Am I wrong to be scandalized here? If so, can someone explain this to me?

[Magdalena59]

…

No I would not allow paganism or atheism. But I would welcome pagans and atheists. Our abbey does so all the time. They even roam into the blessed sacrament chapel sometimes… is that so terrible?

I would also not place paganism or atheism on the same plane as Islam. The latter is an abrahamic, monotheistic religion that started out from the same source as ours. That there was divergence and error later, there can be no doubt. But they do worship the same God as we do, albeit imperfectly.

I think the difference is, inviting and welcoming to come and visit and be a part of our Catholic Mass or Catholic events, all should be welcome, I agree but using the sanctuary as an inter faith service should not be. They are welcome but not as speakers but as learners and observers in the hopes we would bring them into the Catholic faith.

God bless.

 

[Tigg]

Am I wrong in thinking that this isn’t ok?

No, you are not wrong in your discernment and for desiring to protect the true faith. May you be richly blessed.

My problem is this. These “interfaith” events and “dialogues” are one-sided. You wrote:

*“The speaker spent 20 minutes quoting the Koran and Muhammad and talking about climate change. Then, after she sat down a local imam was invited up and chanted a big passage of the Koran in Arabic. We then did a few Catholic (but not too Catholic) songs and left.” *

Pray tell, just where was the witness and respect for Christ and His OHCA Church? That is why it was slanted toward PC, and we know what that’s getting us these days. And climate change - a theme rife with political overtones???..please…

Another elephant in the room is the undisputed fact that Catholics are, by and large, very ** uncatechized. Why are we listening to prayers in Arabic when I had 6th grade students in religious ed last year who could not even recite An Act of Contrition by memory? Why are we listening to the Koran when, by and large, Catholics do not understand the gospel message, nor the subsequent teaching of their own faith which flows from it? I see no ecumenism in this type of thing since by its very definition we are to seek reconciliation and unity and to promote* mutual* understanding with others. I fail to see where the mutuality occurred in this event, but I clearly see capitulation.

 

[Zipply]

This is why I don’t go to a Franciscan parish…

 

[andrewstx]

I remember several years ago when the first Franciscan interfaith gathering happened at Assisi it self. Presiding was Saint John Paul II himself. I seriously doubt that the Holy Father was scandalized by a meeting that he personally presided over.

 

[Tigg]

I remember several years ago when the first Franciscan interfaith gathering happened at Assisi it self. Presiding was Saint John Paul II himself. I seriously doubt that the Holy Father was scandalized by a meeting that he personally presided over.

Of course, the HF himself was not scandalized, nor did he intend anything of the kind. But the correct question would be “how many of the faithful were?”

 

[twf]

I will wire $10 000 to anyone who can demonstrate to me that a Muslim mosque has or would allow a Catholic priest to lead the recitation of the rosary in Latin…
It would never happen. Period.

 

[OraLabora]

I will wire $10 000 to anyone who can demonstrate to me that a Muslim mosque has or would allow a Catholic priest to lead the recitation of the rosary in Latin…
It would never happen. Period.

That may be true, but it doesn’t mean we have to be equally inhospitable. We’re called to be artisans of peace, not to always reply in kind when we’re not shown kindness.

 

[agnes_therese]

I will wire $10 000 to anyone who can demonstrate to me that a Muslim mosque has or would allow a Catholic priest to lead the recitation of the rosary in Latin…
It would never happen. Period.

So, you refuse to do anything they won’t do? Think about that for a few minutes.

 

[phil19034]

That may be true, but it doesn’t mean we have to be equally inhospitable. We’re called to be artisans of peace, not to always reply in kind when we’re not shown kindness.

If we had 80 to 95% weekly Mass attendance and everyone was well catechized, then I think this would be less scandalous.

But with 20 to 25% weekly Mass attendance, it further confuses un-catechized Catholics. It gives the wrong impression that all religions/sects are equal. Plus, of the 20 to 25% of the Catholics who attend weekly Mass; I would venture to guess that only 20-50% of them are well catechized.

