Am I wrong for supporting this night club managers decision?

[andrewstx]

My thing is that I feel the owner has the right to run his business as he sees fit. The two men in question were asked to leave because they were being disruptive. Chances are some of his other patrons had complained to him. My Grandfather, Uncle,.and Mother all ran a ballroom during my growing up. None of these things would have been acceptable and the older people who came there wouldn’t have tolerated that happenings. I’m not being judgmental of these guys, I just know what the Bible says on homosexuality. Personally, if my husband and I were to go to a dance where this kind of thing took place werwould tell the owner and then leave and not go back to that club. I know what it is like to be discriminated against. I’ve been asked to leave places myself for different reasons I just left and not gone back. Way I see it is if they don’t want to play with me, I’ll kist take my ball and go home. I’ll find someone else to love and accept me for who I am. Why can’t the men do the same thing instead of ranting on bringing negative attention to the club? Walk out and say to the owner, Peace and leave it at that?
Why don’t these men just open up a club in the area for homosexuals?

Since you live in Houston you should know that Victoria is a very small town, especially compared to Houston.
I’m sure that Victoria does not have enough gays to have a club dedicated to them only.

 

[Lasting_faith]

If it is OK for two girls, or more, to dance, I think two men have that right to.

To dance is not a sin.

To be gay is not a sin, acting upon the sexual orientation is a sin, but a dance is not that, it is what it is, a dance.

If we start to judge people by race, complexion, political views, nationality or some other reason we are right back in the years when all that was more or less legal. Black people, sorry, I don’t want to offend anyone, had to fight for a right to get a seat in a bus, is that right? Nope, far from it.

 

[JB_Dugan]

If it is OK for two girls, or more, to dance, I think two men have that right to.

To dance is not a sin.

To be gay is not a sin, acting upon the sexual orientation is a sin, but a dance is not that, it is what it is, a dance.

If we start to judge people by race, complexion, political views, nationality or some other reason we are right back in the years when all that was more or less legal. Black people, sorry, I don’t want to offend anyone, had to fight for a right to get a seat in a bus, is that right? Nope, far from it.

No one has a right to offend other people.

The way I see this little incident…is nothing more than two gay guys offending people just to promote their agenda of acceptance.

Most people I know who are, at least, sympathetic to the homosexual condition are getting very tired of this “in your face behavior”. Little displays like this only promote alienation.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

No one has a right to offend other people.

The way I see this little incident…is nothing more than two gay guys offending people just to promote their agenda of acceptance.

Do you have any evidence that such was their motivation? When a heterosexual couple holds hands in public we don’t say they are doing so only to promote their heterosexual agenda, do we? Why is it so hard to imagine that a gay couple might do so for the very same reason as the heterosexual couple? It may be a disordered expression of affection, but it still is sincere to them.

 

[Reep]

Question for yall. A night club owner in Victoria Texas, asked two gay men who were dancing to a country song, to leave saying that if they wanted to dance to rap or rock songs. Do yall feel the night club owner had the right to ask the men to leave? Here is the incident in question.

Am I wrong to support this club owner??
I don’t know the right way to handle this situation. Please help me!

The club is private property and I believe the owner has the legal right to ask anyone to leave.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

The club is private property and I believe the owner has the legal right to ask anyone to leave.

That doesn’t mean the OP should support the decision. Something’s being legal doesn’t make it moral.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

No one has a right to offend other people.

Intentionally offending other people, while strongly discouraged, is not necessarily something to which one has no right. There are actions that range from subtle to overt that can be intentionally offensive. Placing a bumper sticker ones own car, sharing ones thoughts about another’s clothing, and even being an all around jerk when done within the constraints of the law may be forms of exercising ones rights.

Take note, I am not encouraging anyone to do these things. Whether or not forms of intentional offensive Ness are legal will depend on the laws for the area in which you live.

 

[polki]

If two Catholics were at a table in the bar saying the rosary together, should they be asked to leave so they don’t offend anyone? What if they made the sign of the cross and said grace before they had their drinks/food? Should they be kicked out because someone didn’t like it?

 

[Reep]

Originally Posted by Reep
The club is private property and I believe the owner has the legal right to ask anyone to leave.

That doesn’t mean the OP should support the decision. Something’s being legal doesn’t make it moral.

Of course you are right. It should be ***legal ***to exclude anyone from private property for any reason: criminal history, personal sexual vices, occupation, race, creed or color; it really doesn’t matter. Whether one should exclude is another matter. Some of those exclusions would be moral, some would not.

