Am I headed to Heaven or Hell?

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Hi. I am glad for the responses given. They are certainly challenging and thought provoking. I will need a little time to “digest” this. From the responses given, I believe I may have had some misunderstanding concerning the Catholic faith. I will be back to give more details shortly. Thanks for sharing some of your time with me.
 
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oilman:
Hi. I am glad for the responses given. They are certainly challenging and thought provoking. I will need a little time to “digest” this. From the responses given, I believe I may have had some misunderstanding concerning the Catholic faith. I will be back to give more details shortly. Thanks for sharing some of your time with me.
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God bless, Oilman. If you have questions, feel free to ask. Also, in case you haven’t been there already, go to catholic.com On the left side of the screen there is a list of topics that cover a lot of areas and might just answer some questions you have. In particular, study the issue of authority.
 
Here is some more details regarding my situation and to hopefully address some of the questions raised on this thread. I left the Catholic Church at 19. I went to 12 years of Catholic school but I admit to not paying much attention to the Catholic teaching. I didn’t really having some falling out with the Church, I simply stopped going. At the time, the Mass made little sense to me, I didn’t ask anyone any questions and no one seems interested in sharing personally with me what it all meant and how to walk with God. I kind of was just a face in the massive crowd. I then met some “born again” Christians which interested me. They shared their faith, I became interested and to make a long story short, I began to seek God, turned from worldly ways and began to walk with God. As the years have gone on, I have grown wary of the tendency in Protestant Churches to follow a man Re: paster, a particular teaching. I am more comfortable centering any gathering, meeting, services, etc on Christ and not some human personality or charismatic individual. About 2-3 years ago, I left formal Protestantism and now Home Church with a group of Christian believers. I realize that God does give authority to men as seen in Math 16:16-19. I am unclear if this can only be received via apostolic succession or can be received simply by the Holy Spirit directly imparting the authority on someone Re: apart from the Catholic Church.
 
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oilman:
I realize that God does give authority to men as seen in Math 16:16-19. I am unclear if this can only be received via apostolic succession or can be received simply by the Holy Spirit directly imparting the authority on someone Re: apart from the Catholic Church.
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In the passage you cited, Christ was giving authority to a man (Simon Bar-Jona) versus all of mankind. In the Old Testament, God gave authority to certain men, Abraham, Moses, David etc, but he didn’t give it to all of mankind. So the question is who gave the authority to create a church outside of the only church that Christ gave to humanity? The only answer I’ve ever been able to come up with is man gave that authority to himself. Luther determined that the forces of evil had prevailed against the Church and started his own. Calvin did much the same thing. But Christ promised that evil would not prevail; so did Christ get it wrong? Or did man lose his faith in the Holy Spirit protecting the church and went down his own path?

Your story is similar to my own as too left the church at about the age of 19 after doing my time in Catholic school. Sadly I left for life of sin versus another Christian faith. The fact that Christ drew me back is a testament to His Divine Mercy.
 
Would it surprise you if I said the Catholic view is the more optimistic one?

Think about it. Christians believe God became man out of love and then died for us.

This is crazy. That is why Mohammed rejected it as being too far out to be true.

So when we try to evangelize Muslims, we have to convince them this crazy assertion is not only likely, but a fact. But it means they must be far more optimistic about God.

Some forms of Protestantism claim an optimistic assurance of salvation in the dogma Once Saved Always Saved. This is not crazy. It is yummy. Every one and his puppy wants it to be true.

Is it, though? Scripture says emphatically NO!

The Catholic position is not only did God die for us as an incarnate man (crazy), but that he established the Church as an eternal guide for all mankind to reach salvation. That visible institution with heating bills, laundry machines, and car mechanics is the eternal Bride of Christ to whom God continually reaches out to from eternity out of love (crazy!).

Again, we see that in evangelizing Protestants, we have to convince them that this more than probable, but that it happened. And they have to be more optimistic about how much God loves us.

(Granted, in this day and age it would be far more easy to embrace this optimism. Think how hard it was in the beginning when a mass could not be said without fear of soldiers bursting in and carting every one away to the lions! Or during the 16th century when corruption (but not error) had a firm grip on the Earthly Branch of God’s Heavenly Kingdom.)

Put popularly another way: either the Church is who she says she is or she is the most diabolical and wicked of deceivers and MUST be plowed into dust for the sake of mankind.

Once you open yourself up to this possibility, then your cup will indeed runneth over with a litany of spiritual and temporal gifts the likes of which has never been seen in human history and only promises to glow brighter in future history.

