Amazing Facts bible study guide

[SDA2RC]

Dear SDA2RC

Please don’t ever say that God only gave the Sabbath to the Jews – THERE WERE NO JEWS IN GENESIS 2:1 – THAT WAS 2500 YEARS BEFORE ANY JEW EXISTED, and Jesus already blessed the sabbath in the Garden of Eden, set it aside as a holy day to remember for all His followers!

God bless
Friedrich

Fredrich,
The Sabbath is not mentioned on the book of Genesis. 2500 years passed from Creation until the Sabbath. God blessed the 7th day of Creation, not every seventh-day. There is no command to keep the Sabbath in Genesis.

It is not me who says it was for the Jews… it was God who gave it to the Jews, and God who said it was a sign between He and them. Further, it was the Holy Spirit who inspired the writings that said that the Covenant at Mt. Sinai was not given to the fathers of the Jews.

The idea that the Sabbath was given at creation is another unfortunate example of Adventists reading into scripture their own beliefs. If you are going to say that the Sabbath was given to people other than the Jews you are going to have to show us a command to keep the weekly Sabbath that was given to or directed at any other people group. There is none…

Remember, to prove all things from scripture, dont assume. That is one of the many valuable things that Adventism taught me… unfortunately, while this command received lip service, I did not find it followed completely in Adventism like I do in Catholicism. As a Catholic I look at the whole Bible rather than a string of proof texts, in order to get a view of what scripture actually says.

If you can show me in Genesis where any person was commanded to keep the Sabbath, I will relinquish that point. However, I have not found it. In addition, you must remember that even if it were true, circumcision was also given before Sinai and was also done away with. We need to look at this in view of the entire Old Covenant. Scripture is all about God’s covenants with His people.

 

[Friedrich]

Dear SDA2RC

Don’t you find it ironical, that a Catholic, who can’t find ONE verse in the Bible that says: REMEMBER THE SUNDAY TO KEEP IT HOLY, is nitpicking that the WORD Sabbath does not appear in Genesis?

Genesis2: 1& 2 `Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array. By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY (set aside for special use = meaning of holy), because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.’’

Compare now with Exodus 20:8-11:
REMEMBER the Sabbath day by keeping it holy........ For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore THE LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY.

See the pattern? SEVENTH/SABBATH = SAME CONCEPT/DAY.

God bless,

Friedrich

 

[Friedrich]

Hi MarysRoses

Good to hear from you again.

You said:

Please show us where in the New Testament Jesus explicitly commands us to keep the seventh-day Sabbath and that our day of public worship MUST be on Saturday.

Is this a genuine question, MarysRoses?

If so,

May I ask YOU the same question: PLEASE SHOW US WHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT OR ANYWHERE IN THE WHOLE BIBLE JESUS EXPLICITLY COMMANDS US TO KEEP SUNDAY AND THAT OUR DAY OF PUBLIC WORSHIP MUST BE ON SUNDAY!

Jesus said:

``Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or ON THE SABBATH’’ Matthew 24:20

Jesus is talking about an event in 70 AD, when Roman armies would surround the city of Jerusalem, and they would have to flee to the mountains. WHY WOULD JESUS GIVE SUCH AN INSTRUCTION IF HE DIDN’T MEAN FOR THEM TO KEEP THE SABBATH IN 70 AD?

By the way, I am tired of going around in circles. You have to decide if you want to follow Jesus’ example and instructions, or those of your church fathers and bishops. As for me and my house…

Have a lovely day, and God bless you my sister,

Friedrich

 

[SDA2RC]

Dear SDA2RC

Don’t you find it ironical, that a Catholic, who can’t find ONE verse in the Bible that says: REMEMBER THE SUNDAY TO KEEP IT HOLY, is nitpicking that the WORD Sabbath does not appear in Genesis?

Not at all. because it shows that there was no mention of the Sabbath prior to the Exodus…when it was give to the JEWS.

We dont keep Sunday because it is explicity commanded in Scripture, we keep it because the the Church was given the authority to establish these things in Scripture and scripture commands us to obey and submit to our the Church leaders. When we disagree, we are told to go to the leaders of the Church, no scripture.

Genesis2: 1& 2 `Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array. By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY (set aside for special use = meaning of holy), because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.’’

Compare now with Exodus 20:8-11:
REMEMBER the Sabbath day by keeping it holy........ For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore THE LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY.

See the pattern? SEVENTH/SABBATH = SAME CONCEPT/DAY.

God bless,

Friedrich

There is no pattern Friedrich, God rested on one day… not one in every seven. He commanded the Jews to rest one in every seven… Two completely different things.

 

[MarysRoses]

Dear SDA2RC

Don’t you find it ironical, that a Catholic, who can’t find ONE verse in the Bible that says: REMEMBER THE SUNDAY TO KEEP IT HOLY, is nitpicking that the WORD Sabbath does not appear in Genesis?

Catholics do not claim to worship on sunday due to a biblical command. If you had read the previous 100 plus posts you would realize this.

Genesis2: 1& 2 `Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array. By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY (set aside for special use = meaning of holy), because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.’’

