Am I Failing In My Duty? My Anti-Theist/Atheist Friend

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My friend has good morals. He is a good person, he has not problems as far as I’m aware. But he hates religion and I think he fails to even consider the possibility of God existing. When I tell him that there is no proof against God he dismisses this as a pathetic argument.
I suggest you borrow from the old Zen saying, “It is hard to fill a cup that is already full.” It also helps to stop always thinking your friend has got ‘good morals.’ As much as I try to think the best of people, you need to draw a line when they are not exhibiting humane behavior.

Anyone with the level of hatred purported by anti-theists is no more different than the Westboro cult. The lack of respect towards other people’s religion is not a wrong in just Catholicism. It is a wrong recognized even among atheists because of it’s a lack of respect to a basic human right.

Frankly, if I met your friend, I would be disgusted with him regardless if I were a Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, or even Wiccan. Would you blast atheists with so much hatred? Who is he then to preach his message?
 
I, too, have a friend who is a recent atheist (of about 2 yrs). He’d been faltering for many years, so I suppose it wasn’t all that surprising. Still it shocked me, since he’d been baptized & raised Catholic.

I continue to pray for him, since we do not talk about religion. I am comforted by reading stories of those who were atheist & converted to Catholicism, like Fr Don Calloway. Wow - what a story! He was totally unchurched, but God drew him in, through our Blessed Mother Mary. fathercalloway.com/

I just finished reading the book, From Atheism to Catholicism: How Scientists and Philosophers Led Me to the Truth by Kevin Vost. You can order a copy at Amazon.com.

And then there is blogger, Jennifer Fullweiler. Read her story in the Nat’l Catholic Register:
ncregister.com/site/article/17568/

And Sandra Elam: atheisttocatholic.com/from-atheist-to-catholic/

Remember to pray especially at the consecration at Mass; lift up your friend in prayer that the Holy Spirit would open his heart to the awesome Truth of God’s Love and Mercy. Pray that you will be ready to answer his questions when the moment comes. Study apologetics (www.catholic.com!) and other sites.

Worse than being an atheist & being vehemently against religion is not caring about religion or the Big Questions at all!

Blessed Lent,
Mimi
 
I, too, have a friend who is a recent atheist (of about 2 yrs). He’d been faltering for many years, so I suppose it wasn’t all that surprising. Still it shocked me, since he’d been baptized & raised Catholic.

I continue to pray for him, since we do not talk about religion. I am comforted by reading stories of those who were atheist & converted to Catholicism, like Fr Don Calloway. Wow - what a story! He was totally unchurched, but God drew him in, through our Blessed Mother Mary. fathercalloway.com/

I just finished reading the book, From Atheism to Catholicism: How Scientists and Philosophers Led Me to the Truth by Kevin Vost. You can order a copy at Amazon.com.

And then there is blogger, Jennifer Fullweiler. Read her story in the Nat’l Catholic Register:
ncregister.com/site/article/17568/

And Sandra Elam: atheisttocatholic.com/from-atheist-to-catholic/

Remember to pray especially at the consecration at Mass; lift up your friend in prayer that the Holy Spirit would open his heart to the awesome Truth of God’s Love and Mercy. Pray that you will be ready to answer his questions when the moment comes. Study apologetics (www.catholic.com!) and other sites.

Worse than being an atheist & being vehemently against religion is not caring about religion or the Big Questions at all!

Blessed Lent,
Mimi
I also have a friend, who is exactly as you describe yours. I do not talk to him often, we live in different states now, but we were confirmed together, and were very close friends in High School.

I have watched post after post on Facebook from him, degrading and humiliating any religion. Going as far as saying “Christians are unintelligent”. I hid him on Facebook so I would no longer see his poison, but I am often haunted by it in my mind.

I can not understand how someone whom I thought was so close to Christ, is now a non believer. Not only a Non believer, but the very sort of person who is attempting to break down the lost souls.

I often become sad at what is becoming of so many things around us. People are desensitized, lost. All I can do is pray, I feel like there is nothing else I can do,
 
As for different techniques – let your life be an example of God’s love and of loving God. That is how I began drifting from the Wiccan beliefs to the Catholic beliefs (through watching how my Catholic friend lived her life). If you’re giving him Catholic or any other types of Christian literature, he may feel as though your shoving it down his throat and, in turn, he’ll REALLY reject it.
👍

That is very good advice. I came back to Catholicism from heathen beliefs through seeing the example of 2 people I know and how they live their lives.

Do not try to push ideas or literature on him, it will most likely be counter-productive. He’s highly unlikely to even read it and he may consider you to be a ‘religious crank’ as a result, which might damage your friendship and drive him away from you. Remember that the act of trying to get someone to ‘come over’ to us is not about doing it because it is the right thing for YOU to do, it is about doing it because it is the right thing for HIM to do.