Think of your own spiritual journey – how the faith only got smaller and more confined. From a denial of the Church established by God himself to the denial of any form of church to the denial of any form.

But form is inescapable! What better sign is there that if you misunderstand the God who authored reality, you misunderstand reality?

Forget your ideals. Think about his . Contemplate the puddle of mud as well as the flower. Think about babies born with brain tumors as well as the Olympic figure skater. All of these are his ideals. It is not his fault if you cannot see that. The imperfection lies in our finite ability to understand.

See how God is not a God of Simplification. All heresies are an attempt to simplify him through our simple minds.
jimmyakin.org/2004/09/index.html

Protestants have a reverse Pandora’s box. They take God, stuff him inside, and close the lid. But which is more fitting of the true nature of God, tidiness or fullness? Simplicity or inexhaustible mystery?

It may feel safer to simplify, to take less for granted, to be less “presumptuous” but what about the Congregationalists and Pentecostals who deny the Holy Trinity? Is that “safer”? Or is it Saducee? This rampant tendency is the key reason why churches are constantly breaking off one another. It divides the Body of Christ and simplifies God:

jimmyakin.org/2005/11/whats_wrong_wit.html#comments

It is crazy to think God cares this much but many Protestants are beginning to wonder, wouldn’t it actually be nice?

findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1058/is_10_122/ai_n14858475/print
 
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oilman:
I left the Catholic Church at 19. I went to 12 years of Catholic school but I admit to not paying much attention to the Catholic teaching. I didn’t really having some falling out with the Church, I simply stopped going. At the time, the Mass made little sense to me, I didn’t ask anyone any questions and no one seems interested in sharing personally with me what it all meant and how to walk with God.** I kind of was just a face in the massive crowd.**
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That resonates !
I left about 2 years earlier…
When I was 29 I started to hear a voice calling my name, I thought maybe I was degenerating mentally .
I was EMPTY inside,
and I no longer wanted to live this way.
“If I don’t find what I am looking for before I turn 30, I will kill my self !”
…I promised myself.

The same voice said;"The only place you haven’t looked in is your faith."

“Well, I will go to Mass this Sunday and learn what My Faith has to say .” is what I decided.
(I had never before gone to Mass for that purpose)
There it began…

I have gone through a Beautiful Conversion,
Through The Baptism in The Holy Spirit,
The Catechumenate, The New Covenant, The New Exodus, …but the most solidifying experience is at the Altar in the Liturgy of the Word, and the Liturgy of the Eucharist
😃
I am still learning and I am in for the duration…
I realize that God does give authority to men as seen in Math 16:16-19. I am unclear if this can only be received via apostolic succession or can be received simply by the Holy Spirit directly imparting the authority on someone Re: apart from the Catholic Church.
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God imparts authority to men other than directly Apostolic eg; Cornelius Acts 10: 1-8 / Romans 13:
but for the purpose to draw all into "one faith, one Lord, one Baptism.… never to draw one away from the True Faith.
He wants to draw all to the Eucharist because there is where The New Covenant is, where forgiveness is, where glory is.

Away from the Eucharist is away from the New Covenant.

God Bless,

gusano
 
I’d give the apologetic material on this site a try. I have yet to run into a protestant that hasn’t had some misconceptions of the Catholic Church through no fault of their own.

How do you feel about the Eucharist?
 
I just wanted to say a couple things in response to some of the comments made here - first of all, this is a great thread, and I hope that others out there mislead out of Catholicism read this with an open heart. I think the support from other Catholics here is right on target…I am a convert to Catholicism, and I do not think I would be stretching the truth by saying that those Catholics who sincerely devote themselves to learning the faith, and investing all of their heart and soul into receiving the Word of God, WHILE rejecting the world of man, will find a faith through Catholicism worth dying for. The Catholic Church is truly a gift from God, and wonderful transformation WILL take place inside an open heart willing to seek, and open to find Christ. Oilman I am sure many here will be praying for you, but if it is any consolation, my love for God, and my faith, through the Catholic Church, has drastically changed my life, something that a lifetime of searching for outside of the Catholic Church could never do, and certainly not on the same scale - it was like a light in the darkness for me, BUT, you have to be dedicated which is the most important thing I think - and explore the faith with the thought that you will seek to find Christ no matter where it takes you… for many there are stumbling blocks in things like our devotion to our Blessed Mother, and infant baptism, and confession to a priest, etc… but once you realize that these are things that have their roots in Sacred Scripture, and have been believed, and followed throughout the history of the Church, since Christ, and that it was only man who led astray many others through Protestanism, you will be sure to run back to the Church with open arms, as these are things that only magnify your love for God and open your faith. God bless you friend.
 