This verse says nothing about commanding a weekly sabbath observance. You inserted your definition of “holy”. You are using the word in a very limited sense. You limit this day God is talking about to a literal day of the week. Yet if you really read the scripture… God rested from his work of creation… it was finished. There is no comment of God beginning his work again in a cycle. “holy” in hebrew means more than set apart for special use. The root for holy is the same as prostitute… That seems a bit shocking. But a prostitute lives and works outside the normal boundaries of her society.

jewishmag.com/39MAG/holy/holy.htm

(this is not a catholic source btw)

God is HOLY, he is outside the normal bound of our limited ability to understand him. He is infinite and we are finite. In making his rest from creation Holy, God placed his rest (literally his ceasing) outside the bounds of normal time and space, beyond the possibility of full human understanding. The seventh day is distinguished from the other six by more than rest and a blessing… As an Adventist, I always missed this critical difference until many years later. I wonder if you can find it?

Later, he gave his people as part of the Old Covenant a weekly reminder and symbol of his divine rest. That covenant is gone, fulfilled. While it is still find to respect the sabbath and keep it if you want… it is no longer mandatory. The Council of Jerusalem recorded in the book of Acts and St. Paul in his epistles make that very clear. Christians live under the New Covenant. Paul even says in Hebrews that the Jews were not able to enter into the divine rest through the works of the law. The divine rest is MORE than a specific day of the week. It is infinite. Jesus is our sabbath rest, only in him is the shadow fulfilled.

Compare now with Exodus 20:8-11:
REMEMBER the Sabbath day by keeping it holy........ For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore THE LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY.

See the pattern? SEVENTH/SABBATH = SAME CONCEPT/DAY.

Did you notice the blessing is worded differently than the Creation story? sabbath means ‘cease’ not seventh. They also had other sabbaths that were not on saturday. There is no biblical distinction between the weekly sabbath and these other holy days. God also gave another reason for the weekly day of rest, Have you read the account of the Ten Commandments in Deuteronomy?

Deuteronomy 5:1-13

**2The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

3The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

4The LORD talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,

5(I stood between the LORD and you at that time, to shew you the word of the LORD: for ye were afraid by reason of the fire, and went not up into the mount saying,

6I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

7Thou shalt have none other gods before me.

8Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:

9Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,

10And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

11Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

12Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.

13Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:

14But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ***, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.

15And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
**

Two very important details to understanding the 7th day sabbath:

WHO is this covenant made with?

3The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

WHAT were they to remember?

****15And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

---

There are two remembrances in these two versions of the 10 commandments. Unless the bible is contradicting itself, which we both agree is not a good answer… why are there two reasons?

What do they have in common? NOT creation… and NOT freedom from slavery… So WHAT really were they to remember?

REST. That is the commonality of the two reasons. How do you enter into the divine rest? Under the old covenant… God gave them a finite day to enter into this divine reality. Under the new… We have God Himself in the person of His divine Son, Jesus.
The Jews failed to enter into this divine, HOLY beyond human conception, rest that was hidden in the shadow of a day…
Christians have Jesus, who is all Holy and we find our rest in Him.
Again, fulfilling the shadow.

Adventists make the mistake of taking something infinitely Holy and beyond human understanding, and trying to tie it to something very limited… a particular day of the week.

God Bless,
MarysRoses

 

[Nan_S]

Compare now with Exodus 20:8-11:
REMEMBER the Sabbath day by keeping it holy........ For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore THE LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY.

God bless,

Friedrich

Frederich, would you explain something to me? To wit: how strictly do SDA’s follow the command to do no work on the Sabbath?

If your car was sitting in the driveway and had a flat tire, would you fix it on a Saturday?

What if the car with the flat was blocking your other car, so you couldn’t get out to drive to Sabbath worship services unless you changed the flat tire? Would you change the tire, leave it and call a taxi instead (thereby making the cabbie work and violating Deut 5:14), or would you sit at home until the next day?

What if you were on your way to Sabbath worship services and your car blew a tire on the interstate. Would you change the tire then?

I’m asking, because I’m trying to contrast two ideas: strictly following the Ten Commandments as written (which is what you and the other SDAs seem to be advocating), or ascertaining the real intent behind the OT law and following that instead (which is what the Catholics here seem to be advocating).

As I posted earlier, in Acts 15 the Gentile Christians were required to follow Jesus’ Two Commandments of Love God and Love Your Neighbor (which includes not coveting, lying, murdering, etc., etc), but were deemed to be exempt from following the burdens of Jewish law except for a few minimum necessary prohibitions.

Thanks, Nan

 

[Friedrich]

Morning NanS

You made my day! A lovely, positive reply in true Christian spirit…

Frederich, would you explain something to me? To wit: how strictly do SDA’s follow the command to do no work on the Sabbath?

If your car was sitting in the driveway and had a flat tire, would you fix it on a Saturday?

Thank you for this open hearted question.
We try to make the Sabbath the HIGHLIGHT of the week, like an anniversary to Creation, so that God can Re-Create us in His image through Bible Study, Fellowship, Good Works, Nature etc.

