Am I the same thing as my soul?

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Is whatever it is that I refer to when I say ‘I’, the same thing as my soul?

If I am the same as my soul, how can I be concerned for the welfare of my soul when my soul is in a state of mortal sin?

If I am not the same as my soul, why should I be concerned for the welfare of my soul, why not just be concerned for the welfare of whatever ‘me’ is instead?
 
if i care about my soul, i am with God. closer to God i am, more sensitive to the status of my soul i am.
if i am with God and go closer and closer to Him, i do not have my soul, because i give everything to Him. i neglect my wishes and care about His will and glory !
may be the word soul exeists, only to explain to non - Christians that our phisical/material wishes are against the Will of God !
 
Is whatever it is that I refer to when I say ‘I’, the same thing as my soul?

If I am the same as my soul, how can I be concerned for the welfare of my soul when my soul is in a state of mortal sin?

If I am not the same as my soul, why should I be concerned for the welfare of my soul, why not just be concerned for the welfare of whatever ‘me’ is instead?
“I” refers to your “person”. Human persons consist of both a body and a soul. (Hence, the resurrection of our bodies needed for us to be complete in eternity.) “Person” is one of those terms that is still a bit mysterious in philosophy :confused: – there is no clear definition that I know of. Perhaps someone else is aware of one and can share it.
 
No, you are not just your soul. You are an embodied soul. When you die your soul takes on a different state of being, but will eventually be rejoined with your now, hopefully glorified, body for all eternity.
 
ok, but the more one grows in Faith, bigger part of his/ her soul is taking over by the God.
when one is in Heaven, he/she is part of God and no separate entitiy is existing, despite it looks like such
Angels, f.e. do not have separate entities, different opinions and wishes, than those of God.
so, their souls are overlapped by the God
so, they do not have their own souls…

Lord is my sheperd…
 
No, you are not just your soul. You are an embodied soul. When you die your soul takes on a different state of being, but will eventually be rejoined with your now, hopefully glorified, body for all eternity.
Right. Embodied souls are “persons.” We are neither bodies nor souls, but rather persons.
 
Is whatever it is that I refer to when I say ‘I’, the same thing as my soul?

If I am the same as my soul, how can I be concerned for the welfare of my soul when my soul is in a state of mortal sin?

If I am not the same as my soul, why should I be concerned for the welfare of my soul, why not just be concerned for the welfare of whatever ‘me’ is instead?
Well, okay. I guess I could comment on the third question.

If you are a person, a unity of both soul and body, then you should be concerned about your being, your “self.” Part of that concern would be spiritual concern for your soul; part would be concern for your body.

If you had no concern at all for your body, your life would be over soon (for example, you wouldn’t eat). But God gives this life to us to be good stewards.

Your soul, on the other hand, is more important, since the unity of soul and body exists for the sake of the soul. Our souls receive data and gain knowledge via our bodies.
 
If it was up to ‘me’, there would be a steak on this plate. But ‘I’ think it best to have chicken tonight. As for ‘myself’, both are fine.

A few years back, I wrote a whole paragraph like that, just to have fun… It did differentiate the various items in this package. I look at it this way: the ‘me’ is the physical body (senses); the ‘I’ is the Mind (intellect); and the ‘myself’ is the Soul (connection to the Spiritual Being). It is this interaction amongst the various aspects of our Humanness that are the whole package (Person).

And YES, without your Soul aspect you would not be you, as like without your Mental aspect, you would not be you, and the most easy to understand, without the Physical aspect, you would not be you. This being with how you understand yourself as a Person now, and others as well. You cannot loose any one of these without affecting the rest… the Conscience comes to mind here as the Soul reminds of what is right and wrong. And if we did wrong, it haunts (bothers) us, till we either confess it, or correct it directly. All these aspects are ‘interwoven’ in the making of YOU.

Your Soul is uniquely yours, as is your Mind and your Body (unique fingerprints and DNA)(yes, Science is helping us a bit as it goes). Your Soul, Mind and Body are God’s Gift to you… what you do with them is Your gift to God.

All in all, your question: “Am I the same thing as my Soul?” is looked at like: without your Soul, you would not be the same thing. (Meaning Person for ‘thing’) But your Soul is not your only thing… in the here and now.
 
i like your explanations, but obviously we have different topics. you talk about the existing status of a human being, my refelctions 2 and 4, wer mostly about the interaction of my soul with the entitiy of GOD…

Ad majorem Dei gloriam !
 
