Am I going to Hell according to the Church?

[Is_it_okay_to]

Much has been said here that I hope you take to heart.

What you describe in your post is the mind of the typical cafeteria Catholic who chooses to dissent from settled and official Catholic teaching on various intrinsically evil things (e.g., abortion, contraception, homosexual acts). This is a sin against faith–divine or religious faith–as well as a sin, in this case, of contraceptive withdrawal (Onanism), if I understand correctly what you’re describing. (I’m not concerned here with marital foreplay that ends in vaginal intercourse.)

When we talk about the conditions for committing a mortal sin (objectively grave matter, sufficient knowledge, full consent of the will), the Catholic cannot say that he knows what the Church teaches but he disagrees with it. If he knows what the Church teaches, he has already met the second condition. He may not understand the teaching but he is obliged to accept and follow it.

I suppose we all struggle with this at one time or another over. It calls for conversion. And Lent is a good time for that.

 

[CMatt25]

Nancy Pelosi is a Catholic who disagrees with Church teaching regarding abortion. Aside from this one issue, she is pretty much in-line with most of the Church’s teachings. And she said she has done much soul searching and states that her conscience is clear. How do you think she will be judged before God?

I wouldn’t begin to presume or judge

 

[Vile_Servant]

I wouldn’t begin to presume or judge

No matter. We will all be judged one day.

 

[OraLabora]

What you describe in your post is the mind of the typical cafeteria Catholic who chooses to dissent from settled and official Catholic teaching on various intrinsically evil things (e.g., abortion, contraception, homosexual acts). This is a sin against faith–divine or religious faith–as well as a sin, in this case, of contraceptive withdrawal (Onanism), if I understand correctly what you’re describing. (I’m not concerned here with marital foreplay that ends in vaginal intercourse.)

First of all there is a difference between dissenting from a teaching, and being too weak to apply the teaching in one’s life. If we were brutally honest with ourselves, I think each and every one of us will fall into the latter category. And that weakness may even extend to an inability to understand a teaching, which makes assenting to it difficult for many, if not a huge effort.

It’s therefore a bit disingenuous to label someone a “cafeteria Catholic”. I prefer the term “imperfect Catholic”, because we all are to an extent or another.

There’s another level of dissent, when we disagree with a teaching but in humble obedience do our best to conform to it.

As Catholics we have brains. I still harbor a couple of private areas of serious doubt, but I don’t broadcast what they are as I don’t want to mislead anyone. It may be that when I come to a fuller understanding of the issues in question I will be able to comply 100%. The important thing to note is that I am not stubbornly shutting out the possibility that I may be wrong, but as I understand the issue on this day, I have trouble admitting the Church is right. But I do think that blind disobedience is in itself not Catholic either. We should obey because we thought things out to the best of our abilities.

 

[kage_ar]

I wouldn’t begin to presume or judge

We are required to judge actions and offer fraternal correction. That is part of being a Christian!

We cannot judge souls, that will happen at the end of time.

 

[puzzleannie]

CCC 2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. "Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him."

The above is the official Church teaching and not a lay opinion. Any Catholic rejecting one or more of the Church teachings commits heresy.

which does not answer OP’s question. nobody can say who will and will not go to hell. That judgement is made by God at the moment of death, and he will give you all the information you need to make that decision, enlightening areas that remained dark while you lived, answering those doubts and unanswered questions, informing your intellect with anything that was lacking in your lifetime.

I think your question is not “am I going to hell” but “how do I know what is God’s will for me” and that is where you want to direct your spiritual effort. We all struggle with the fundamental virtue of humility, and admitting that we ourselves are not the best source of knowledge and that God gave us the Church precisely to guide us in these decisions. Just because your opinions now, based on incomplete information, bad advice or bad teaching, or even for some people an obstinate refusal to consider Church teaching, do not agree completely with the Church, that is a far cry from heresy (unless you write a book or start your own talk show to promote your views) nor does it definitely reflect what your fate will be after death.

The fact that you are still asking, still open to instruction, shows your are not an unrepentent obstinate heretic.