 

[Gigglin4God]

I was thrown out of a club in Texas myself… You know what I did? I LEFT, and went somewhere else. The owner of the club should be able to decide who can be in his club. In my case it was for being disruptive, but in any case, the owner makes the rules.

Even though I’m a lawyer, I disagreee with overintrusive laws telling us what we can do with our private property. I’m also tired of people suing every time someone is offended or upset. Boo-hoo, get over it. If you are gay, fine. But don’t expect everyone to accomodate you.

Thank you! Finally someone understands me and where I’m coming from!

 

[Gigglin4God]

No, I don’t think you do. The Bible doesn’t say men shouldn’t dance together, and it doesn’t say that gay people are wrong to be gay. The Bible condemns sodomy – that is, unnatural sexual behavior. And I very much doubt that these two men were engaging in sex acts on the dance floor.

Perhaps they don’t want to dance in a club for homosexuals?

You misunderstood me. I know the Bible says that homosexuality is wrong wrong wrong!.sodomy is wrong and all that which goes with it is wrong!!
I’m saying I’m tired of catering to the needs of these people who could care less about the way I feel. Oh no! I’m tired of feeling that I’m the one who is constantly to blame. Sorry, Good gave me a right to choose and to keep His Laws. My heart isn’t going to be hurt anymore. It’s God’s way or the highway for these people.

 

[Gigglin4God]

It’s been a while since I’ve hit the nightclubs, but I do generally support the owner’s right to enforce what goes on in the club.

If this were gays discriminated against in employment or harassed in the public schools I’d probably be taking their side. But this is something different. You might want to promote your establishment as a certain kind of club, and the management might think other patrons might think it’s “that kind of club” and would stay away. Just as I’d support the right of the owner of a gay club to keep me out. And just as I’d support dress codes or other conduct rules like kicking someone out for fighting.

By the way, I don’t agree with the supposed reason for the decision (“disruptive,” “safety risk”).

I agree with you totally!!!

 

[Reep]

If two Catholics were at a table in the bar saying the rosary together, should they be asked to leave so they don’t offend anyone? What if they made the sign of the cross and said grace before they had their drinks/food? Should they be kicked out because someone didn’t like it?

When you say “someone didn’t like it,” I assume you refer the bar owner (who may or may not choose to adopt the bigotry of of his customers).

Also, I want to clarify what you mean by asking "should" they be kicked out? If you are asking whether it would be right or moral to kick them out, then probably not. On the other hand, it would be immoral to use the state to force the property owner to serve them.

 

[Gigglin4God]

No. I think he has a right to remove people who are either for openly homosexual dancing, etc., or disturbing the peace, either one.

The Catholic Church also believes we shouldn’t participate in, or condone homosexual activities.

Exactly!

 

[Gigglin4God]

When is the gay community going to learn and practice propriety?

In the culture of the good ole’ U.S A., guys don’t dance with guys. It is “sort of” OK for girls to dance with girls but not exactly proper. In other cultures it may be acceptable for men to dance with men but…Texas??? come on.

Now, when I picture two gay guys dancing with each other in a Texas red-neck nightclub, I ask myself the question…what sort of suicide mission are these guys on?

Maybe the manager saved their lives…we don’t know how many of the "good-ole’-boys were on their way out to the parking lot to get shotguns from their trucks…do we? It could have gotten real ugly.

Right or wrong, legal or morally… the lesson here is simple: gay guys dance with guys at gay clubs but dance with the gals at red neck clubs. :tiphat:

I live an hour and 15 to 30 minutes from this place. Guys don’t dance with each other in redneck bars. Only reason the girls dance with each other is because they get tired of not having anyone to dance with that they more or less say heck with it and dance with each other. That is why line dancing started, to give the girls a chance to dance. .

This poster knows what they are talking about.

 

[Lasting_faith]

No one has a right to offend other people.

The way I see this little incident…is nothing more than two gay guys offending people just to promote their agenda of acceptance.

Most people I know who are, at least, sympathetic to the homosexual condition are getting very tired of this “in your face behavior”. Little displays like this only promote alienation.

No, you are right, nobody should offend anyone, but you see my friend, we are not the only people on this earth, so we must accept that others may think a bit different then we do.