Theguidedheart,

:clapping: :yup: :clapping: :yup: :yup: :clapping:
 
How do I feel about the Eucharist? Well, it certainly is a great mystery to me. God can do anything He wants…bread and wine into body and blood… but I don’t know if in John Chapter 6 he was referring to the physical or the spiritual or both for that matter. I just don’t know. One thing bothers me, though. How is it that, at least in my experience, so many Catholics believe they take the Body and Blood of the Lord in Communion yet appear to live such worldly lives? Please don’t misunderstand me, I don’t mean to judge, I just don’t get it. Wouldn’t such a miraculous event such as the Presence of Christ in the Eucharist cause someone to pause and consider the way they live? Am I missing something here? When I was a Catholic, I would go to Confession and receive Communion once a year to fulfill what I saw as my obligation. I don’t think I had a clue.
 
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oilman:
How do I feel about the Eucharist? Well, it certainly is a great mystery to me. God can do anything He wants…bread and wine into body and blood… but I don’t know if in John Chapter 6 he was referring to the physical or the spiritual or both for that matter. I just don’t know. One thing bothers me, though. How is it that, at least in my experience, so many Catholics believe they take the Body and Blood of the Lord in Communion yet appear to live such worldly lives? Please don’t misunderstand me, I don’t mean to judge, I just don’t get it. Wouldn’t such a miraculous event such as the Presence of Christ in the Eucharist cause someone to pause and consider the way they live? Am I missing something here? When I was a Catholic, I would go to Confession and receive Communion once a year to fulfill what I saw as my obligation. I don’t think I had a clue.
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Oilman, have you read about the Eucharist here? catholic.com/library/Christ_in_the_Eucharist.asp This gives apologetical support for what we as Catholics believe about this most important sacrament.

I agree, all Catholics need to live their faith, and I would suspect that those who truly realize what we receive do, in fact, try to model Christ in their life. You can’t judge Catholicism by looking at bad Catholics: look at the saints. If you wanted to know how to win at an Olympic event, you would talk to the winners, not those who didn’t even try out for the team. You can’t base your faith on the shortcomings of others.

I too was “clueless” for years. I’m not now, and that’s what’s important to me. I go to a parish that is on fire with love of Christ, and love for His Church. The reverence shown the Eucharist is marvelous to see.
 
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oilman:
When I was a Catholic, I would go to Confession and receive Communion once a year to fulfill what I saw as my obligation. I don’t think I had a clue.
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This is not against you, Oilman, but I detest the word obligation when referring to Holy Days and Confession. How can we refer to these offerings of Grace and call them obligations?!?!

You have no idea how much I cringe when I hear our priest say, “Don’t forget, Thursday is a Holy Day of Obligation”.

Take Care!

Notworthy
 
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oilman:
How do I feel about the Eucharist? Well, it certainly is a great mystery to me. God can do anything He wants…bread and wine into body and blood… but I don’t know if in John Chapter 6 he was referring to the physical or the spiritual or both for that matter. I just don’t know. One thing bothers me, though. How is it that, at least in my experience, so many Catholics believe they take the Body and Blood of the Lord in Communion yet appear to live such worldly lives? Please don’t misunderstand me, I don’t mean to judge, I just don’t get it. Wouldn’t such a miraculous event such as the Presence of Christ in the Eucharist cause someone to pause and consider the way they live? Am I missing something here? When I was a Catholic, I would go to Confession and receive Communion once a year to fulfill what I saw as my obligation. I don’t think I had a clue.
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You may wish to get the book “Eucharistic Miracles” by Cruz. It explains the first class miracles that have happened in relation to the eucharist ONLY at Catholic masses throughout the centuries. These eucharists are on display all over Europe to this day and you can go see them. Fascinating book and anyone can go see the proof. No non-Catholic denomination has experienced this phenomena…a sign from God where the TRUE presence in the Eucharist lies…the Catholic Church only.

BH
www.protestanterrors.com
 
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oilman:
How do I feel about the Eucharist? Well, it certainly is a great mystery to me. God can do anything He wants…bread and wine into body and blood… but I don’t know if in John Chapter 6 he was referring to the physical or the spiritual or both for that matter. I just don’t know. One thing bothers me, though. How is it that, at least in my experience, so many Catholics believe they take the Body and Blood of the Lord in Communion yet appear to live such worldly lives? Please don’t misunderstand me, I don’t mean to judge, I just don’t get it. Wouldn’t such a miraculous event such as the Presence of Christ in the Eucharist cause someone to pause and consider the way they live? Am I missing something here? When I was a Catholic, I would go to Confession and receive Communion once a year to fulfill what I saw as my obligation. I don’t think I had a clue.
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Oilman,

I’ve been going to Catholic Church all my life and I have witnessed a lot of unbelievable things. And souls recieving communion knowing the things I know about some of them…but you said “I don’t mean to judge, I just don’t get it”. It’s not that you don’t get it, it’s that they don’t get it. They don’t get the full meaning of the Eucharist . Have you read Lamb’s Supper The Mass as Heaven on Earth by Scott Hahn , it’s an excellent book.

