Am I just nuts?

[Sancto_Spiritu]

Would you like me to post the contents of the letter I sent my bishop? Maybe it could help guide you for future correspondence on such issues?

 

[thunderballs75]

Because in this diocese (the same one as the OP), just about every Mass has those things in it. It is almost impossible to escape them.

Where do you usually go? Is it pretty bad there? I have been to quite a few parishes, and I can’t seem to find one nearby that is traditional at all. At least somebody else knows how I feel. The reason I’m asking this question is to see if it is just me, because like you said, it seems this is the way it is everywhere. Maybe it is only our diocese. I see that you are in Riverside. Are you interested in the EF Mass, btw?

Are you guys sure these things aren’t allowed? Where in the GIRM does it say they are not allowed? I always assumed they were, because aside from one parish which is far away, I haven’t been to a single one where there weren’t these things. I’m pretty sure at least that the drums, guitar, electric bass, and piano are allowed. And I’ve talked to some people who sent letters to the bishop. He doesn’t even care. In fact, apparently he is the one encouraging it.

 

[Eucharisted]

Where do you usually go? Is it pretty bad there? I have been to quite a few parishes, and I can’t seem to find one nearby that is traditional at all. At least somebody else knows how I feel. The reason I’m asking this question is to see if it is just me, because like you said, it seems this is the way it is everywhere. Maybe it is only our diocese. I see that you are in Riverside. Are you interested in the EF Mass, btw?

Are you guys sure these things aren’t allowed? Where in the GIRM does it say they are not allowed? I always assumed they were, because aside from one parish which is far away, I haven’t been to a single one where there weren’t these things. I’m pretty sure at least that the drums, guitar, electric bass, and piano are allowed. And I’ve talked to some people who sent letters to the bishop. He doesn’t even care. In fact, apparently he is the one encouraging it.

Send a letter to the Holy See, then.

 

[Sancto_Spiritu]

Are you guys sure these things aren’t allowed? Where in the GIRM does it say they are not allowed? I always assumed they were, because aside from one parish which is far away, I haven’t been to a single one where there weren’t these things. I’m pretty sure at least that the drums, guitar, electric bass, and piano are allowed. And I’ve talked to some people who sent letters to the bishop. He doesn’t even care. In fact, apparently he is the one encouraging it.

Anything not explicitly provided for in the GIRM is unacceptable. The GIRM contains the rubrics of the Mass. The rubrics are to be followed–that’s why they exist.

Also, from a Motu Proprio on music, found here newadvent.org/cathen/10648a.htm:

Although the music proper to the Church is purely vocal music, music with the accompaniment of the organ is also permitted. In some special cases, within due limits and within the proper regards, other instruments may be allowed, but never without the special licence of the ordinary, according to the Cæremoniale episcoporum. As the chant should always have the principal place, the organ or instruments should merely sustain and never suppress it. It is not permitted to have the chant preceded by long preludes or to interrupt it with intermezzo pieces. The pianoforte and noisy and frivolous instruments (e.g. drums, cymbals, and bells) are absolutely excluded. Wind instruments by their nature more turbulent and obtrusive, are admissible only as an accompaniment to the singing in processions outside of the church. Within the edifice "it will be permissible only in special cases and with the consent of the ordinary to admit a number of wind instruments, limited, judicious, and proportioned to the size of the place, provided the composition and accompaniment to be executed be written in a grave and suitable style and similar in all respects to that proper to the organ.

From the same site:

As to the use of instruments, other than the organ, we should remember that the special permission of the ordinary is necessary, and that their nature must always be in keeping with the occasion and the place. The employment of a full orchestra forms an exception (cf. Motu proprio, cited above).

Bottom line: Just because a parish or diocese does things a “certain way” doesn’t mean it’s right. Bishops have tendencies toward liberalism or conservatism just like individual priests do. You can compare liberal dioceses with conservative dioceses all day long and the resulting information will be a host of differences.

It’s not necessarily useful to see what dioceses are doing in order to discern what is correct. Instead, look to the GIRM. THAT is where you’ll find the correct rubrics for the Mass.

Drums, guitars, and the like all have their places. But those places do not include a Roman Catholic Church. Catholic Churches are reserved for instruments- like voices and organ- that foster a dignified reverence for the Real Presence and for music that isn’t bombastic, caustic, or in any way overpowers the sacrifice that is occurring on the altar.

 

[Jacafamala]

If all you can find in your area are Masses with abuses, go to the SSPX Mass. Or go to the Melkite Mass. Why should you be guilted into participating in guitar Masses?

 

[Sancto_Spiritu]

If all you can find in your area are Masses with abuses, go to the SSPX Mass. Or go to the Melkite Mass. Why should you be guilted into participating in guitar Masses?

Actually, no. and I have a really big problem with that attitude. This is why:

Don’t get me wrong, I attend the EF every week and absolutely and utterly despise liberalism and its abuses in the OF, but simply saying “just find an SSPX Mass” is NOT the answer. SSPX is schismatic, and therefore its masses are gravely illicit. Only under very specific circumstances would an SSPX Mass be acceptable for a Roman Catholic, and even then, it’s iffy.

Call the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter. It is in absolute communion with Rome, meaning its Masses are perfectly licit. I’m not going to get in a back-and-forth about the SSPX. Many of us like the EF more than the OF. It’s personal choice. But schism is not something about which we can act flippantly.