 

[baylee]

Forgive me if I didn’t read closely enough and missed it, but I don’t think anyone has resolved the issue of whether the OP goes to confession regarding this matter. He does not believe it is a sin, so to confess it would not be a good confession would it (because he’s probably going to do it again)? And if he goes to confession and leaves it out, that’s not a good confession either, right?

Excuse the expression, but isn’t he damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t? LOL

 

[kage_ar]

Forgive me if I didn’t read closely enough and missed it, but I don’t think anyone has resolved the issue of whether the OP goes to confession regarding this matter. He does not believe it is a sin, so to confess it would not be a good confession would it (because he’s probably going to do it again)? And if he goes to confession and leaves it out, that’s not a good confession either, right?

Excuse the expression, but isn’t he damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t? LOL

Let’s say tomorrow I decide that I no longer believe that adultery is a sin.

I go and start sleeping with all the men on my block

Does that make it less of a sin?

Nope, in fact, the three conditions for mortal sin are

Grave Matter
Knowledge
Intent

Notice, it says nothing about “belief”. Belief is a choice I make. I also have to live and die with the results of that choice.

 

[camerong]

Nancy Pelosi is a Catholic who disagrees with Church teaching regarding abortion. Aside from this one issue, she is pretty much in-line with most of the Church’s teachings.

Wow. This is not even remotely true. Are we talking about the same Nancy Pelosi? Advocate for abortion rights? For rights for practicing homosexuals? I think the only way she could be further from in-line with the Church’s teachings is if she started a government program advocating premarital sex…

But back to the OP. This is one of the clearest questions I’ve ever seen posted on Moral Theology. OP—its clearly a grave sin, and the fact that you commit it with a thorough knowledge of the Church’s stance and with such thought and meditation is awfully scary. No one can judge whether another is in mortal sin, but with you we could come a lot closer than most.

Here’s an important question not yet raised–are you so certain that Church is wrong that you would bet your immortal soul?

 

[baylee]

Let’s say tomorrow I decide that I no longer believe that adultery is a sin.

I go and start sleeping with all the men on my block

Does that make it less of a sin?

Nope, in fact, the three conditions for mortal sin are

Grave Matter
Knowledge
Intent

Notice, it says nothing about “belief”. Belief is a choice I make. I also have to live and die with the results of that choice.

And you still haven’t answered the question…does he confess this despite what he thinks? If so, how is that a “good” confession?

 

[thistle]

**which does not answer OP’s question. nobody can say who will and will not go to hell. That judgement is made by God at the moment of death, and he will give you all the information you need to make that decision, enlightening areas that remained dark while you lived, answering those doubts and unanswered questions, informing your intellect with anything that was lacking in your lifetime. **
I think your question is not “am I going to hell” but “how do I know what is God’s will for me” and that is where you want to direct your spiritual effort. We all struggle with the fundamental virtue of humility, and admitting that we ourselves are not the best source of knowledge and that God gave us the Church precisely to guide us in these decisions. Just because your opinions now, based on incomplete information, bad advice or bad teaching, or even for some people an obstinate refusal to consider Church teaching, do not agree completely with the Church, that is a far cry from heresy (unless you write a book or start your own talk show to promote your views) nor does it definitely reflect what your fate will be after death.

The fact that you are still asking, still open to instruction, shows your are not an unrepentent obstinate heretic.

I did answer the OP’s question in an earlier post.

Only God knows who ends up in Hell.

What we can say is the following:

• Objectively, any Catholic who rejects one or more of the Church’s teachings is in a state of mortal sin.
• Objectively, any Catholic who dies in a state of unrepented mortal sin goes to Hell.

The OP (not us) will know if this applies to him/her.

 

[camerong]

And you still haven’t answered the question…does he confess this despite what he thinks? If so, how is that a “good” confession?

No, he cannot have a good confession. He needs to confess not only the sexual sin but his conscious rejection of the Church, and resolve to no longer reject the Church. If you’re asking how can he be restored to a state of grace while still maintaining that the Church is wrong here, he simply cannot.

 

[kage_ar]

And you still haven’t answered the question…does he confess this despite what he thinks? If so, how is that a “good” confession?

One can only confess if one repents and changes one’s life.

One cannot repent and want to keep sinning.