Valentin ok, but the more one grows in Faith, bigger part of his/ her soul is taking over by the God.
when one is in Heaven, he/she is part of God and no separate entitiy is existing, despite it looks like such
Angels, f.e. do not have separate entities, different opinions and wishes, than those of God.
so, their souls are overlapped by the God
so, they do not have their own souls…
Valentin, I was referring to the topic with the last post and the distinction between the Soul and the ‘I’… plus how it all comes together. (or apart).

So we are discussing the characteristics of the Soul, ours and Angels… here on Earth, as well as in Heaven (or the other place).
It would seem to me that the Angels are ‘separate’ entities with their own Soul (for identification), as well as Lucifer. In heaven one’s Soul does not seem to get ‘took over’ by God as much as that Souls willingness to ‘do Gods will’ (as a servant). Lucifer went the other direction with his Soul. More or less, does one want Gods Grace/Mercy/Love or does one want to be on their own (like an island)? Even in a group of like minded individuals, if one is an island, their help can only come from others on the same island (reference to Lucifer here). If we so choose to be one of Gods Children, we then answer to God and seek his assistance and guidance to preserve and grow that relationship.
As a Saint is in Heaven, they are still who they are in their Soul, but have done Gods will here on Earth, and continue to do it in Heaven, but more fully know God there. We here on Earth do have that Free-Will plus a lot of distractions. Angels do not have the distractions, but from what I can tell, still have the Will.
Our Guardian Angel comes to mind here. Does that Angle have a separate identity as an Angel? Or is it under Gods Wing and (shall we say here) just a piece of the Rock?
If God created the Universe and Angels and Earth with all that is in/on/above it, to include ‘us’, are we not separate entities? All that was created? But the Created is made in the image of the the Creator, so some of the Creator is in all that was created… for us it is the Soul.
 
Dan Michael, i liked that yours " piece of the Rock ".
that is exactly what is the real angel , not lucifer.
we also, the more we go closer to God, the more we loose our will and fulfil His will. that means part of our entity, is not our anymore, because it is with God. than closer and closer and more and more from our soul is going to Him. in Heavens everything is with Him, 100 %. if one is separate entity, than he/she will have at least tiny small his/her own difference. diffferents from the Holly Truth, means not 100 % with Him.
what we see in Abraham and in Holly Mother is that they, both, neglect their own wishes, neglect part of themselves, in order they do God’s will. in this part is He, not anymore Holly Mother or Abraham. but because we humans, God also made them humans, in order we understand the lesson.
that is the whole our story here in desert - to make us as clean as possible, in order we are closer to God. most of us can’t - that is why there is a confession and later there is a purgatory.

Hail Mary,
Full of Grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb, Jesus.
 
the more we go closer to God, the more we loose our will and fulfil His will. that means part of our entity, is not our anymore, because it is with God. than closer and closer and more and more from our soul is going to Him. in Heavens everything is with Him, 100 %
We seem to be saying the same thing but with different wording. The “Will” seems to be the catch. I believe that we have not ‘lost’ our will when we do what God wants, but only ‘matched’ our will to what He wants of us… it is still ours to do or not (freely)… at any time in the process we can baulk or protest or question the direction we are going. But who is it we direct that inquiry toward? St. Paul comes to mind (since it is his year), looking at his journey after being “blinded by the light”, he could of turned around at any given difficulty if he thought it too much to keep going. But, he kept asking God for Strength and Perseverance to continue the task that was before him… and WHO did he ask for that? God Himself! And Who ordained that task to be done? God! And St. Paul kept his will in the process, but it was so tuned to what God’s will was that they may have looked alike to the naked human eye. St. Paul’s Soul is still St. Paul, but now in Heaven.
From down here looking up, we view as we understand from this vantage point. I believe that once we are pure Soul, the vantage point of understanding will be fulfilled, and we will Know!
what we see in Abraham and in Holly Mother is that they, both, neglect their own wishes, neglect part of themselves, in order they do God’s will. in this part is He, not anymore Holly Mother or Abraham
I look at Marriage here. The Priest says “the two shall become one”. Physically we know this can not be so; Mentally perhaps they start thinking alike with time together; Spiritually the two Souls have been connected. And what really has happened when two Souls are connected? So as to become one? As St. Paul was connected to God. St. Paul was not God, even though he was doing God’s will by subjecting his Free-Will to God’s Will. Like becoming a servant for the master… an employee for the boss. Our Soul is then doing God’s will (as a servant/employee) but we are not God, even while doing His will. We will even see God in Heaven… How? With the ‘eyes’ of our Soul. Yes, God is with you when you follow His will, but He is not you, and you are not Him. We can get close(er) to Him be doing His bidding, like being married, but we are still separate. Separate identities. We are as one, but the Priest also said two. He did not say ‘you are one’, but that ‘you two shall be as one’. And I believe this is the same way in doing God’s will for us. We two may be as one, but we are still two… He is Him and I am me. Even though are will’s are matched.
 
