Am I REQUIRED to join a parish, and to give that parish money?

[Mr_Freeze]

I never asserted that “because objective morality is changing”. That’s you. You provide the source.

 

[casslean]

That should say unchanging.

And I am not asserting that it is changing. I accept that it is unchanging. I am asserting that the simple fact of it being unchanging is not sufficient to conclude that all questions of morality can be unequivocally answered with a yes or no.

 

[LittleFlower]

Alrighty then, I never carry cash with me. Literally never.

I also parish hop a fair bit, because depending on where I feel closest to God that Sunday morning, I will go to different parishes and churches. I am not really involved in the parish geographically closest to me.

I give elsewhere, I also try to support Aid in the Church in Need, and donate to Masses there. I literally feel closer to their mission than my geographical parish. ray:t2:

If I do have spare change I will give it to the parish.

 

[Mr_Freeze]

Hmm…
Well. Let’s start another topic in a better sub-forum for this.
I think they CAN be answered with a yes or no. Just like one reception of the eucharist CAN be enough grace to make you a saint.

 

[Mr_Freeze]

But if you say they CANNOT, then I will eventually ask for a source…just as you did.

You have one?

For such an important question I’d think there would be multiple infallible sources from years past until today.

 

[1ke]

Alrighty then, I never carry cash with me. Literally never.

one can give by check, by electronic deposit in many places, or by cash. One can give in the plate, by mailing in a check or money order, or via electronic giving. One can also give time and talent, and should do so.

“Not carrying cash” does not relieve us of the obligation to support the Church both at the parish and diocesan levels, as well as the Church at large.

I also parish hop a fair bit, because depending on where I feel closest to God that Sunday morning, I will go to different parishes and churches. I am not really involved in the parish geographically closest to me.

And yet, that is still your parish. And, one need not be present or have cash to support the parish.

I give elsewhere, I also try to support Aid in the Church in Need, and donate to Masses there. I literally feel closer to their mission than my geographical parish. ray:t2:

And yet, your bishop calls you to support your geographic parish and diocese. And, we are to be obedient to our bishop.

If I do have spare change I will give it to the parish.

That isn’t a first fruits approach. That isn’t a stewardship approach. I would encourage you to reflect more on stewardship of time, talent, and treasure as it applies to the local church.

 

[casslean]

From Veratatis splendor:

1. The morality of acts is defined by the relationship of man’s freedom with the authentic good. This good is established, as the eternal law, by Divine Wisdom which orders every being towards its end: this eternal law is known both by man’s natural reason (hence it is “natural law”), and — in an integral and perfect way — by God’s supernatural Revelation (hence it is called “divine law”). Acting is morally good when the choices of freedom are in conformity with man’s true good and thus express the voluntary ordering of the person towards his ultimate end: God himself, the supreme good in whom man finds his full and perfect happiness.

And again

1. The morality of the human act depends primarily and fundamentally on the “object” rationally chosen by the deliberate will, as is borne out by the insightful analysis, still valid today, made by Saint Thomas. In order to be able to grasp the object of an act which specifies that act morally, it is therefore necessary to place oneself in the perspective of the acting person. The object of the act of willing is in fact a freely chosen kind of behaviour.

Hence, to evaluate the morality of an act, circumstances may be relevant.

 

[LittleFlower]

Well, no. I don’t need to direct debit/cheque/mail order (the two latter really don’t happen here in Australia anymore) anything. And I do give to local Catholic charities who support people in our diocese. That covers supporting the local diocese.

And like I said, I give cash when I can to the parishes when I visit them.

My conscience is at peace.

 

[tafan2]

In my opinion, you are required to support your parish and your diocese.

 

[Mr_Freeze]

Yes. Agreed.
But the morality is either “good” or “bad” as defined by #72. Every choice is either good or bad. Nearer to, or further away from, the ultimate good.

 

[casslean]

But the morality is either “good” or “bad” as defined by #72. Every choice is either good or bad. Nearer to, or further away from, the ultimate good.

The object defines the morality, and defining the object may need to consider the particular circumstances of the individual.

 

[Brendan_64]

And yet, your bishop calls you to support your geographic parish and diocese. And, we are to be obedient to our bishop

Yes we are called to support the Church, but where is it written in Church law that we must financially support the parish within whose boundaries we live? If a person has chosen to (perhaps with good reason) to attend Mass regularly at another Catholic church, then how is supporting that church not supporting the Church financially?

 

[1ke]

but where is it written in Church law that we must financially support the parish within whose boundaries we live?

Not everything that we are asked to do is in “church law”. You know that as well as anyone. Jesus and the Apostles talk about the stewardship and support of the Church in the gospels. The Church talks about it in numerous documents. But, most importantly, the Church is a living entity and we are to listen to our own shepherd the Bishop of our diocese.