We go to hell for unrepentant sin.

 

[KarmaChameleon]

Let’s say tomorrow I decide that I no longer believe that adultery is a sin.

I go and start sleeping with all the men on my block

Does that make it less of a sin?

Nope, in fact, the three conditions for mortal sin are

Grave Matter
Knowledge
Intent

Notice, it says nothing about “belief”. Belief is a choice I make. I also have to live and die with the results of that choice.

I suppose I struggle with 2 of these conditions where this matter is concerned: 1.) I am not convinced that this “sin” constitutes grave matter, and 2.) After sufficient reflection, I remain unconvinced that these actions are wrong, so how can all the conditions for mortal sin be met?

Also, I have a real problem with the heresy issue. Are we honestly being told that if we fundamentally disagree with a single teaching of the CC after much reflection and study and even prayer, that we are heretical and thus in a state of mortal sin if we choose to act according to our own consciences instead of being blindly led? I have always been taught (by Catholic priests, no less) that it is I and I ALONE who am responsible for my soul and that blindly following ANYONE’S idea of right and wrong is problematic at best and can lead to eternal damnation at worst. Even the Catholic Church is comprised of men.

The question, I suppose is, can the Catholic Church, an institution comprised of FALLIBLE men, be wrong? Of course. So if the CC is wrong about something fundamental, a person following the CC despite their own conscience might be guilty of mortal sin, but a person committing heresy and acting according to their personal beliefs is in a state of mortal sin? talk about being damned if you do and damned if you don’t. Now I’m really confused!

 

[OraLabora]

And you still haven’t answered the question…does he confess this despite what he thinks? If so, how is that a “good” confession?

I think he should confess. And I think he should be open to the priest about his dissent on the issue.

If he doesn’t believe that his sin is a sin, because of a malformed conscience, then the sin isn’t the act… it’s not taking the opportunity to properly form his conscience.

Perhaps what he needs is spiritual direction, but by bringing it up in the confessional, it is a teaching opportunity and if the priest recommends spiritual direction instead of confession, he can at least make sure he gets connected with the right people.

It could very well be that he gets, from the priest hearing the confession, the last missing piece of the puzzle to properly form his conscience. One really shouldn’t pass up the opportunity.

 

[baylee]

I think he should confess. And I think he should be open to the priest about his dissent on the issue.

If he doesn’t believe that his sin is a sin, because of a malformed conscience, then the sin isn’t the act… it’s not taking the opportunity to properly form his conscience.

Perhaps what he needs is spiritual direction, but by bringing it up in the confessional, it is a teaching opportunity and if the priest recommends spiritual direction instead of confession, he can at least make sure he gets connected with the right people.

It could very well be that he gets, from the priest hearing the confession, the last missing piece of the puzzle to properly form his conscience. One really shouldn’t pass up the opportunity.

Thank you…you always take the time to write thoughtful, compassionate posts. I hope he comes back to see your response.

 

[kage_ar]

I suppose I struggle with 2 of these conditions where this matter is concerned: 1.) I am not convinced that this “sin” constitutes grave matter, and 2.) After sufficient reflection, I remain unconvinced that these actions are wrong, so how can all the conditions for mortal sin be met?

As was suggested, find a spiritual director who is a faithful, orthodox priest.

There is a big difference between what you know (you do know the Church teaches this is wrong) and what you choose to accept.

I know that those cookies have calories, I can choose to not accept that fact and eat 10 of them, my refusal to believe that the cookies have calories will not stop me from getting fat.

 

[KarmaChameleon]

I think he should confess. And I think he should be open to the priest about his dissent on the issue.

If he doesn’t believe that his sin is a sin, because of a malformed conscience, then the sin isn’t the act… it’s not taking the opportunity to properly form his conscience.

Perhaps what he needs is spiritual direction, but by bringing it up in the confessional, it is a teaching opportunity and if the priest recommends spiritual direction instead of confession, he can at least make sure he gets connected with the right people.

It could very well be that he gets, from the priest hearing the confession, the last missing piece of the puzzle to properly form his conscience. One really shouldn’t pass up the opportunity.

Thank you. I really like this response and will definitely discuss it with my priest at my next confession