 

[malphono]

So, you refuse to do anything they won’t do? Think about that for a few minutes.

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that was not twf’s point. I’m certainly no saint, but there are lots of things they might (and do) do that would never even come to my mind for consideration.

 

[OraLabora]

???
This was an “inter-faith” function, the OP said…isn’t that when people from other faiths come in and give talks about their faith?
If so, it would make perfect sense that someone who is Muslim would quote the Koran.

.

I agree. At the 2009 World Oblate’s Congress in Rome the them was inter-religious dialogue. We had a panel consisting of a Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim (a married couple in fact) a Jew and a Catholic talking briefly to us about their faiths and inter-religious dialogue. They weren’t trying to proselytize us, they were just helping us understand their faith bit better to give us grounds for dialogue.

I would point out that this initiative came from the highest levels and the Undersecretary of the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue gave us a very good talk on the subject of inter-religious dialogue.

 

[agnes_therese]

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that was not twf’s point. I’m certainly no saint, but there are lots of things they might (and do) do that would never even come to my mind for consideration.

Twf seems to be objecting to a Muslim speaking in a church because they wouldn’t let a priest lead a rosary in a mosque.

I simply don’t think we should use their actions as a standard for ours, that’s all.

 

[twoshoes]

I remember several years ago when the first Franciscan interfaith gathering happened at Assisi it self. Presiding was Saint John Paul II himself. I seriously doubt that the Holy Father was scandalized by a meeting that he personally presided over.

It has been stated here many times on this post, now I ask you directly. Do you see any problem in teaching from the Koran in a Catholic Church, in the presence of Our Lord Jesus Christ, who is to my understanding not seen as the Son of God by Islam? I’m talking about the Church itself, the Tabernacle, the temple of Jesus Christ who is present when the Consecrated host is present, the Altar where the Host is Consecrated, the Pulpit, where the Gospel is read everyday.

 

[twoshoes]

Teaching math, science, reading and writing is of great value and a very Christian thing to do, but to teach the Koran, and not the bible is what I would object to. The goal is the salvation of Souls for Jesus,

 

[Justin_Swanton]

Many posters in this thread (no disrespect meant at all) need to understand Islam more thoroughly. A small minority of Moslems in a non-Islamic country can be moderate and reasonable people, and most Moslems in Islamic states are not personally fanatical, but:

1. Islam is a social religion, which means that once Moslems are in an area in numbers, the reasonableness comes to an end. There is a war for the control of the area’s political, legal and social structures, using any means available to the Moslems. Once that war is won, non-moslems become second-class citizens, deprived of many freedoms and social privileges for as long as they remain non-moslem.
2. Fanatical Moslems are always able to take over an Islamic state of which the majority of Moslems are not fanatics. It’s a thing about Islam - it breeds fanaticism in a way Christianity does not. One is minded of the child soldiers of Ayatollah Khomeini, who were told they would be blown straight to Paradise when clearing Iraqi minefields. Suicide bombers… the most fanatical IRA terrorist does not commit suicide when attacking his enemy, but Moslems do it with alacrity.

When fanatics make their appearance in an Islamic state, the moderate Moslems have no means of opposing them. Islam gives the fanatics carte blanche, and deprives the moderates of any real ideological defence.

I have had a few religious discussions with a Moslem co-worker. We get along well. But he made clear what would happen to me if I tried speaking as freely in an Islamic state as I did to him. A knife in the throat (quote). People need to get real about Islam.