1. ``Keep my Sabbaths holy, that they may be a sign between us. Then you will know that I am the Lord your God’’ Ezekiel 20:20 – we treat ALL 24 HOURS with RESPECT.
2. ``Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy’’… Exodus 20:8
   – we try to REMEMBER it by planning for Sabbath, and preparing our homes, clothes, meals and hearts on Friday (the Day of Preparation) for God’s visit.
3. ``If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath and from doing as you please on my holy day, if you call the Sabbath a DELIGHT and the Lord’s holy day honourable…’’ Isaiah 58:13
   – we have special supper Friday evening to open' the Sabbath, have lovely breakfasts (lots of fruit, smoothies etc.), special lunch, fun activities for the kids, like nature walks, hospital visitation, Pathfinder’ activities where they learn about God’s handiwork in nature etc.; and of course a special `Sabbath closing’ where we get together, sing favourite hymns, share testimonies and blessings received during the day!
4. ``When the neighbouring peoples bring merchandise or grain to sell on the Sabbath; we will not buy from them on the Sabbath or on any holy day’’ (ceremonial sabbaths), Nehemiah 10:31 – even our wallets REST on Sabbath!

Of course this presumes that we LOVE TO SPEND TIME WITH JESUS! If we don’t it could become a horrible, long ritual that interrupts our busy weeks! The Jews, sadly, had over 1000 laws that made the Sabbath a curse to them (you could not even spit on Sabbath, in case you might irrigate' some grass, and thus work...), so Christ had to radically remind them that the Sabbath was meant to be a BLESSING -- ``Going on from that place, he went into their synagogue, and a man with a shrivelled hand was there. Looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, they asked him, Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?’ He said to them, `If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out? (the car with the punctured tyre on Sabbath!)? How much more valuable is a man than a sheep! Therefore IT IS LAWFUL TO DO GOOD ON THE SABBATH.’
Then he said to the man, Stretch out your hand.'' So he stretched it out and it was completely restored, just as sound as the other. But the Pharisees went out and plotted how they might kill Jesus.'' Matthew 12:9-13 (have you ever wandered what the Pharisees would have done to Jesus' disciples if they had started preaching that the Sabbath was nailed to the cross and Sunday was now the Sabbath?! Of course they didn't, so no fuss, except over circumcision!) 5. So yes, DOING GOOD ON THE SABBATH is the true spirit of Sabbath keeping -- nurses and doctors work (do only necessary work, maintenance etc. waits for weekdays), and all Christians work on Sabbath when somebody needs their help -- flat tyre etc. Some SDAs are even asked by orthodox Jews to open their synagogue on Saturday because it would be sin for them to do so... 6. NB The Sabbath is about Jesus, and meant to be of blessing to us. It is a day of REST FOR THE SOUL -- true Sabbath keeping can only be appreciated by the converted soul whose life belongs to Christ -- For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about A SABBATH-REST for the people of God; for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from his own work (trying to earn salvation via works), just as God did from his. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.’’ Hebrews 4:8-11

Yes NanS, legalistic obedience to the Sabbath is NOT God’s intention, but rather a delightful day of 24 hours where we are FREE not to worry about exams, business, work, our losing sport teams, the latest horrors on the news! Imagine having the privilege every week of saying NO to all worldly cares, and YES to heavenly matters – but NOT forgetting our duties to our fellow man even while enjoying these sacred, set-apart hours of God…

During Creation God gave us 2 great institutions – the Sabbath, and the Family. Satan is hell-bent on destroying both of them, because they both draw us closer to God, in time and fellowship…

It is Friday today, I did all my shopping yesterday pm, will help my wife vacuum the house this pm after work. The washing for the week has been done, my son is home from a long trip of 2 weeks; as a family we can’t wait to have a lovely supper with Jesus this evening when the sun sets!

God bless

Friedrich

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Morning NanS

You made my day! A lovely, positive reply in true Christian spirit…

Thank you for this open hearted question.
We try to make the Sabbath the HIGHLIGHT of the week, like an anniversary to Creation, so that God can Re-Create us in His image through Bible Study, Fellowship, Good Works, Nature etc.

1. ``Keep my Sabbaths holy, that they may be a sign between us. Then you will know that I am the Lord your God’’ Ezekiel 20:20 – we treat ALL 24 HOURS with RESPECT.
2. ``Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy’’… Exodus 20:8
   – we try to REMEMBER it by planning for Sabbath, and preparing our homes, clothes, meals and hearts on Friday (the Day of Preparation) for God’s visit.
3. ``If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath and from doing as you please on my holy day, if you call the Sabbath a DELIGHT and the Lord’s holy day honourable…’’ Isaiah 58:13
   – we have special supper Friday evening to open' the Sabbath, have lovely breakfasts (lots of fruit, smoothies etc.), special lunch, fun activities for the kids, like nature walks, hospital visitation, Pathfinder’ activities where they learn about God’s handiwork in nature etc.; and of course a special `Sabbath closing’ where we get together, sing favourite hymns, share testimonies and blessings received during the day!
4. ``When the neighbouring peoples bring merchandise or grain to sell on the Sabbath; we will not buy from them on the Sabbath or on any holy day’’ (ceremonial sabbaths), Nehemiah 10:31 – even our wallets REST on Sabbath!