:blessyou:
 
Oilman,

I was once a fallen away Catholic, it sounds like our stories are quite similar in some ways, in that while raised Catholic, I never really understood the teachings of the Church. You wonder about how if Catholicism is correct, how can there be those who take the Eucharist and still live unreformed lives. Well, you and I are excellent examples of how this can happen. Now the question is, how can we ensure that this trend stops. I think we need to become part of the solution within the Church so that another generation is not lost from the beauty of all that Christ left us.

I encourage you to seek seriously for answers to any concern you have regarding the teachings of the Church. But know that you will be tempted on your path and humility is the most important virtue if you are to live according to the way of Christ. This means that when you are uncertain of the truth, you need to be willing to allow Christ to lead the way, NOT YOU. Pray, pray pray and you will find the answer if you listen for God.

God Bless,

CARose
 
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oilman:
How do I feel about the Eucharist? Well, it certainly is a great mystery to me.
…
When I was a Catholic, I would go to Confession and receive Communion once a year to fulfill what I saw as my obligation. I don’t think I had a clue.
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Hi Oilman,
you are on the right track.
God presents a mystery to us so he can later reveal it to us.
" There is nothing hidden that will not be revealed…"

If you sincerely want to go to the Heart of God,
(…and I believe you do.)

do what Joysong suggested
Posts #34, #35

“The Lamb’s Supper”
If you read that book, you will run Home !

🙂
gusano
 
I also loved Scott Hahn’s “Home Sweet Rome” (or is it “Rome Sweet Home”?).

Great read and so informational! and Inspirational!

CARose
 
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joyfulmess:
Oilman,

I’ve been going to Catholic Church all my life and I have witnessed a lot of unbelievable things. And souls recieving communion knowing the things I know about some of them…but you said “I don’t mean to judge, I just don’t get it”. It’s not that you don’t get it, it’s that they don’t get it. They don’t get the full meaning of the Eucharist . Have you read Lamb’s Supper The Mass as Heaven on Earth by Scott Hahn , it’s an excellent book.

:blessyou:
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For a quick “kick start”, listen to the tape, “The Fourth Cup”. It’s 45-60 minutes long, and it will ignite a hunger to find out more about the Eucharist. Most Catholic Churches in my area have this and are willing to let people borrow it.

Notworthy
 
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oilman:
One thing bothers me, though. How is it that, at least in my experience, so many Catholics believe they take the Body and Blood of the Lord in Communion yet appear to live such worldly lives? Please don’t misunderstand me, I don’t mean to judge, I just don’t get it. Wouldn’t such a miraculous event such as the Presence of Christ in the Eucharist cause someone to pause and consider the way they live? Am I missing something here? When I was a Catholic, I would go to Confession and receive Communion once a year to fulfill what I saw as my obligation. I don’t think I had a clue.
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You pretty much answered your own question I think in the last sentance there, at least as far as I understand our relationship with Christ. You had no clue, and thats part of it… we don’t receive the body and blood of Christ out of mere ritual, its not just something we do, and I would say that if people out there received the Holy Eucharist with that mindset, thats as much as they are going to get out of it, regardless what it is. If you don’t have your soul in the right place before you receive the Blessed Sacrament, I would hardly be able to understand how the grace involved would even be obvious to you - you have to receive Hm in faith, and wow, those who have faith, sincere devotion, and a love that can hardly be contained for Christ, imagine what his Body and Blood does for them, their faith and love are magnified! The grace DOES become apparent, and overwhelmingly so… my words really do not do the Sacrament justice, I’m sure otheres here can explain it much better, I would just say that the heart, mind, body and soul all have to be united in love and devotion in receiving the Blessed Sacrament to really understand what is taking place. Unfortunately I would say alot of Catholics do not - I know, because I was one of them for several years… and nobody said that God’s grace works in the blink of an eye… infact my conversion to Catholicism was a long process that took 7 years… and for nearly 5 of those years, I didn’t even notice that God was bringing me to His Church, it was not until I looked back at the events in my life after they passed that I saw God working through even the smallest details in my life to bring me home.
 
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