Coming on ‘heavy’ to him is only likely to push him away. Be a good friend as you have been, value his friendship as you would any good friend (be they atheist or believer) and show through the example of how you live your life that you have something that inspires him through your treatment of your fellow man.
 
I think atheism is very unscientific. We can’t say conclusively that something doesn’t exist just because we have no proof of it. At best, we can say it may or may not exist, but we’ve no proof. So agnosticism is about as far as you can go without being illogical.

I can’t prove that your pet cat exists. You may have a cat, you may not, I have no proof either way. But for me to say conclusively that you do not have a cat, solely based on a lack of proof for it, would be totally illogical. At best, I can claim agnosticism, which is “a -gnosis”, that is, “without knowledge.”

Hope that makes some sense. It made sense in my brain: ).

I would ask him what kind of a God it is that he has rejected. Often, I think, atheism is really a straw man argument: it’s a particular God-image they have that can’t possibly exist. For example, my sister-in-law rejects the God her mother taught her about: the one who is opposed to Evolution or any kind of hard science, the one who is a picture of an old man with a long gray beard and a triangle on his head that she learned about from pre-Vatican II children’s books, the kind who judges and overreacts and really doesn’t love, the one who expects humans to believe based on the “because I said so” sort of argument. I reject that God too, thankfully that’s not the One who actually exists!

So you could ask him about this God he rejects, where he got that image, and then explain to him the philosophical arguments for God. Catholics, for instance, and I think Anglicans also, since your basic theology comes straight from Catholicism, believe that God is Truth, Beauty, and Goodness. We believe that God is Love (not in some silly new age way, or like Santa Claus is the generous spirit of Christmas type way). God is omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent, and omniscient. God is the Ultimate Cause (or “Causeless Cause”, “Uncaused Cause”), the Prime Mover, etc. God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, but we need to remember that these are the analogies that God gives us to understand His nature. God is also referred to as mother, as pure spirit, as the “alpha and the omega”, etc. in the Bible. God is Father, in the sense of parent, source of our creation, strength, etc. but He is so much more than that, as that is just the tiny bit of understanding that fits into our brains. I think it was St. Augustine who had the image of the boy trying to pour the ocean into a hole in the sand, and the boy said, “neither can you understand God with your finite mind.”

It might be that he rejects God based on the problems he sees in religion. Fair enough as most people see it, but to expect people to be accurate imitators of the divine and then to reject the divine when people fail is a bit unfair. People often hold religions to higher standards than they hold any other kind of institution. Nothing run by humans really works that great, as we can see by looking at any company, government, organization of any kind. Doesn’t mean it’s wrong or was a bad idea all along - just means that people screw up everything we touch. That’s our nature. Because we’re not God.

So, find out on what basis he rejects his perception of what God is, and then counteract it.

My points out that atheism is really “me-theism”, that atheists generally are replacing God in their lives with themselves as the arbiters of truth and morality. That’s much more illogical than subscribing to a way of life that’s worked for thousands of years for most people on the planet, and is responsible for the creation of hospitals, universities, orphanages, most modern science, and all kind of charity. I see you’re from the U.K. Look at your own history. What happened when the Church was suppressed and the monasteries were shut down? Prior to that time, charitable work was taken care of by the Church and anyone could depend on it, whatever the abuses of the Church were, it took care of the poor, the insane, etc. With the Church suppressed, up rose poor houses, work houses, and the ways of life we read about in Dickens. So, yes, organized religion has problems and has caused problems, but it’s also done a LOT of good.

Or, just keep praying and let it rest a while. Sometimes the best thing to do is just drop it, maintain the friendship as best you can, and let your life speak for itself. I would recommend that you continue to educate yourself as to why you believe what you believe (I think it’s in Timothy that St Peter says to always be prepared to give a reason for your faith, in charity and truth) just in case the subject comes up organically some time. But if he’s that touchy about it, continuing to beat the dead horse won’t help, and probably will make it worse.
 
Your friend has perfectly good reason to be angry at Christianity. The beliefs of others are dictated by many factors outside our control. He probably didn’t grow up with religion in the household. He probably observed and learned about many of the countless atrocities perpetuated by the Christian Church. He has probably never observed evidence for this God yet observed much evidence against. As for your comment, there is no proof that God doesnt exist, there doesn’t need to be proof, the burden of proof is on the Christians, not the Atheists. We already have ample evidence that humans cannot asexually reproduce, humans cannot return from the dead after three days, the miracles tha Jesus performed are not possible. We atheists do not need to prove anything.
However, I will give you a piece of evidence that Christianity does not exist using your own comment: So recently I gave up. Not on everyone, just on him. I still pray for him of course but so far nothing has happened. I pray that he will find God, but I am not hopeful.
Are you familiar with Mathew 17:20? “For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.” According to this verse either you don’t have true faith or your Savior is nothing but a lie. As for the Holy Spirit, why doesn’t it convert everyone? Aren’t there people praying for that all the time? Why would he reveal himself to some but not others? The answers are simple, your beliefs are dependent on your upbringing and your social situation and your birthplace, not the Holy Spirit nor your false messiah.
Take a look at my site, maybe you will learn something: myantitheism.com/
 