Of course this presumes that we LOVE TO SPEND TIME WITH JESUS! If we don’t it could become a horrible, long ritual that interrupts our busy weeks! The Jews, sadly, had over 1000 laws that made the Sabbath a curse to them (you could not even spit on Sabbath, in case you might irrigate' some grass, and thus work...), so Christ had to radically remind them that the Sabbath was meant to be a BLESSING -- ``Going on from that place, he went into their synagogue, and a man with a shrivelled hand was there. Looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, they asked him, Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?’ He said to them, `If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out? (the car with the punctured tyre on Sabbath!)? How much more valuable is a man than a sheep! Therefore IT IS LAWFUL TO DO GOOD ON THE SABBATH.’
Then he said to the man, Stretch out your hand.'' So he stretched it out and it was completely restored, just as sound as the other. But the Pharisees went out and plotted how they might kill Jesus.'' Matthew 12:9-13 (have you ever wandered what the Pharisees would have done to Jesus' disciples if they had started preaching that the Sabbath was nailed to the cross and Sunday was now the Sabbath?! Of course they didn't, so no fuss, except over circumcision!) 5. So yes, DOING GOOD ON THE SABBATH is the true spirit of Sabbath keeping -- nurses and doctors work (do only necessary work, maintenance etc. waits for weekdays), and all Christians work on Sabbath when somebody needs their help -- flat tyre etc. Some SDAs are even asked by orthodox Jews to open their synagogue on Saturday because it would be sin for them to do so... 6. NB The Sabbath is about Jesus, and meant to be of blessing to us. It is a day of REST FOR THE SOUL -- true Sabbath keeping can only be appreciated by the converted soul whose life belongs to Christ -- For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about A SABBATH-REST for the people of God; for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from his own work (trying to earn salvation via works), just as God did from his. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.’’ Hebrews 4:8-11

Yes NanS, legalistic obedience to the Sabbath is NOT God’s intention, but rather a delightful day of 24 hours where we are FREE not to worry about exams, business, work, our losing sport teams, the latest horrors on the news! Imagine having the privilege every week of saying NO to all worldly cares, and YES to heavenly matters – but NOT forgetting our duties to our fellow man even while enjoying these sacred, set-apart hours of God…

During Creation God gave us 2 great institutions – the Sabbath, and the Family. Satan is hell-bent on destroying both of them, because they both draw us closer to God, in time and fellowship…

It is Friday today, I did all my shopping yesterday pm, will help my wife vacuum the house this pm after work. The washing for the week has been done, my son is home from a long trip of 2 weeks; as a family we can’t wait to have a lovely supper with Jesus this evening when the sun sets!

God bless

Friedrich

Thank you Friedrich. What a beautiful explaination of how we are to keep the Sabbath. I am looking forward to the day when we as God’s bride will share that meal with Jesus face to face.
Rev. 21:2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

1Cor.13:10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Won’t that be a wonderful day Friedrich. Perhaps your family and my family could sit together as we enjoy that Sabbath meal and gaze on the beautiful face of our loving Savior.

In Christ Richard

 

[Friedrich]

Thank you Richard,

Not just our families – the families of Richard, Nan S, MercyGate, SDA2RC, Protestant 101 and ALL God’s other childen on these forums!

I am just filling up the baptism font (plus heater – it is winter here) for a beautiful baptism tomorrow morning where 3 precious souls are publicly being buried in Christ' so that they can rise from the water as new creatures’, raised from the death of sin!
Happy Sabbath!

Friedrich

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Catholics do not claim to worship on sunday due to a biblical command. If you had read the previous 100 plus posts you would realize this.

This verse says nothing about commanding a weekly sabbath observance. You inserted your definition of “holy”. You are using the word in a very limited sense. You limit this day God is talking about to a literal day of the week. Yet if you really read the scripture… God rested from his work of creation… it was finished. There is no comment of God beginning his work again in a cycle. “holy” in hebrew means more than set apart for special use. The root for holy is the same as prostitute… That seems a bit shocking. But a prostitute lives and works outside the normal boundaries of her society.

jewishmag.com/39MAG/holy/holy.htm

(this is not a catholic source btw)

God is HOLY, he is outside the normal bound of our limited ability to understand him. He is infinite and we are finite. In making his rest from creation Holy, God placed his rest (literally his ceasing) outside the bounds of normal time and space, beyond the possibility of full human understanding. The seventh day is distinguished from the other six by more than rest and a blessing… As an Adventist, I always missed this critical difference until many years later. I wonder if you can find it?

Later, he gave his people as part of the Old Covenant a weekly reminder and symbol of his divine rest. That covenant is gone, fulfilled. While it is still find to respect the sabbath and keep it if you want… it is no longer mandatory. The Council of Jerusalem recorded in the book of Acts and St. Paul in his epistles make that very clear. Christians live under the New Covenant. Paul even says in Hebrews that the Jews were not able to enter into the divine rest through the works of the law. The divine rest is MORE than a specific day of the week. It is infinite. Jesus is our sabbath rest, only in him is the shadow fulfilled.

Did you notice the blessing is worded differently than the Creation story? sabbath means ‘cease’ not seventh. They also had other sabbaths that were not on saturday. There is no biblical distinction between the weekly sabbath and these other holy days. God also gave another reason for the weekly day of rest, Have you read the account of the Ten Commandments in Deuteronomy?

Deuteronomy 5:1-13

**2The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

3The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

4The LORD talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,

5(I stood between the LORD and you at that time, to shew you the word of the LORD: for ye were afraid by reason of the fire, and went not up into the mount saying,

6I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

7Thou shalt have none other gods before me.

8Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:

9Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,

10And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

11Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

12Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.

13Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:

14But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ***, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.

15And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
**

Two very important details to understanding the 7th day sabbath:

WHO is this covenant made with?

3The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

WHAT were they to remember?

****15And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

---

There are two remembrances in these two versions of the 10 commandments. Unless the bible is contradicting itself, which we both agree is not a good answer… why are there two reasons?

What do they have in common? NOT creation… and NOT freedom from slavery… So WHAT really were they to remember?

REST. That is the commonality of the two reasons. How do you enter into the divine rest? Under the old covenant… God gave them a finite day to enter into this divine reality. Under the new… We have God Himself in the person of His divine Son, Jesus.
The Jews failed to enter into this divine, HOLY beyond human conception, rest that was hidden in the shadow of a day…
Christians have Jesus, who is all Holy and we find our rest in Him.
Again, fulfilling the shadow.

Adventists make the mistake of taking something infinitely Holy and beyond human understanding, and trying to tie it to something very limited… a particular day of the week.

God Bless,
MarysRoses

Hello Mary Roses, I have learned alot from your past SDA experience, and how detailed your responses have been. I dont think the SDA’s are fairly reading all of your responses, because they dont question the depth meaning and understanding of the concept of biblical christian truth, instead they argue their misunderstandings of the catholic belief they are trained to dispute rather than enter the spiritual depths of sacred scripture.

Example; SDA would want the scriptures to indicate explicitly for them, that Sunday was the day to worship, as the Sabbath is written in the old testament. When we know the apostles and the first Christians entered the Communial life, in the breaking of bread, and prayers on the first day, which is Sunday. You have explained beautifully the understanding of true Christianity in the life of the Spirit, from those who try to keep the Law, to which Jesus saved us. It is nothing short of a miracle for God to reveal himself to you, from the Letter of the law, that can keep others in bondage to the Law. No one can go to the father except through Jesus. I dont know why SDA believe the law can save them?

Because the SDA’s have been side tracking the question on how do they keep the Sabbath according to the dictate of the Law. Can an x SDA explain here, because SDA believe keeping the Sabbath can save them; How can an SDA keep the Sabbath, according to the dictate of the Law? I dont believe the SDA can keep the sabbath according to the dictate of the Law? or do SDA practice their own way of sabbath keeping, if they do, how do they justify keeping the sabbath, when they dont follow the dictates of the scriptural law given to keep the sabbath, when they preach they follow the law and the scriptures? See my confusion about this SDA belief system. I dont want to know, why they think my Catholic faith is wrong, I think they spend to much time training their members to discredit Catholic belief’s than following the dictates of the scriptural laws to keep the Sabbath.

Can you give one looking from the outside in, on how do SDA’s think they are following the Sabbatical laws of the old covenant? We know that Jesus resurrected is the temple of God, how do SDA’s follow the law without an earthly temple in Jerusalem? One other insight, to make one aware of , when an SDA states where is that in scripture? should’nt they ask themselves where does it state in scripture not to follow the Church of the apostles and their Traditions and teachings they handed down to the Catholic church today?

Thank you in advance; Peace

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Thank you Richard,

Not just our families – the families of Richard, Nan S, MercyGate, SDA2RC, Protestant 101 and ALL God’s other childen on these forums!

I am just filling up the baptism font (plus heater – it is winter here) for a beautiful baptism tomorrow morning where 3 precious souls are publicly being buried in Christ' so that they can rise from the water as new creatures’, raised from the death of sin!
Happy Sabbath!

Friedrich

Wow, that is interesting, you hold to a 2000 year old Catholic teaching of baptism, that makes us a new creation in Jesus Christ, but you want to hold the baptised to the same laws that convicted them into the baptism waters. Unless you dont believe in regeneration of baptism? and just use biblical terms to justify the act the baptism. Please dont get this as a negative comment. I am glad that you believe in baptism, not all is lost.

But do you believe in baptism the way the apostles traditioned it and taught it to the Catholic church? That it is a regeneration and it removes all sin including original sin, that you die to self and are reborn in Jesus Christ, where nothing can seperate you from God, including death? Using biblical terms and not believing what they convey is a conflict of belief with sacred scripture and the apostolic teaching from the first century.Unless you follow the apostolic traditional baptism, I dont know? In any case I am happy for your baptism’s.

Peace

 

[Protestant101]

Dear Gabriel of 12

Please understand how arrogant/strange your claim seems to people who are not Catholic!

Please understand, I grew up under an evil system called apartheid. I do not take any responsibility for the atrocities committed by it’s leaders. But that does not mean I am to turn a blind eye to the wrongs of those leaders!. Likewise, I am not trying to down anybody’s religion, or hurt your feelings, but when you claim a pure undefiled direct connection with Jesus via chosen bishops, it seems to contradict the facts of history, and make me wonder how you come to such a conclusion.

Sincerely yours in Christ

Friedrich

You know Freidrich, you make many good points in your posts here. For a while; I thought to leave this forum, based upon some of this so called “direct connection” that seemed to have gone the way of the wind. But; the facts of history which you allude to indicate that such treatment will always exist amongst Christians; and it may still be worthwhile to try and share and compare what God has revealed to us; and how He speaks to us His message of truth, peace, and the Foundation of His Church.

 

[Protestant101]

The Bible plainly states that the covenant IS the Ten Commandments! And as is rightly noted in Hebrews… it has been done away with!