My point is:

If you don’t like the direction your diocese is headed, work to change it. Join a committee, write letters, TALK to people. Just don’t plunk down in front of your computer and vent anonymously. Joining an SSPX parish, in addition to being illicit, is cowardly. Joining a group that is OUTSIDE the Church is like throwing your hands up in the air and saying “screw it!” you’re giving up on your Church. That’s pitiful and sad.

In the diocese in which I first attended the EF (I started going by myself in high school), the parishioners begged and pleaded with the bishop for over three years before he would allow an EF Mass. Now, that has got to be easier with the Holy Father opening the doors for traditional worship even further.

Don’t give up on your church. Instead, go to a non-schismatic group and work to change the status quo in your diocese. The Lord didn’t lead you to His church so you could leave it.

 

[OraProNobisIHM]

Actually, no. and I have a really big problem with that attitude. This is why:

Don’t get me wrong, I attend the EF every week and absolutely and utterly despise liberalism and its abuses in the OF, but simply saying “just find an SSPX Mass” is NOT the answer. SSPX is schismatic, and therefore its masses are gravely illicit. Only under very specific circumstances would an SSPX Mass be acceptable for a Roman Catholic, and even then, it’s iffy.

Call the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter. It is in absolute communion with Rome, meaning its Masses are perfectly licit. I’m not going to get in a back-and-forth about the SSPX. Many of us like the EF more than the OF. It’s personal choice. But schism is not something about which we can act flippantly.

My point is:

If you don’t like the direction your diocese is headed, work to change it. Join a committee, write letters, TALK to people. Just don’t plunk down in front of your computer and vent anonymously. Joining an SSPX parish, in addition to being illicit, is cowardly. Joining a group that is OUTSIDE the Church is like throwing your hands up in the air and saying “screw it!” you’re giving up on your Church. That’s pitiful and sad.

In the diocese in which I first attended the EF (I started going by myself in high school), the parishioners begged and pleaded with the bishop for over three years before he would allow an EF Mass. Now, that has got to be easier with the Holy Father opening the doors for traditional worship even further.

Don’t give up on your church. Instead, go to a non-schismatic group and work to change the status quo in your diocese. The Lord didn’t lead you to His church so you could leave it.

You’re wrong.

We have Cardinals saying that the SSPX is not in schism, and that they are not outside the Church.

They are Catholic. They are irregular, though, and I will yield that point. Being irregular, however, is not being outside the Church.

 

[Sancto_Spiritu]

You’re wrong.

We have Cardinals saying that the SSPX is not in schism, and that they are not outside the Church.

They are Catholic. They are irregular, though, and I will yield that point. Being irregular, however, is not being outside the Church.

I think you’re right. I did some digging and found that.

Be that as it may, it doesn’t change the fact that we should work and sacrifice to change our own diocese before running off to an “irregular” church, or even another diocese.

 

[psr13]

I really don’t see this diocese changing unless a new bishop is sent here. This one is known to be very liberal. I go to the one down the street from where I live. I haven’t gone to one here that doesn’t have the things mentioned. However, I haven’t gone to the EF yet. It isn’t far from us really, but hubby has been having to work. That leaves me without a car. We are waiting for when we move back to Orange County. They have many more EF Masses there. From what I’ve seen, the Catholics here do not want to change. They want their Mass the way it currently is and God help anyone who tries to change it.

 

[BernadetteM]

I always have to go to the OF of the Mass. I’ve gone to about 6 or 7 different parishes in the diocese. I was sort of thinking about this after Mass today. It seems everywhere I go, loud guitars/drums, liturgical innovation, dancing, etc. is the norm. I can’t escape it.

I’m just wondering, am I like, extreme? I think the EF is the better way to worship. In fact, I’d go so far as to say that it should be in every parish. Somehow, it just seems terrible to me that every single parish is so willing to embrace these new things, which I consider irreverent, but they would never do anything traditional. Also, it seems like this happens EVERYWHERE. This is the way everybody does it. I think it has gone too far, and I am a little bit frustrated because I have no other choice. Am I just crazy?? Please tell me if I just need to get with the times, and stop being so fanatical.

Is it different where you live? I live in southern California, diocese of San Bernardino, which is sort of near LA. Or is this the way it is everywhere?

Hi,

I go to a lovely NO church in Guasti, Guasti is sorta like a town within a town. It is part of Ontario, CA. I don’t know if you have heard of it. The name is San Secondo E’Asti. It is a very traditional parish. The priest faces East. They also have a latin Mass on Sunday.

It is a small church. People come from many miles to go there. It is very reverent. Even children as young as two or three genuflect before going into the pew. People receive kneeling at the communion rail.

The homilies are very good. I go to the 9:00 mass as it has a music. When I went to the 12:00 mass the Pastor sang without music and so did the congregation. If you want more information please PM me. They also sing great hymns.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

 

[tecvba]

A reverent Mass is a reverent Mass, and a Mass with abuses is a Mass with abuses. I personally prefer the EF but have been to very respectful OF Masses. The problem is when people want change just for the sake of change with no real valid liturgical reason for it. We are a society that craves novelty as demonstrated by the rash of “reality shows”. We want to be entertained-even when we should be quiet and contemplative. Noise rules in the world today and people, it seems to me, fear quiet as though they may hear in their hearts things they do not want to hear.
Also, in my opinion, things have been let go “in the spirit of Vatican II” that were certainly never intended to happen and have never been corrected.
I also happen to believe that when the Mass, any Mass, goes from being about worshipping God to being about what the people want to do, it loses it’s way and it’s true meaning. Mass is supposed to be about God Almighty, not about what we feel is “relevant”. In some places we have dethroned God and replaced ourselves on His throne.