Am I Going to Hell Now?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Nelka

New member
I am sad, I read what the Pope said about the big bang and evolution, I checked on more sites to make sure, I can never believe the big bang and even more so evolution. If the Pope wants to believe this and leaves us to choose then I am fine with it but now I feel I am committing heresy by refusing to believe this.

I am suddenly depressed, I was happy before I read it, I will never believe it, please tell me that I must refuse Catholic teaching and not the Pope’s opinion to commit heresy as the Catechism confuses me.

I never thought a Pope would make me feel like this, I hope I am blowing it all out of proportion.

:imsorry:
 
What the pope said is nothing new. I can even remember way back in the 1950’s and 1960’s that the Church said that it was fine to believe in evolution, as long as you believe that God is in charge of the whole thing and sets it in motion. Of course, if you believe that in a certain 24-hour period God said, “Let there be an earth,” there is nothing wrong with that either.

Here are some things to think about. Isn’t it interesting that the Bible states the series of events in the same order as scientists do?

It is also interesting that God said that man was made from the clay of the earth. I remember looking at a science show on TV, and they were talking about all of the little one-celled creatures that live in a shovelful of dirt. If evolution is true, then God did take some clay and formed it until there were living creatures in it. Then it all unfolded from there.

I don’t believe that the Church really has a doctrine about whether or not to believe in evolution. So if you believe it, fine, and if you don’t believe it, that’s fine, too.
 
I don’t believe that the Church really has a doctrine about whether or not to believe in evolution. So if you believe it, fine, and if you don’t believe it, that’s fine, too.
Thank You, I don’t mind what people want to believe but man coming from apes doesn’t fit into my head.

I was supposed to go to bed half an hour ago (it’s nearly midnight) as I have to get up early for work but was too worried.
 
At the moment you are free to agree or disagree.

But to say you will “never believe it” seems unneccessary. Why be close minded to matters of science that do not at all undermine our religion?

Are you aware that the big bang theory was proposed by a Belgian priest, Fr. Georges Lemaître? It is not some secular, athiest conspiracy to make religion redundant.
 
Just remember God’s Ways are far above man’s ways. And the God reveals Himself to us in ways that He wants.

God exists outside of time, so a ‘day’ to us is not the same as to God.

I think it important to try to understand that God has always existed. There is no source that produced God. We accept this as a matter of Faith.

It is also important, IMO, that we understand that nothing existed without it coming from God’s Intent. As our science gets better (long after Genesis was written) and we see proof of an extremely large universe, we should accept that all that came from God. Whether it was literally in 6, 24 hour days, or some other ‘time’ measurement is a minor detail.

I believe my Faith requires me to believe that
  1. God does exist.
  2. We each have an immortal soul.
  3. We each are destined to spend eternity in either Heaven or Hell.
  4. Jesus Christ is the Living Son of God.
  5. Christ cannot and did not lie.
  6. Everything Christ said is important, but these are most essential, IMO:
Matthew 16: 15-19
John 6: 51-56
Luke 22: 19-20
John 20: 19-23
John 14: 23-26
 
I am sad, I read what the Pope said about the big bang and evolution, I checked on more sites to make sure, I can never believe the big bang and even more so evolution. If the Pope wants to believe this and leaves us to choose then I am fine with it but now I feel I am committing heresy by refusing to believe this.

I am suddenly depressed, I was happy before I read it, I will never believe it, please tell me that I must refuse Catholic teaching and not the Pope’s opinion to commit heresy as the Catechism confuses me.

I never thought a Pope would make me feel like this, I hope I am blowing it all out of proportion.

:imsorry:
Well if you weren’t going to hell before he said these things then you aren’t going now. 😉
 
I don’t think any of that is Catholic doctrine. It’s just an opinion the Pope has.

The Big Bang was actually formulate by a Catholic priest, but neither that nor evolution are required belief.

So I don’t see how you’d be in state of mortal sin over this.
 
Nelka,
I’m with you, and it was my “realization” (I really think God sent it to me :)) of the absurdity of materialist evolution which brought me to a real belief in God and started me on my path to the Catholic Church in which I had been baptized.

Check out the Maximilian Kolbe Center for Study of Creation (if I have that right) for information.

ETA: And remember, the Pope is infallible in matters if faith and morals, when he speaks ex cathedra. So what we need to assent to are matters of faith and morals proclaimed by the pope in a special way. So please never worry if you are going to Hell because you don’t agree with something the Pope says outside those circumstances, esp in these days of rapid (all too often wrong) translations, media spin, and wild cutting of comments!
 
At the moment you are free to agree or disagree.

But to say you will “never believe it” seems unneccessary. Why be close minded to matters of science that do not at all undermine our religion?

Are you aware that the big bang theory was proposed by a Belgian priest, Fr. Georges Lemaître? It is not some secular, athiest conspiracy to make religion redundant.
Exactly, you are fretting over something that is not contrary to our faith.
Read the Catechism in regards to this.
 