The many innacuracies in your post show a clear mistake about the Bible’s views of “The Covenants.”

The “covenant” (I presume you mean Old) is not used by the Bible Synonomously with “Law” or “God’s Law.” They are two different words, meaning two different things.

In a nutshell: A covenant is simply an agreement about something. In this case; the “covenant” is regarding God’s law, but it is not God’s law.

The Bible tells us that when God was giving the people His Ten Commandment Law, that the people replied: “All that you have commanded; WE WILL DO.” God accepted this covenant, and the people of God proved how they were NOT able to do this on their own.

Later, walking down the corridors of Bible History, (HIS-Story) we see God again, establishing another covenant, (The New Covenant); which again, was simply an agreement about something. In this case; it was once more about God’s Ten Commandment Law. However, there was a difference this time. While the agreement was about God’s Ten Commandment Law; this time it was God making the promise:

“I WILL WRITE MY LAW ON YOUR HEART.” This enables Christians of all ages to avoid the pitfalls of trying to obey the law in their own strength and “wisdom;” and allows God to “fulfill” His law in us, as He did His Son. This New Covenant was indeed based upon a “better promise.” The promise of God to which all believers can find covenant relationship to God, our Savior. This is why Jesus said so clearly:

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Rather than “doing away with His Law”; Jesus’ aim is to clarify it and write it upon our hearts.

 

[MarysRoses]

The many innacuracies in your post show a clear mistake about the Bible’s views of “The Covenants.”

The “covenant” (I presume you mean Old) is not used by the Bible Synonomously with “Law” or “God’s Law.” They are two different words, meaning two different things.

In a nutshell: A covenant is simply an agreement about something. In this case; the “covenant” is regarding God’s law, but it is not God’s law.

The Bible tells us that when God was giving the people His Ten Commandment Law, that the people replied: “All that you have commanded; WE WILL DO.” God accepted this covenant, and the people of God proved how they were NOT able to do this on their own.

Later, walking down the corridors of Bible History, (HIS-Story) we see God again, establishing another covenant, (The New Covenant); which again, was simply an agreement about something. In this case; it was once more about God’s Ten Commandment Law. However, there was a difference this time. While the agreement was about God’s Ten Commandment Law; this time it was God making the promise:

“I WILL WRITE MY LAW ON YOUR HEART.” This enables Christians of all ages to avoid the pitfalls of trying to obey the law in their own strength and “wisdom;” and allows God to “fulfill” His law in us, as He did His Son. This New Covenant was indeed based upon a “better promise.” The promise of God to which all believers can find covenant relationship to God, our Savior. This is why Jesus said so clearly:

Rather than “doing away with His Law”; Jesus’ aim is to clarify it and write it upon our hearts.

There you go again…

Clinging to the standard set of proof texts and pat explanations…
Have you ever really looked at these verses:

2 Corinthians 3:6-7:
**6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

7But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: **

You are upholding what St. Paul calls the “Ministration of death…”
unless you know of another law written in stones.

Collosians 2:14-17

**14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

15And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. **

Yet the Adventists want to tell us we worship on the wrong day of the week, are sinful if we eat pork, will be weak in our spiritual discernment if we eat animal foods and will in the end be lost if we do not give up our “Sunday keeping” churches and join their ‘remnant’.

Yet not one Adventist has agreed to step outside of their comfortable prooftexting to study Genesis in context with Patrick.

Not one single credible answer to my question of how to identify, biblically, what day is ‘saturday’ around the international dateline or where there is no daily sunset … such as in space or on the moon. That is not a silly question… its very serious. If it is sin to not observe saturday… then there should be a way to always identify this special slice of time. If there is not, then it is highly questionable it would be a matter of sin or salvation.

The tree of knowledge in the Garden was a test. God pointed out a very specific tree and gave Adam very clear instructions that he was not to eat the fruit.

If the Sabbath is a similar test… there should be clear instructions.
Yet, there is no record of the sabbath being kept until the time of moses. Not one verse mentions Enoch, Noah, Abraham, etc keeping the sabbath. There is no mention in the book of Acts that Gentiles should keep the sabbath. There is no discussion of the importance of sabbath keeping in the NT.

God is just, he does not make salvation an obscure puzzle for only a few to figure out.

MarysRoses

 

[Nan_S]

Later, walking down the corridors of Bible History, (HIS-Story) we see God again, establishing another covenant, (The New Covenant); which again, was simply an agreement about something. In this case; it was once more about God’s Ten Commandment Law. However, there was a difference this time. While the agreement was about God’s Ten Commandment Law; this time it was God making the promise:

"I WILL WRITE MY LAW ON YOUR HEART." This enables Christians of all ages to avoid the pitfalls of trying to obey the law in their own strength and “wisdom;” and allows God to “fulfill” His law in us, as He did His Son. This New Covenant was indeed based upon a “better promise.” The promise of God to which all believers can find covenant relationship to God, our Savior. This is why Jesus said so clearly:

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Rather than “doing away with His Law”; Jesus’ aim is to clarify it and write it upon our hearts.

Your signature picture looks great. But it is a little tiny. Seems to be the Earth as seen from space, sun rising over the horizon, doves superimposed above the atmosphere. Where did you get it?