The bishop makes direct appeals for support of the diocese and local parish to those who reside in the diocese. The bishop has the authority to do so.

If a person has chosen to (perhaps with good reason) to attend Mass regularly at another Catholic church, then how is that church not supporting the Church financially?

That is something the person needs to discuss with their pastor.

 

[Brendan_64]

The bishop makes direct appeals for support of the diocese and local parish to those who reside in the diocese. The bishop has the authority to do so.

The appeal from the bishop can be met through contributing to another parish in the diocese. At no point have I ever heard a bishop instruct the people that everybody must support the parish they are geographically based in, regardless of where they attend Mass.

 

[1ke]

The appeal from the bishop can be met through contributing to another parish in the diocese. At no point have I ever heard a bishop instruct the people that everybody must support the parish they are geographically based in, regardless of where they attend Mass.

That is your parish. That is your pastor. The bishop sets a pay schedule for the pastor in your parish. The parish pastor must administer the sacraments and see to the upkeep of the Church. Inherent in Church law is the fact that your parish is the place your geographically reside. That pastor has pastoral care over you. For most sacraments your pastor is the one who can administer it, or you need permission to go elsewhere. So, I suggest you talk to your local pastor about what is expected of parishioners as to support of the parish. Or talk to your bishop and ask him.

 

[Pug]

Join? I’ll assume you mean “register”, but I am in the USA, which has its own freakishness regarding registration. No, you are not required by canon law to register in a parish. However, that is tempered by something in the USA, the “for what purpose” clause. You may find that a parish tells you that you must register and have tracked envelopes in order to ________ at the parish. This oddity is parish dependent.

On a related note, your bishop may have a requirement upon moving into a diocese, that IF you are going to register in a parish, then it must be in a particular parish only, the one specified by geographical boundaries for your residence. This oddity is bishop dependent.

Must you Mr_Freeze give money, I don’t know. That is specific to Mr_Freeze and his life circumstances. Not knowing you, I’d say no.

 

[1ke]

So, I’m not being a good Catholic in helping priests living in poverty, who say Holy Mass to the underprivileged?

No one has made that assertion.

I can’t give everywhere, so I should give it to my local Australian parish?

You should support your parish and diocese, and any other charities you feel called to and can afford to support.

We do get to choose where we give our money and where we would like to see the most change, or what causes are dear to our heart, or where we think the money would make the biggest impact.

And we also need to heed the call of our bishop and the support of the local Church. These are not mutually exclusive endeavors nor are they at odds.

 

[Brendan_64]

If I have a buck or two left over, and in cash—sure, I’ll donate it to the parish I am going to Mass for.

I would disagree with you there.

If you are attending Mass regularly in a particular church, I think it is only right and proper to support that church. You are availing of their facilities, their community (and perhaps other activities) and these things cost a lot of money to run (let alone keeping the priest in moderate standard of living). Why should others in that parish pay towards it and not you?

I think that wherever we go to Mass, we should contribute (even if we attend as a one off, we ought to put money in the plate if it comes round).

Our duty to support the Church does, I believe, mean supporting the institution of the Church - parish (whichever you attend), diocese, etc.

 

[signit]

LittleFlower:

If I have a buck or two left over, and in cash—sure, I’ll donate it to the parish I am going to Mass for.

I would disagree with you there.

If you are attending Mass regularly in a particular church, I think it is only right and proper to support that church. You are availing of their facilities, their community (and perhaps other activities) and these things cost a lot of money to run (let alone keeping the priest in moderate standard of living). Why should others in that parish pay towards it and not you?

I think that wherever we go to Mass, we should contribute (even if we attend as a one off, we ought to put money in the plate if it comes round).

I think I’d tend to agree more with this.

But:

Suppose I’m a “member” of one church based on where I live but I choose to attend another church because that’s the church my family always attended.

What should be my obligation to the church where I’m officially a “member”? Should I give an equal donation to that church? A greater donation?

 

[1ke]

See the canons on baptism regarding the pastor’s involvement and that baptism ought to be in the parish church – emergencies not withstanding.

Regarding confirmation, it is one’s pastor who must recommend a candidate for confirmation.

Regarding communion and reconciliation, it is the pastor who is to take care that the child is properly prepared before being admitted to communion the first time, receives first reconciliation, and that children he judges not ready do NOT approach communion.

The entire life of the Church is ordered to the local community, the responsibilities of pastors are enumerated in canon law, and those involve the sacramental preparation of those entrusted to their care-- and those entrusted to their care are further defined as those in the parish, and that is defined geographically unless it is a personal parish.