Am I right to be concerned?

[seagal]

I’ve just moved into this parish (actually a whole new province) and my husband and I have been attending mass at a church that’s just up the street from us. There were a few things that we found strange, most we can put down to a different community “culture”. For example, just before mass begins people are chatting and laughing with each other with no attempt to keep a meditative attitude. However, overall they seem to be sincere in their worship and their faith so we’ve just decided to accept “this is how they do things here”.

There some things that continue to bother me and I’m not sure what (if anything) I should do about it.

1. At the beginning of the mass the penitential rite is not said. The priest says the opening prayer and some general words about how we may have sinned this week, and then goes on to the Lord Have Mercy, but then skips the Gloria. I’ve looked over the pertinent section of the GIRM and have not found any alternative forms to accomodate this change.
2. The priest doesn’t genuflect after the consecration of the bread and wine. The associate priest bows deeply, which to me isn’t the same thing.
3. The thing that really bothers me is that the congregation doesn’t kneel at the consecration, they stand from the Offeratory until they return from receiving Eucharist. This, to my mind, makes the consecration seem rushed and doesn’t give due reverence to this mystery.

After reading some posts here about some of the travesties that are being performed in the guise of mass, I realize that this parish isn’t too bad. I would like to talk to the pastor about it and hoped for some words of advice from anyone who has had this sort of conversation before. I don’t want to come off as someone who just wants to stir up trouble. Am I right to be concerned or am I making a big deal out of this?

 

[Spooky7272]

You’re right to be concerned. The faithful should ALWAYS kneel (with exceptions of course) during the Consecration, (that is, after the Sanctus “Holy Holy Holy”) and until the Great Amen ("Thru Him, with Him…etc). I’d write to the Bishop.

 

[Madia]

I’d write to the Bishop.

First, I’d suggest talking with the priest. These documents might help:
usccb.org/liturgy/current/revmissalisromanien.shtml
ewtn.com/library/curia/cdwrdsac.htm

The priest doesn’t genuflect after the consecration of the bread and wine.

Is he older? Don’t jump to conclusions since he may have a good reason for not genuflecting.

The thing that really bothers me is that the congregation doesn’t kneel at the consecration, they stand from the Offeratory until they return from receiving Eucharist. This, to my mind, makes the consecration seem rushed and doesn’t give due reverence to this mystery.

GIRM #43 might help with this one.

 

[seagal]

Is he older? Don’t jump to conclusions since he may have a good reason for not genuflecting.

No, he’s in his 30’s, only ordained 8 years ago. But that’s a good point, he might have a problem with the physical aspect of it. thanks

 

[Detroit_Sue]

Please pardon my ignorance here, but are the Canadian bishops bound by the GIRM?

 

[Deacon_Ed]

Detroit Sue:

Please pardon my ignorance here, but are the Canadian bishops bound by the GIRM?

Sue,

Yes, they are. They may have specific Canadian adaptations just as we in the United States do. Those adaptions would need to be considered before one were to make a complaint.

Deacon Ed

 

[JKirkLVNV]

seagal:

1. The priest doesn’t genuflect after the consecration of the bread and wine. The associate priest bows deeply, which to me isn’t the same thing.

When you say the associate bows deeply, keep in mind, some people cannot genuflect deeply (it’s a joint thing!). I can go down on one knee, but even with one hand on the pew, it’s a struggle to get back up. So I bow deeply from the waist, which I can pull off with no problem.

 

[Michael_Welter]

seagal:

For example, just before mass begins people are chatting and laughing with each other with no attempt to keep a meditative attitude. However, overall they seem to be sincere in their worship and their faith so we’ve just decided to accept “this is how they do things here”.

Good attitude. Some priests call this “Making a joyful noise to the Lord.”

seagal:

1. At the beginning of the mass the penitential rite is not said.

I was in one parish where the Penitential Rite was skipped because the pastor didn’t believe that we could sin “in our thoughts”. Yes, he actually told me this. He has since been promoted to a diocesan position of authority.

seagal:

1. The priest doesn’t genuflect after the consecration of the bread and wine. The associate priest bows deeply, which to me isn’t the same thing.

As has been suggested, this could be a physical limitation. God is more concerned with internal motions than with external.

seagal:

Am I right to be concerned or am I making a big deal out of this?

It’s always good to be vigilant, but don’t go overboard with it. I usually prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt, until I find out otherwise.

 

[Madia]

Here’s an article that may be of interest:

ewtn.com/expert/answers/scandal_response.htm

Since none of this appears (to me anyway) to be grave liturgical abuse, I don’t think that you are obligated to correct it. However, if these things are making you uncomfortable then feel free to bring these matters up to the priest (assuming that you’re comfortable doing so.) Just try to be prepared for his responses by reading the appropriate sections of the GIRM and Redemptionis Sacramentus.

 

[SMHW]

seagal:

1. At the beginning of the mass the penitential rite is not said. The priest says the opening prayer and some general words about how we may have sinned this week, and then goes on to the Lord Have Mercy, but then skips the Gloria. I’ve looked over the pertinent section of the GIRM and have not found any alternative forms to accomodate this change.

I’m not sure how things work in Canada but in the United States there are three different options for the penitential rite. These are NOT spelled out in the GIRM so you wouldn’t see them there.

The first one is the one that starts, “I confess to Almighty God…” and the second starts out with the celebrant saying, “Lord we have sinned against you: Lord have mercy.” and the people responding, “Lord Have Mercy.” Each of these options are followed by the “Lord have mercy, Christ have mercy, Lord have mercy.” litany. Option 3 starts out with the priest or another leader giving an invocation something like, “You were sent to heal the contrite: Lord have mercy” and the people responding, “Lord have mercy.” These are followed by two other invocations with the “Christ have mercy” and “Lord have mercy” responses. If the third option is used there is no follow-on “Lord have mercy” litany because it would be redundant.

This new parish probably uses option 2 or 3.

If there is a blessing of water or sprinkling rite, the penitential rite would be skipped altogether. This would be the case during Easter time or perhaps if a baptism is held during the Mass.

I can’t really speak to your other concerns but the Penitential Rite is probably OK.

 

[paramedicgirl]

seagal:

For example, just before mass begins people are chatting and laughing with each other with no attempt to keep a meditative attitude. However, overall they seem to be sincere in their worship and their faith so we’ve just decided to accept “this is how they do things here”.

In BC, we have the same problem of people socializing in their seats prior to Mass. When I talked to my priest about this, he said, “It’s a good thing the Tabernacle is in the chapel. Then there is no disrespect in front of the Blessed Sacrament”. Is your Tabernacle also in a side chapel?
We do say the Confetitor, and the priest does genuflect. We also kneel for the whole Eucharistic prayer, even though we have no kneelers.
By all means talk to your priest. It seems to be a long, hard road to correct all these liturgical abuses. Good luck!