you explain in very right way the matter, but miss to go to the end.
i will try again - we are born black, because of the sin of adam / eve; than we become white when we are baptized, that long short; in the course of the years we are grey, black and again close to white.final task is we are completelly white, that God is in us, completelly ! can’t be that i have my own entity and in the same time i am with God 100 %. that is when somebody goes to Heavens - 100 % white, 100 % God’s will, no personal needs / wishes/ specialities, that means no personality, just a name, may be. " part of the Rock ", as you said. if keeps personality = own wishes/ own thoughts, that means slightly separated by God. such human is the best case in purgatory, but most inthe cases - in hades.

Most powerful warrior and perfect mother
Witness to our Lord’s first breath
Pray unbend our stubborn fingers
Holding to this world of death
Open our hands to receive His graces
And to hold the shield and sword
Girded in truth and wielding love
As faithful soldiers for the Lord
 
final task is we are completelly white, that God is in us, completelly ! can’t be that i have my own entity and in the same time i am with God 100 %. that is when somebody goes to Heavens - 100 % white, 100 % God’s will, no personal needs / wishes/ specialities, that means no personality, just a name, may be.
Since it seems you are saying you can not be you (in Soul) and with God at the same time (100%), that we have lost who we are (except name maybe), and have no desires (will) in that God is in us completely, is how I read this. Since neither of us have been there (yet), how does this passage from Mark 9 figure in: "And after six days Jesus took with him Peter and James and John, and led them up a high mountain apart by themselves; and he was transfigured before them, 3 and his garments became glistening, intensely white, as no fuller on earth could bleach them. 4 And there appeared to them Eli’jah with Moses; and they were talking to Jesus. 5 And Peter said to Jesus, “Master, it is well that we are here; let us make three booths, one for you and one for Moses and one for Eli’jah.” The question I ask here is how did Peter, James and John recognize Eli’jah and Moses? And want to make a booth for each, without asking Jesus who ‘those other two guy were’? What does remain of us (Soul) when we get to Heaven? Enough for recognition with just a look… but, was it a look through the eye’s of the Soul that knew who Eli’jah and Moses were in there Souls in heaven?
I do not believe we are enveloped by God once in heaven, like a rain-drop landing in the ocean. I look at it like we are bathed in the light of God’s glory, like being warmed by the sunlight, even though the Sun is 93 million miles away. How can the Angels praise and give glory to God if they are 100% in God? They have to be separate to do that; and they have to want to do that by there will; so they have more then a name in Heaven. There are other stories in the Bible that relate to a poor man who got to Heaven while a rich one landed in Hades… each knew the other according to how Jesus says it, but neither could cross over. How did they each recognize each other?
Yes, we will have no more bodily needs, nor mental needs (we will know), and our Souls (Spiritual) needs are filled by God… so we will not need, we will have. But that will not remove our Souls Personality. And even here on Earth, our Souls Spiritual needs are filled by God… perhaps in Church; perhaps reading the Bible; perhaps through others (doing Gods will); perhaps a walk in the woods with Nature (God’s handiwork); perhaps playing with a dog (one of God’s creations); perhaps doing Gods will toward others (Charity); perhaps in other ways, God is not limited!
So, to me, the Soul maintains ones essential personality in the here-after… whether white, black, blue, green or red. Our Soul lives on… in one fashion or another… we decide by how we live in the here and now. And it is our Soul, you can not trade it for another, or swap it out, but you can dress it up, with God’s help… so one day you can bask in His (Full) Glory.
 