I am sad, I read what the Pope said about the big bang and evolution, I checked on more sites to make sure, I can never believe the big bang and even more so evolution. If the Pope wants to believe this and leaves us to choose then I am fine with it but now I feel I am committing heresy by refusing to believe this.

I am suddenly depressed, I was happy before I read it, I will never believe it, please tell me that I must refuse Catholic teaching and not the Pope’s opinion to commit heresy as the Catechism confuses me.

I never thought a Pope would make me feel like this, I hope I am blowing it all out of proportion.

:imsorry:
The salvation of your eternal soul has nothing to do with “evolution” You may believe in any of the many theories of evolution or you may simply not. You MUST believe that God created everything and that he created it good. You can go to heaven as a good catholic believing in a 6 billion year old earth or a 6000 year old earth. The Pope was just pointing out that one may indeed believe in a certain theory of evolution and be a Catholic. It is worth noting that most evolutionists do not believe man came from apes.
 
Jimmy Akin recently answered a similar question on Catholic Answers Live: catholic.com/radio/shows/open-forum-26208#. The call I’m speaking of begins at around the 23:10 mark.

Also, have a look at this graphic made by Jimmy Akin: secretinformationclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/dogma_pyramid1.pdf

God creating the universe out of nothing is certainly a Dogma, but frankly, *how *He did so should belong mostly to the domain of Science, or to theological opinion at most (insofar as we interpret Genesis, for example).

However, it is a permissible theological opinion – or maybe even a non-infallible doctrine – that the account(s) of creation in Genesis use(s) figurative language, and so they therefore do not necessarily imply something like young-earth creationism.

But if you are *scientifically *convinced of young-earth creationism, then this is quite acceptable so far as that goes.

It must also be said that we can be *scientifically *convinced of some form of evolution, so long as we understand that the human race came from one pair of parents.
 
I am sad, I read what the Pope said about the big bang and evolution, I checked on more sites to make sure, I can never believe the big bang and even more so evolution. If the Pope wants to believe this and leaves us to choose then I am fine with it but now I feel I am committing heresy by refusing to believe this.

I am suddenly depressed, I was happy before I read it, I will never believe it, please tell me that I must refuse Catholic teaching and not the Pope’s opinion to commit heresy as the Catechism confuses me.

I never thought a Pope would make me feel like this, I hope I am blowing it all out of proportion.

:imsorry:
The Big Bang and the theory of evolution are science, not Church dogma. Personally, I have no idea why anyone would refuse to accept scientific evidence, but you’re completely free to do so.
 
It looks like you don’t understand the Big Bang, but I don’t know your thoughts concerning evolution. In any case, why do you feel you can never believe current scientific theory concerning these matters?

To clarify, this is what the Big Bang theory is: Scientists see matter accelerating apart, and trace it backwards in time to theorize that matter came from an unimaginably small point in space and time. It neither disproves nor proves God; it’s only a statement about the movement of the universe.

It also does not contradict the Bible. Read some material from catholic.com, for example, catholic.com/tracts/adam-eve-and-evolution

At catholic.com/tracts/the-galileo-controversy we find:
As Augustine put it, “One does not read in the Gospel that the Lord said: ‘I will send you the Paraclete who will teach you about the course of the sun and moon.’ For he willed to make them Christians, not mathematicians.”
The Genesis creation account is myth in the original primordial historical sense of the world; it is not meant to be read as a scientific narrative.
 
The pope did not say an infallible statment, this is just an opinion. And because it is an opinion it can be objected: Magisterial Teaching on Creation