Mt 5:18 read in context with 5:17 before it puts a slightly different slant on the passage:
17 "Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them. 18 For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.

It’s worth commenting on Hebrews 10, which you emphasized. 10:16 says “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,” It also It also makes a very important clarification about the law and the covenant. The old covenant has been fulfilled by Jesus’ death and resurrection. It is complete. The old covenant has been abolished (and with it all the nit-picky legalisms) and the New Covenant has been established.

To fulfill the law appears at first to mean a literal enforcement of the law in the least detail: until heaven and earth pass away nothing of the law will pass. Yet the “passing away” of heaven and earth is not necessarily the end of the world understood, as in much apocalyptic literature, as the dissolution of the existing universe. The “turning of the ages” comes with the apocalyptic event of Jesus’ death and resurrection, and those to whom this gospel is addressed are living in the new and final age, prophesied by Isaiah as the time of “new heavens and a new earth”

Heb 10:7-10 Then I said, ‘Lo, I have come to do thy will, O God,’ as it is written of me in the roll of the book." When he said above, “Thou hast neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), then he added, “Lo, I have come to do thy will.” He abolishes the first [covenant] in order to establish the second [covenant]. And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Jesus’ New Covenant with His followers was not the old Ten Commandments, with legalisms and with merely passive avoidance of certain behavior. Jesus’ convenant with His followers is His new Two Commandments: Love God with your whole heart, soul, mind, and strength, Love your Neighbor as yourself. With these two commandments the legalisms and passivity of the OT law have been stripped away by Jesus resurrection, back down to God’s pure original intent. With the eliminition of the legalisms, we are now freed from limitations and called to Jesus’ higher standard. Love your neighbor requires that we stand up and take action.

Furthermore, Romans speaks specifically to the Gentile situation. The Gentiles are not called to obey the OT law and merely avoid certain behaviors. They are called to New Covenant and to take action.

Rom 2:13-16 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

 

[Protestant101]

There you go again…

Clinging to the standard set of proof texts and pat explanations…
Have you ever really looked at these verses:

Yet the Adventists want to tell us we worship on the wrong day of the week, are sinful if we eat pork, will be weak in our spiritual discernment if we eat animal foods and will in the end be lost if we do not give up our “Sunday keeping” churches and join their ‘remnant’.

Yet not one Adventist has agreed to step outside of their comfortable prooftexting to study Genesis in context with Patrick.

MarysRoses

I think you may also have quite an impressive set of “proof texts,” and “pat explanations” on display here too. Why is it “proof-texting” when a Protestant mentions the verse on this forum; yet when you, a Catholic mention it; it is “truth?”

This whole thread started because someone asked about Amazing Facts Bible study guides; and I have seen certain of the Catholics jump out of the woodwork to vigorously oppose many different Adventist doctrines; few of which you have stated accurately. It is hard to decide what this thread is now about

Lets try then to progress; but realize that as the purpose of this forum states; we are all here to compare and contrast. I don’t “proof-text” anymore than you do; I also am trying to just say what I believe and why. That is no different than you.

You summarily dismissed what I said about the old and new covenants with not a single bit of proof as to why what I said was wrong. Yes, you proof-texted me with a couple of Ratzlaff style scripture-twistings; yet you did not explain why the thoughts I had expressed about the Bible’s use of the word covenant is wrong.

A covenant is an agreement; it is an agreement about God’s law. Why would you deny that the covenant is not the law, but only an agreement about it? The word “covenant” means 'agreement" not “law.”

You accuse “Adventists” of not wanting to step out of their comfort zones, (that you invented) just because no one has stepped up to the plate to study with Patrick on whatever about Genesis. Why do you do this? That’s no proof of anything here!! This is an internet forum where many don’t have time to reply to everything posted. You makes us all out to be so conniving and cowardly just because we have not followed your agenda; which we never know for sure anyways, just because it is only over the internet.

Genesis is a wonderful volume, and as we know; it is often called a Book of beginnings. The Sabbath, as well as all the other days of the week are clearly outlined in Genesis. To wag the contentious finger of condemnation at Adventists just because the word “Sabbath” is not in Genesis; is just about like saying that because the word “Trinity” is not in the Bible; then it also cannot be true

Genesis says God rested on “the seventh day.” Later, in Exodus and Deut., the Bible tells us that the Sabbath is 'the seventh-day." How can there be any doubt here that Genesis was/is referring to the Sabbath?

 

[Protestant101]

Your signature picture looks great. But it is a little tiny. Seems to be the Earth as seen from space, sun rising over the horizon, doves superimposed above the atmosphere. Where did you get it?

Mt 5:18 read in context with 5:17 before it puts a slightly different slant on the passage:
17 "Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them. 18 For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.

My signature pic is as big as this forum allows; (I think) it is actually three angels flying over the Earth; as in Revelation, chapter 14, 6-12.

Can I ask you; what is your understanding of the Bible’s use of the word “fulfil” here in Mat.5:17-18? If you will note; I did already quote Mat.5:18 above in post #273.

 

[MarysRoses]

I think you may also have quite an impressive set of “proof texts,” and “pat explanations” on display here too. Why is it “proof-texting” when a Protestant mentions the verse on this forum; yet when you, a Catholic mention it; it is “truth?”