 

[severus68]

Many posters in this thread (no disrespect meant at all) need to understand Islam more thoroughly. A small minority of Moslems in a non-Islamic country can be moderate and reasonable people, and most Moslems in Islamic states are not personally fanatical, but:

1. Islam is a social religion, which means that once Moslems are in an area in numbers, the reasonableness comes to an end. There is a war for the control of the area’s political, legal and social structures, using any means available to the Moslems. Once that war is won, non-moslems become second-class citizens, deprived of many freedoms and social privileges for as long as they remain non-moslem.
2. Fanatical Moslems are always able to take over an Islamic state of which the majority of Moslems are not fanatics. It’s a thing about Islam - it breeds fanaticism in a way Christianity does not. One is minded of the child soldiers of Ayatollah Khomeini, who were told they would be blown straight to Paradise when clearing Iraqi minefields. Suicide bombers… the most fanatical IRA terrorist does not commit suicide when attacking his enemy, but Moslems do it with alacrity.

When fanatics make their appearance in an Islamic state, the moderate Moslems have no means of opposing them. Islam gives the fanatics carte blanche, and deprives the moderates of any real ideological defence.

I have had a few religious discussions with a Moslem co-worker. We get along well. But he made clear what would happen to me if I tried speaking as freely in an Islamic state as I did to him. A knife in the throat (quote). People need to get real about Islam.

What you have posted is true but only to a certain extent.

1. Indonesia has the largest number of Muslims in the world. It has chosen to remain a secular state. There are others.
2. If a country became a Catholic state with a minority of non-Catholics, wouldn’t it be likely that the most fanatical, the most power hungry, will try to control the rest by whatever means?
   There were Japanese suicide bombers during WWII.

The non-fanatical Muslims should then be helped by the super powers. ISIS does not practise Islam. Not one Muslim?muslim majority country defends them.

We can bash Islam or be an advocate of peace. Your Muslim co-worker may be a fanatic, not all Muslims are. The most notorious are also the most publicised.

 

[severus68]

I can understand why this upset you and would me also. It is one thing to have an interfaith dialoque or even a prayer event with those of different faiths but it should be held somewhere other than the sanctuary. I fully agree with you.

IMHO the sanctuary is a holy place, Jesus’ house, and it is kind of like with them only singing a few Catholic hymns, maybe saying a few Catholic prayers and the majority being Muslim they were neglecting Christ in his own house.

I have been to events where there were other faiths along with Catholics and we were in prayer for something but it wasn’t in the sanctuary of the Catholic church.

God bless.

Perhaps, the presence of Jesus would have “rubbed off” on them in some way?

 

[Magdalena59]

Perhaps, the presence of Jesus would have “rubbed off” on them in some way?

Perhaps. It does happen at times. I have personal experience of that, a spiritual awakening in the presence of our Lord in the Holy Eucharist. I think it is up to Catholics to demonstrate the respect we have for Our Lord in the Eucharist, though.

Interfaith events are fine and good but best held outside of the sanctuary. Again it is a very holy place.

 

[cheese_sdc]

a Muslim professor at the local university, to come up and speak from the pulpit, right next to the alter and the tabernacle (which had Jesus in it).

I don’t understand. Isn’t Jesus everywhere (according to Christian theology)? What does that matter?

 

[phil19034]

I don’t understand. Isn’t Jesus everywhere (according to Christian theology)? What does that matter?

Jesus is spiritually present everywhere, but physically present in the Eucharist, which are stored inside the Tabernacle.

When in the physical presence of Christ; we should be worshiping Him and adoring him. Which is why when Catholic’s use the Sanctuary and Nave for something other than Catholic worship (Mass, Adoration, prayer, etc.) we empty the Tabernacle.

The major issue here is that non-Catholic (and some non-Christian) things were going on in the physical presence of Christ and everyone ignored Him.

The Tabernacle should have been emptied, especially if the inter-faith service was going to be non-Catholic.

Analogy (admit not a great one); when any organization is having a special event and the President of the United States or the Queen of England is present; they treat the President and/or Queen with high regard and esteem with preeminence. Even if they are simply observers and not the focus of the event. If Christ is going to be Physically Present at an event, He should not be ignored.

I hope this helps.