Both the Council of Trent and Vatican Council I taught that no one is permitted to interpret Sacred Scripture “contrary to the unanimous agreement of the Fathers.” In the words of Fr. Victor Warkulwiz:
The Fathers and Doctors of the Church unanimously agreed that Genesis 1-11 is an inerrant literal historical account of the beginning of the world and the human species as related by the prophet Moses under divine inspiration. This does not mean that they agreed on every point in its interpretation, but their differences were accidental and not essential. Pope Leo XIII, following St. Augustine, affirmed the Catholic rule for interpreting Sacred Scripture, “not to depart from the literal and obvious sense, except only where reason makes it untenable or necessity requires.”
For the first five centuries of the Church, all of the Fathers believed and proclaimed:
that God created the different kinds of living things instantly and immediately
That Adam was created from the dust of the earth and Eve from his side
that God ceased to create new kinds of creatures after the creation of Adam
that the Original Sin of Adam shattered the perfect harmony of the first-created world and brought human death, deformity, and disease into the world.
This patristic teaching on creation was implicit in the words of the Nicene Creed, “I believe in God, the Father almighty, Creator of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible.” Not until the Middle Ages when the Albigensian heresy denied the divine creation of the material universe did an Ecumenical Council elaborate on the first article of the creed in the following words:
God…creator of all visible and invisible things of the spiritual and of the corporal who by his own omnipotent power at once from the beginning of time created each creature from nothing, spiritual and corporal namely angelic and mundane and finally the human, constituted as it were, alike of the spirit and the body.
Advocates for theistic evolution will object that cosmological or biological evolution are hypotheses in natural science and cannot be excluded by the Church’s creation theology. And it is true that Pope John Paul II believed his scientific advisors when they asserted that everything in the universe (except for man’s soul) could have evolved through natural processes after the creation ex nihilo of some material elements and natural laws in the beginning. But the Pope never cited any evidence that their opinion was true beyond a reasonable doubt. Moreover, Pope John Paul II’s endorsement of the evolutionary hypothesis was always tentative and never obliged our assent. For example, in one Wednesday audience he stated:
It can therefore be said that, from the viewpoint of the doctrine of the faith, there are no difficulties in explaining the origin of man, in regard to the body, by means of the theory of evolution. It must, however, be added that this hypothesis proposes only a probability, not a scientific certainty.
Furthermore, in his famous speech to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences in 1996, the Holy Father admitted:
A theory’s validity depends on whether or not it can be verified; it is constantly tested against the facts; wherever it can no longer explain the latter, it shows its limitations and unsuitability. It must then be rethought.
One of the main reasons why evolution still appears to many Catholics to be a credible hypothesis is that it has not been subjected to rigorous critical examination in the public forum. In his encyclical letter Humani generis in 1950, Pope Pius XII asked that Catholic scholars examine the evidence for and against the hypothesis of human evolution. However, in the last 62 years only a handful of Catholic universities and research centers have given any attention to the serious shortcomings of the evolutionary hypothesis. On the eve of his election to the papacy, then-Cardinal Ratzinger approved the publication, in English, of his work Truth and Tolerance in which he observed:
There is . . . no getting around the dispute about the extent of the claims of the doctrine of evolution as a fundamental philosophy . . . This dispute has therefore to be approached objectively and with a willingness to listen, by both sides-something that has hitherto been undertaken only to a limited extent (Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, Truth and Tolerance (San Francisco: Ignatius Press, 2004), pp. 179-181).
This statement was all the more remarkable in light of the fact that the Pontifical Academy of Sciences has long refused to give any serious consideration to the scientific evidence against the evolutionary hypothesis, while defending a number of positions on other issues that are highly questionable from a Catholic point of view. (Questionable positions advocated by publications of the PAS include limiting family size to two children; using the so-called “brain death” criteria to determine human death; and using GMO food to combat world hunger.) During the Darwin year, the organizers of a PAS conference on evolution refused to allow any scientists to present compelling scientific evidence against the evolutionary hypothesis, even when Ph.D. level Catholic scientists offered to do so at their own expense (Cf. www.sciencevsevolution.org ).
 
Isn’t it interesting that the Bible states the series of events in the same order as scientists do?
What??? :confused: Have you even read the bible?

GENESIS 1:1-2:4

Day One - Night and Day
Day Two - Sky and Sea
Day Three - Land and Vegetation
Day Four - Stars, Sun and Moon
Day Five - Sea creatures including Fish and Birds
Day Six - Animals and Mankind
Day Seven - Rest

So - please tell me the scientist(s) who hold that Night and Day, Sky and Sea or Land and Vegetation were created before Stars, Sun and Moon…

How do you have Night and Day without the Sun? Humm…

Birds evolved after land Animals so even day 5 and 6 are wrong…
 
What??? :confused: Have you even read the bible?

GENESIS 1:1-2:4

Day One - Night and Day
Day Two - Sky and Sea
Day Three - Land and Vegetation
Day Four - Stars, Sun and Moon
Day Five - Sea creatures including Fish and Birds
Day Six - Animals and Mankind
Day Seven - Rest

So - please tell me the scientist(s) who hold that Night and Day, Sky and Sea or Land and Vegetation were created before Stars, Sun and Moon…

How do you have Night and Day without the Sun? Humm…

Birds evolved after land Animals so even day 5 and 6 are wrong…
 
The Bible is obviously not a science book, but I still find many similarities in the order that Genesis 1 gives and the order given to us by scientists.

Day 1 is really Light and Darkness. I’m sure the Big Bang caused plenty of light. I believe it says the earth hadn’t been formed yet. The next thing scientists tell us is that the earth was formed, and the sea did get separated from the land. The one thing that seems to be out of order in the Bible is the stars, sun, and moon. Is it possible that after there was land and vegetation, there was more oxygen in the atmosphere, and at that point maybe the sun, moon, and stars would have become more visible if anyone had been around at that time to see them.

Scientists tell us that sea creatures evolved, and then some of the creatures managed to crawl out of the ocean to form wings. Even though there were small mammals around the time of the dinosaurs, scientists think that dinosaurs were very bird-like and birds evolved from them. The animals like cows, sheep, etc. didn’t happen until after the birds, and then the Bible tells us that Man came last, just like the Bible says.

So even though the Bible is not a science book, I still think it’s amazing how many things that the author of the Bible got in the scientific order.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top