There may or may not have been particles in the luna. I was only trying to be reverent and pius. Oh man! If only I was taught correctly. Am I excommunicated?
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I hope those comments are based on the abject ignorance of those who trained you, rather than outright evilness.

The sacrarium is used to dispose of water after the first rinsing of a sacred vessel. The water used in the initial rinsing must be consumed by either a cleric or a member of the laity.

Nope, your’s certainly not excommunicated for your actions. Next time simply consume the luna rinse water yourself…
 
Here’s the general rules for this. The Precious Blood may *never *be poured down the sacrarium. It should be consumed. If, however, there is so much left over that it cannot be consumed, it may be diluted with sufficient water that it is no longer considered wine. That may then be poured down the sacrarium.

Small particles of the Blessed Sacrament cease to be bread when mixed with sufficient quantities of water. If it is no longer bread then the Real Presence ceases. This mixture, provided there is sufficient water, may be poured down the sacrarium.

It sounds as if you did what was correct so do not worry.

Deacon Ed
 
Deacon Ed:
Here’s the general rules for this. The Precious Blood may *never *be poured down the sacrarium. It should be consumed. If, however, there is so much left over that it cannot be consumed, it may be diluted with sufficient water that it is no longer considered wine. That may then be poured down the sacrarium.

Small particles of the Blessed Sacrament cease to be bread when mixed with sufficient quantities of water. If it is no longer bread then the Real Presence ceases. This mixture, provided there is sufficient water, may be poured down the sacrarium.

It sounds as if you did what was correct so do not worry.

Deacon Ed
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Oh yeah? Where does the Church document either opinion you just provided?

The Precious Blood (not “wine”) cannot be simply diluted with water and then dumped down the sacrarium. It must be consumed. It would have to be a serious emergency for “so much left over” Precious Blood given the Church’s directions in the GIRM and RS regarding communion under both kinds.

Second, while we cannot get the vessels bristol clean with our fingers and/or a purificator, I would like to see where the Church even hints at “Small particles of the Blessed Sacrament cease to be bread when mixed with sufficient quantities of water.” I guess it depends on one’s definition of “small.”
 
Code of Canon Law 1323 states that “a person who without negligence was ignorant that he or she violated a law or precept” is “not subject to a penalty when [he or she has] violated a law or precept.” It adds that, “inadvertence and error are equivalent to ignorance”.

Moreover, Canon 1324 states that “a person who without negligence did not know that a penalty was attached to a law or precept” (§1.9) “is not bound by a latae sententiae penalty” (§3).

More here. Note that the age of the accused is also a factor. Fascinating stuff.
 
Deacon Ed,

The Precious Blood cannot be poured down the sacarium. Read Redemptionis Sacramentum it is stated there.

God Bless,
Fergal
 
Hey,

Just a question. I have never been an altar boy, nor do I know much about the proper disposal of leftovers from the Mass. However, I often help clean up after campus mass, which is held in a meeting house. One of my tasks is to take whatever water is left over in this glass vial (sorry, not very good with terminology) and dump it down the drinking fountain. Is this okay to do? I know that it would be wrong to dispose of the consecrated portions of the Eucharist, but what about the extra water? Am I being liturgically abusive?
 
Just to clarify: I already stated that the Precious Blood cannot be poured down the sacrarium. If, however, there is more than can be consumed (which itself is a violation of liturgical directives) the Precious Blood can be so diluted with water that it would no longer qualify as wine (sorry if I was unclear on this). If it no longer has the accidents of wine then there is no Real Presence.

The same is true of small particles of the Blessed Sacrament. If they are so mixed with water as to cease having the accidents of bread then the Real Presence ceases. This is an extension of the principle behind GIRM 280 which deal with spilled Precious Blood – the water used to wash the spot is poured down the sacrarium.

What is prohibited is pouring the Precious Blood directly down the sacrarium.

Now, what I have written here should be the exceptional case. In fact, it should never happen. One should never have more Precious Blood than can be consumed – and one can always get members of the faithful to help in the consumption, it doesn’t have to be the ordinary and extraordinary ministers.

Deacon Ed
 
Deacon Ed:
Just to clarify: I already stated that the Precious Blood cannot be poured down the sacrarium. If, however, there is more than can be consumed (which itself is a violation of liturgical directives) the Precious Blood can be so diluted with water that it would no longer qualify as wine (sorry if I was unclear on this). If it no longer has the accidents of wine then there is no Real Presence.