your words are very much convincing. what worries me, is that if one has a separate, his/her own soul in Heaven, that means there is a separation. if two things are separate, they have differentiation.
if his / her will is different than God’s one, than there is contradiction with all written about Heaven.
f.e. if God is 1 and i am 0,98, my place is not in Heaven, because i do not deserve it. or if today i am 0,98, but tomorrow 0,99, that means i am changing, again contradiction, because one is all and the same in Heaven - no distractions/no temptations anymore. or if i am 1,1, that is impossible that i am more than God. conclusion - my soul has to be also 1. if two things are 1 = no differentiation.
those are, of course, only contemplation of mine. could be ia m wrong. it always happens that Holly Spirit gives me the answer sooner or later…

“Lord Jesus, I believe you are the Son of God. Thank you for dying on the cross for my sins. Please forgive my sins and give me the gift of eternal life. I ask you in to my life and heart to be my Lord and Savior. I want to serve you always.”
 
what worries me, is that if one has a separate, his/her own soul in Heaven, that means there is a separation. if two things are separate, they have differentiation.
if his / her will is different than God’s one
Here is another Bible quote from Christ: “38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me”
And if you remember Christ before the Passion praying earnestly that ‘this cup will pass’ ‘but if it will not’ “Thy will be done”.
Seems God’s Son had a will of his own (in Heaven, and on earth), but He was here to do the will of His Father. (as we are suppose to).
One’s will does not determine identity (personality), the will is separate and denotes direction more-so…

Here is another Bible quote: "
For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, 15 from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named, 16 that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with might through his Spirit in the inner man, 17 and that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may have power to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, 19 and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fulness of God."
If you read that there is still separation of all that is given and the one receiving. Now… that all such has been received… what is the receiver going to do?
Also interesting, there are ‘families’ in Heaven. More Heavenly identity (personality) to think about…

You say: “those are, of course, only contemplation of mine”… what is Philosophy if not contemplation? Trying to answer/understand those tough questions; reaching an inch further then our fingers stretch. It is a health challenge, good for ones Heart/Mind/Soul. Yes, my fingers have reached another 1/2 inch… still working on the other half inch.
 
i can’t find easier quotes from the Holly Bible, as you do, since i read it in my mother tongue. but what is important to mention and to comment your quotes, is that the in Holly Bible every word can be read in different meaning. so, you mention Christ’ ‘this cup will pass’ ‘but if it will not’ “Thy will be done”.yes, of course, our earth supposed to be not 100 % in the hands of God, somehow. why ? because of the free will of the inhabitants. they could choose for God’s will or opposite. that is why God sent his Son and from time to time sends his Angels. there they are separated partially from the Creator, since they are in the place where the prince is the satan. situation in the Heavens is different, they become again the same.

'When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him.
 
Valentin, yes, there is translation, and with that, the meaning of words and phrases. So, in your mothers tongue (Bible) how does it confer Christ’s praying in the garden before his passion and what He said? The meaning of this should be the same in both tongue’s, although the exact words may be different (to convey that meaning). I know in my own national tongue that some of the sentences have words in reverse to convey the meaning as compared to this American/English I grew up with. The sentence construction is different, but the end result should be the same.

We are maybe saying the same thing but differently… if you know what I mean?

I look at the Will as the Rudder on the Ship. A ship is still a ship even without the rudder, but where will it go then? And if our Will is part of our Soul, and our Soul makes it to Heaven, doesn’t the Will go with it? It kinda comes down to which attribute goes with which part… body-mind-heart-soul. It would seem I place the Will with the Soul, while you place it with the heart or mind… so where is it???
 
Dan Michael, i mentioned my mother tongue and the Bible. i did not mean that Christ’s words sounds different. i meant that i can’t easily find any part of the Bible in mother tongue and than make it in english for you. that is why i use mostly presumption, but not quotes from Bible.
you mainly use now-days-explanation fo the topic. i would rather prefer to look into the mystical part. that is why we can’t agreed upon one meaning. if i use less mystical and more understanble language, my best are your words :
  • a drop in the Ocean
  • a part of the Rock
    i am very influenced by Jesuit spirituality and here is that St. Ignatius Loyola said :
Take, Lord, and receive all my liberty,
my memory, understanding, my entire will,
all that I have and call my own.
You have given all to me.
To you, Lord, I return it.
Do with it as you will.
Give me only your love and your grace:
that is enough for me.
 
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