What about this: you see a man and a woman kissing in public. What do you think? “That is awful, get a room, they can’t be married, so young, and KISSING, I must confess what I just saw!” What it may really be: a couple, married and all the trimmings, kissing in public just because they love each other. And if example one is right, they are not married and they should get a room, at least, what is offending you? I find nothing that would offend me, nothing. People have a right to act as they see fit, and why do you think two men are doing dancing together, out there just to offend people? Hardly. (But I guess that this is a part of the cultural barrier between the old and the new world, in Europe we are not so uptight and ready to judge, no, we do not approve it and think it is really not our business from the beginning, because it isn’t.) If there is gay-people we must live with it, it’s that simple. They do sin, but we sin more when we judge, which is not our job at all. A perfect world is impossible to achieve at this point, so we take what we have and move on.

 

[Corki]

I live an hour and 15 to 30 minutes from this place. Guys don’t dance with each other in redneck bars. Only reason the girls dance with each other is because they get tired of not having anyone to dance with that they more or less say heck with it and dance with each other. That is why line dancing started, to give the girls a chance to dance. .

This poster knows what they are talking about.

Anyone who doesn’t see a difference between girls dancing together (usually because the guys can’t or won’t dance) and two “gay” guys dancing together has never been in a dance club. There is an obvious difference.

 

[JB_Dugan]

Do you have any evidence that such was their motivation? When a heterosexual couple holds hands in public we don’t say they are doing so only to promote their heterosexual agenda, do we? Why is it so hard to imagine that a gay couple might do so for the very same reason as the heterosexual couple? It may be a disordered expression of affection, but it still is sincere to them.

No I don’t have any evidence to support my observation and you are right about boys & girls.

I am just “reading between the lines” and I could be wrong. However I go back to propriety.

There is a time and place for everything…including homosexual behavior AND boys & girls holding hands.

I am pretty sure that a respectable gay night club would frown on a patron dancing with a sheep.

(Please don’t tell me I am wrong about my example…)

 

[JB_Dugan]

No, you are right, nobody should offend anyone, but you see my friend, we are not the only people on this earth, so we must accept that others may think a bit different then we do.

What about this: you see a man and a woman kissing in public. What do you think? “That is awful, get a room, they can’t be married, so young, and KISSING, I must confess what I just saw!” What it may really be: a couple, married and all the trimmings, kissing in public just because they love each other. And if example one is right, they are not married and they should get a room, at least, what is offending you? I find nothing that would offend me, nothing. People have a right to act as they see fit, and why do you think two men are doing dancing together, out there just to offend people? Hardly. (But I guess that this is a part of the cultural barrier between the old and the new world, in Europe we are not so uptight and ready to judge, no, we do not approve it and think it is really not our business from the beginning, because it isn’t.) If there is gay-people we must live with it, it’s that simple. They do sin, but we sin more when we judge, which is not our job at all. A perfect world is impossible to achieve at this point, so we take what we have and move on.

What you say is very true. I was in Europe once and watched a man and a woman urinate in public on the curb in Paris. As an American, I found that disgusting…but I was not offended because, apparently, that is accepted behavior in France…also I did not want to be judgmental about a foreign culture.

To be sure, I have witnessed worse behavior in Asian and Muslim countries…and never judged.

BUT I reserve the right to be VERY judgmental about inappropriate behavior in my own culture.

 

[DexUK]

It’s God’s way or the highway for these people.

‘These people’?

“THESE PEOPLE”?

You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that gay people are somehow objectively worthy of being discriminated against, as though by their very nature they are to be reviled and rejected, as if they were another species even and not human.

If you believe that a business owner has the moral right to refuse service to “these people” he knows to be homosexual (since it is not possible to tell just by looking at two persons of the same gender who are not acting in a sexual fashion what their sexual orientation is, then he must have either had more knowledge or made an unfounded assumption), then in a small town, as this appears to have been, would the food store owner be within his moral rights to refuse to sell food to “these people”?

Is the water company within its rights to refuse to supply water and sanitation services to “these people”?

Is the bus company within its rights to refuse to carry “these people” on their vehicles? Or make them sit only in specific types of seat?

Is the car dealer within its rights to refuse to sell them an automobile?

Is everyone who dislikes homosexual sexual activity within their rights to refuse to conduct business with anyone whom they believe to be homosexual, regardless of the outcome?

Your position can only logically lend itself to the proposition that you wouldn’t lift a finger to object to discrimination on those bases… and that if it meant that a homosexual starved to death or died of thirst or was hounded out of town then that would be a-ok by you. Obviously nobody would be physically laying hands on such people or personally assaulting them. No individual would be causing an injury. But where would you stop? At what point would you tell someone that their prejudice and discrimination was actually going too far and was causing harm? When the person was homeless? Hungry? Thirsty? Sick? Clothed in rags? Ostracised?