The same is true of small particles of the Blessed Sacrament. If they are so mixed with water as to cease having the accidents of bread then the Real Presence ceases. This is an extension of the principle behind GIRM 280 which deal with spilled Precious Blood – the water used to wash the spot is poured down the sacrarium.

What is prohibited is pouring the Precious Blood directly down the sacrarium.

Now, what I have written here should be the exceptional case. In fact, it should never happen. One should never have more Precious Blood than can be consumed – and one can always get members of the faithful to help in the consumption, it doesn’t have to be the ordinary and extraordinary ministers.

Deacon Ed
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This is bad advice.

The hard focus is on NEVER to confect more Precious Blood that can be consumed at a Mass. The GIRM and RS make it clear that we are not to have holy communion under both kinds if there is difficulty in ascertaining how much wine to consecrate.

If people foul-up, and too much Precious Blood is consecrated, it must be consumed.

The only time I could think that the Precious Blood could be handled in the situation you describe is something that would only be used in extraordinarily rare emgergencies – like someone sounding the alarm (after the consecration) that the flagon used to the hold the wine was contaminated with poison, or someone getting sick into a chalice. Something that will never happen to the great majority of us (or others in our presence) in our lifetimes.

Unfortunately your advice could well lead people to abuse. “Don’t worry, if we have too much Precious Blood left over, we’ll just dilute it and then dump it down the old sacrarium…”

The bottom line that one would NEVER take the action you described becuse there was “too much” Precious Blood to consume. That’s simply impossible.
 
Crusader,

You really do need to read my entire post before you assert that it is “bad advice.” For example, you seem to have skipped the entire last paragraph which reads:
Now, what I have written here should be the exceptional case. In fact, it should never happen. One should never have more Precious Blood than can be consumed – and one can always get members of the faithful to help in the consumption, it doesn’t have to be the ordinary and extraordinary ministers.
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We have to deal with every possibilty, and that’s what my answer does.

Deacon Ed
 
Deacon Ed:
Crusader,

You really do need to read my entire post before you assert that it is “bad advice.” For example, you seem to have skipped the entire last paragraph which reads:
We have to deal with every possibilty, and that’s what my answer does.

Deacon Ed
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Nope. You’re trying to gloss-over the incorrect information you gave. From your first posting:

“Here’s the general rules for this. The Precious Blood may never be poured down the sacrarium. It should be consumed. If, however, there is so much left over that it cannot be consumed, it may be diluted with sufficient water that it is no longer considered wine. That may then be poured down the sacrarium.”

That’s just not going to happen. Ever.

There could possibly be a horrible catastrophe as I mentioned earlier that might for instance pollute the Precious Blood where it could not be consumed, but there would never be a case where the Precious Blood was diluted and dumped down the sacrarium because so much is left over. That would be completely unacceptable.

Even if they was a great amount left over, it would need to be consumed. Period.

It’s horrible to suggest otherwise.
 
Crusader,

I just finished checking the current directives, and I withdraw my comments on diluting the precious blood and pouring it down the sacrarium. This practice, although common 10 years ago, is now prohibited. All remaining precious blood must be consumed, regardless of the quantity.

Deacon Ed
 
This practice, although common 10 years ago, is now prohibited.
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When you say “common 10 years ago” do you mean that the Church actually authorized it, or simply that it was a common abuse?
 
Oh, and I have to give props to CRUSADER. For once, he was actually right about something. I guess it was bound to happen. Kudos, kid!

👍
 
Deacon Ed:
Crusader,

I just finished checking the current directives, and I withdraw my comments on diluting the precious blood and pouring it down the sacrarium. This practice, although common 10 years ago, is now prohibited. All remaining precious blood must be consumed, regardless of the quantity.

Deacon Ed
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Where did the Church ever suggest that surplus (but consumable) Precious Blood could be disposed of, other than by human consumption?
 
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Crusader:
Where did the Church ever suggest that surplus (but consumable) Precious Blood could be disposed of, other than by human consumption?
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I have a procedure from 10 years ago that states precisely what I stated. I don’t know what authority issued it since it was contained in a collection of documents and it is unattributed.

Deacon Ed
 
Deacon Ed:
Crusader,

I just finished checking the current directives, and I withdraw my comments on diluting the precious blood and pouring it down the sacrarium. This practice, although common 10 years ago, is now prohibited. All remaining precious blood must be consumed, regardless of the quantity.

Deacon Ed
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I have to apologize for being so strident on this matter, but I come from a parish that was abusive with the handling of the Precious Blood for quite some time.

Much of the abuse was based on urban legend, and it scares me to think of people possibly mishandling the Precious Blood based on information gleaned herein.
 
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