He probably observed and learned about many of the countless atrocities perpetuated by the Christian Church.
Every organized body has perpetuated its fair share of ‘countless atrocities.’ Atheists included. (Soviets say hi by the way.) Don’t waste your time evangelizing your non-belief here because that not only gets you kicked out but spreads the very falsehoods you hypocritically wish to ‘purge.’

You proselytizing anti-theists make me laugh as much the street preaching loons on YT.
 
Every organized body has perpetuated its fair share of ‘countless atrocities.’ Atheists included. (Soviets say hi by the way.)
Yes, atheists have committed their fair share of crimes, but there is a big difference, they didn’t commit them BECAUSE they were atheists, they weren’t following some atheists handbook. The genocide of the Americas, the inquisition and many other atrocities were committed by Christians using the bible as justification.

Also, I am sorry you are unable to handle differing points of view. Pretty sad how closed minded you are.
www.myantitheism.com
 
Yes, atheists have committed their fair share of crimes, but there is a big difference, they didn’t commit them BECAUSE they were atheists, they weren’t following some atheists handbook. The genocide of the Americas, the inquisition and many other atrocities were committed by Christians using the bible as justification.
Uh-huh. Right. As if their Patriarch Karl Marx had only sweet things to say about God and religion. Nothing to do with atheism at all. Nope. :rolleyes:
Also, I am sorry you are unable to handle differing points of view. Pretty sad how closed minded you are.
Yep, that’s what they all say. Pretty sad how self-promotional you are. Jack Chick would be proud. :rolleyes:
 
Yes, atheists have committed their fair share of crimes, but there is a big difference, they didn’t commit them BECAUSE they were atheists, they weren’t following some atheists handbook.
If that were the case, then they would not have singled out religious persons for persecution. The record, however, shows that religious persons bore a disproportionate amount of persecution under the Marxist/Stalinist regime. The alleged lack of a handbook is irrelevant.
 
We could argue about this all day which would be pointless. The thing that we can’t argue about is the existence of God. Go visit my blog and read what the majority of the world think about the judeo-Christian God. Read the About section and then explain to me how this God can exist. I didn’t start out as an Atheist/Anti-theist. www.myantitheism.com
 
My best friend has described himself as both an atheist and an anti-theist. He hates practically all religion with a passion and has been insulting to my faith on a number of occasions, although I’ve put up with it. I have tried to help him find God but to no avail. I feel he is shut off to the whole concept of religion itself and any attempts have been met with practical pure anger from him.

So recently I gave up. Not on everyone, just on him. I still pray for him of course but so far nothing has happened. I pray that he will find God, but I am not hopeful.

My friend has good morals. He is a good person, he has not problems as far as I’m aware. But he hates religion and I think he fails to even consider the possibility of God existing. When I tell him that there is no proof against God he dismisses this as a pathetic argument.

At this stage I am not hoping for a full transformation where he will meet me on Monday and will be singing praise to God. At this stage I am simply hoping that he will accept the possibility of God-that would be a start.

I have a few questions.

Do you think I am failing in my duty to try and convert him?

What other techniques/ideas could I make use of to help him find God?

Have you ever had an experience of trying to convert someone similar to my friend, who was so vehemently opposed to Christianity/all other religions? What happened in the end, did you succeed in changing them?

Thank you for your answers in advance, God Bless you all.

P.S-I’m not trying to convert him to any particular denomination, Church of England or Catholic, so saying show him Catholic literature etc. wouldn’t be very helpful. I’m just trying to help him find God. If he does find God he can worry about his own church/denomination.

God Bless.
You have planted the seed now you must let the Holy Spirit cultivate it so to speak. I speak with atheists and converting them should not be the main goal. The goal should be removing the obstacles in their way so they may come to Christ. Continue praying for him as well.
 
We could argue about this all day which would be pointless.
Finally, something you say that actually has substance. Now, if only you would extend that to the pointlessness of proselytizing. Then you’d really be enlightened (and cease your self-centered self-promotion). Your friends over at Westboro and Chick Publications have already done this before. You’re one and the same. Seriously. I’ve wasted enough time on propaganda sites. I’ll stick to Fox News if I wanted myself fed with it. :rolleyes:

I’d sooner click your link had you been selling me toasters than yet another preachy worldview. Think my religion isn’t so special? Neither is your lack of one.
 
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