Am I wrong for thinking this?

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CatholicTrekkie

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I had a talk with an atheist (not an atheist topic, more about if I’m being logically correct)

Basically, we got to the point where I was arguing that “Logic is simply a way of knowing Truth. Truth is logical, since we can find Truth by logic. However, Logic itself isn’t Truth. Truth is logical, but is not Logic Itself”.

Am I being illogical by saying that? The good atheist was saying I was. Just want to make sure.
 
CatholicTrekkie said:
I had a talk with an atheist (not an atheist topic, more about if I’m being logically correct)

Basically, we got to the point where I was arguing that “Logic is simply a way of knowing Truth. Truth is logical, since we can find Truth by logic. However, Logic itself isn’t Truth. Truth is logical, but is not Logic Itself”.

Am I being illogical by saying that? The good atheist was saying I was. Just want to make sure.
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You were being prefectly logical. Truth may be logical but I’ve never heard that truth is logic itself. It would be like saying that because a banana is a fruit that all fruits are bananas.

Buy your friend a bunch of grapes.
 
Truth is when some conception corresponds with reality. Logicality only applies to arguments. Truth and logicality are not interchangeable qualities, for an argument can be logical but not true. For example, all men have black hair; John is a man; therefore John HS black hair. Completely logical, but untrue.
 
starsmurf said:
You were being prefectly logical. Truth may be logical but I’ve never heard that truth is logic itself. It would be like saying that because a banana is a fruit that all fruits are bananas.

Buy your friend a bunch of grapes.
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Thank you. It makes sense to me, but I think he/she was using a bad definition of Logic. He/she replied that “If you remove logic from truth, then there is no truth. Logic: 2+2=4 Illogic: 2+2 = fish. The first one is true.”

I was defining truth as “That which is” and logic as a means of getting to the truth. Perhaps the other person was not willing to accept my definition, which they didn’t make clear. They were just saying why I was wrong, without saying why, I think. I could be wrong though and be very biased. Though when we were talking they made the statement that “Logic is the best way to understand truth”, which they then admitted cannot be proven using logic, because it would beg the question.

I guess the question is how “truth” and “logic” have been defined by people through the ages, which I’m pretty sure I was right in my definitions.

Maybe the ultimate truth is to not debate with atheists over the internet 😃 😛

Sorry, I’m scatter-brained and tired. Thanks for the help.
 
CatholicTrekkie said:
Thank you. It makes sense to me, but I think he/she was using a bad definition of Logic. He/she replied that “If you remove logic from truth, then there is no truth. Logic: 2+2=4 Illogic: 2+2 = fish. The first one is true.”
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If what you’re counting is fish then both are correct. 😃
 
CatholicTrekkie said:
I had a talk with an atheist (not an atheist topic, more about if I’m being logically correct)

Basically, we got to the point where I was arguing that “Logic is simply a way of knowing Truth. Truth is logical, since we can find Truth by logic. However, Logic itself isn’t Truth. Truth is logical, but is not Logic Itself”.

Am I being illogical by saying that? The good atheist was saying I was. Just want to make sure.
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I-65 is how I get to Birmingham. But I-65 is not Birmingham itself.

(It’s an analogy, not a proof, but I think that as an analogy, it works.)
 
Marocchino said:
Truth is when some conception corresponds with reality. Logicality only applies to arguments. Truth and logicality are not interchangeable qualities, for an argument can be logical but not true. For example, all men have black hair; John is a man; therefore John HS black hair. Completely logical, but untrue.
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DaveBj said:
I-65 is how I get to Birmingham. But I-65 is not Birmingham itself.

(It’s an analogy, not a proof, but I think that as an analogy, it works.)
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Thank you. That’s what I thought.

One other thing he/she said was that “You’re trying to argue that there exists some truth outside of logic” and I replied that he/she could only say that if one defined Logic as Truth. I was simply saying that Logic leads to Truth, but isn’t Truth Itself.

I kinda wish I had kept the chat log. Oh well. Perhaps when I talk with them next time.
 
maybe the ultimate truth is to not debate with atheists over the internet 😃 😛

Yes
 
Logic is the means of attaining a truthful conclusion via the use of other known truths. Or, as Google puts it:
  1. Reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity: “experience is a better guide to this than deductive logic”.
 
I would say that you are correct here. Logic is a framework and a means by which we can discover truth, but logic by itself doesn’t really exist - it’s a construct of the human mind based on our observations of reality.

You could apply the same reasoning to concepts such as “physics” or “history.” They are merely our recorded observations of reality, and in the case of physics we apply logic (in the form of math) to extrapolate and predict things.
 
CatholicTrekkie said:
I had a talk with an atheist (not an atheist topic, more about if I’m being logically correct)

Basically, we got to the point where I was arguing that “Logic is simply a way of knowing Truth. Truth is logical, since we can find Truth by logic. However, Logic itself isn’t Truth. Truth is logical, but is not Logic Itself”.

Am I being illogical by saying that? The good atheist was saying I was. Just want to make sure.
Click to expand...
Let’s check.

A is a way of knowing B. B has the property of A, since we can find B by A. However, A itself isn’t B. B has the property of A, but isn’t A itself.

Seems fairly logical.
 
Logic doesn’t always lead you to truth. It’s perfectly logical to think that the earth is flat. After all, the ground IS flat.
 
Miguel321 said:
Logic doesn’t always lead you to truth. It’s perfectly logical to think that the earth is flat. After all, the ground IS flat.
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It’s logical only if you don’t know all of the facts-if that’s literally your only face then yes, I’d think people who disagreed with you were being ridiculous actually. But if you know what we know today, it’s incredibly illogical to still be convinced the Earth is flat.
 
Marc_Anthony said:
It’s logical only if you don’t know all of the facts-if that’s literally your only face then yes, I’d think people who disagreed with you were being ridiculous actually. But if you know what we know today, it’s incredibly illogical to still be convinced the Earth is flat.
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True. I do believe that there are still people out there that believe that! I’ve never met one, though.
 
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