This whole thread started because someone asked about Amazing Facts Bible study guides; and I have seen certain of the Catholics jump out of the woodwork to vigorously oppose many different Adventist doctrines; few of which you have stated accurately. It is hard to decide what this thread is now about

Lets try then to progress; but realize that as the purpose of this forum states; we are all here to compare and contrast. I don’t “proof-text” anymore than you do; I also am trying to just say what I believe and why. That is no different than you.

I agree this thread has meandered far too much, yet we are responding to Adventist allegations, many of them very serious.

You summarily dismissed what I said about the old and new covenants with not a single bit of proof as to why what I said was wrong. Yes, you proof-texted me with a couple of Ratzlaff style scripture-twistings; yet you did not explain why the thoughts I had expressed about the Bible’s use of the word covenant is wrong.

Here’s why:

The ten commandments are described as the Covenant:

**Exodus 34:28-29

28And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

29And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses’ hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him. **

This is obviously what St. Paul was referring to in

**2 Corinthians 3:6-7:
6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

7But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:**

Call it covenant or call it law, you are upholding what St. Paul calls the “Ministration of death…”

A covenant is an agreement; it is an agreement about God’s law. Why would you deny that the covenant is not the law, but only an agreement about it? The word “covenant” means 'agreement" not “law.”

An agreement or contract has conditions and stipulations. The bible refers to the 10 commandments as the words of the COVENANT. When the agreement passes away, so do the stipulations.

You accuse “Adventists” of not wanting to step out of their comfort zones, (that you invented) just because no one has stepped up to the plate to study with Patrick on whatever about Genesis. Why do you do this? That’s no proof of anything here!! This is an internet forum where many don’t have time to reply to everything posted. You makes us all out to be so conniving and cowardly just because we have not followed your agenda; which we never know for sure anyways, just because it is only over the internet.

You come to a Catholic forum with accusations against the Catholic Church. It is natural we will respond to them. Your charges have been repeatedly answered, yet Adventists respond with the same material over and over again, yet some critical questions remain unanswered.

Where is the command to keep the sabbath before Moses gave the Law? Where is the command for Gentiles and Christians to observe the sabbath?

In the New Testament, the Law of Moses is everything in the first five books of the bible. The Penteteuch or Torah:

Luke 24:44: Jesus said: **This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.

** This is the classical Hebrew division of the OT, The Torah, the prophets and the psalms.

This is also important to understand because there is no biblical basis for distinguishing between “ceremonial” laws and other laws. It is all the “Law of Moses”.

Genesis is a wonderful volume, and as we know; it is often called a Book of beginnings. The Sabbath, as well as all the other days of the week are clearly outlined in Genesis.

The bible is very clear, we agree.

The first six days have an “evening and the morning”

What does it say about the seventh day?

**2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

4These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
**

If this is the institution of a weekly observance placed on men to keep…

Where is the evening and the morning to show that this is a 24 hour day?

When did God resume his work, establishing this as a cycle that would come weekly?

Most importantly, Where in this passage did God command others to keep a sabbath? Where are the examples of men keeping this sabbath before Moses?

To wag the contentious finger of condemnation at Adventists just because the word “Sabbath” is not in Genesis; is just about like saying that because the word “Trinity” is not in the Bible; then it also cannot be true

What Catholic denies the Trinity? This is a slippery claim, it is not Catholics who insist as you do BIBLE ONLY.

Genesis says God rested on “the seventh day.” Later, in Exodus and Deut., the Bible tells us that the Sabbath is 'the seventh-day." How can there be any doubt here that Genesis was/is referring to the Sabbath?

What does Moses say about the sabbath?

Who was it given to? All men?

Exodus 31:12-17
"And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for IT IS A SIGN BETWEEN ME AND YOU throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you. Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their genera*tions, for a perpetual covenant. IT IS A SIGN BETWEEN ME AND THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL FOR EVER: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed."

This passage puts to rest more than one Adventist claim.

The sabbath is given to ISRAEL. Not to all men.

Note that it uses the PLURAL “sabbaths” yet goes on to specify the seventh day AND creation… So much for the Adventist argument that St. Paul is only refering to “ceremonial” sabbaths because he uses the plural form when he cautions us against judging each other over the matter of a sabbath.

This applies to the entire 10 commandments, and all of the Law…

Exodus 20:2.

**I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. **

This is being given to a specific people who experienced a specific event.

Ezek. 20:12.
Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord that sanctify them.

What did St. Paul say about these sabbath?

Collosians 2:14-17

1**4Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

15And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.**

(cont. next post)

 

[MarysRoses]

(cont. from previous post)

So… the sabbath was given to Israel.

WHEN was the sabbath given? Creation?

The first mention in the bible is this:

Hebrews 16:23
23And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.

The hebrews had no idea about the sabbath, they tried to gather bread on the 7th day anyway…

**29See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.
**

It is interesting that the giving of the manna and the giving of the sabbath are at the same time. This is why they were to REMEMBER the sabbath… not from creation… but from the manna which fell six days.

I know you will argue with my interpretation, but the prophet Nehemiah would seem to agree with me:

Neh. 9:13-14.
Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments; and MADEST KNOWN UNTO THEM THY HOLY SABBATH, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant.

It doesn’t seem that the sabbath was known before Exodus. According to the BIBLE.

My list of unanswered questions for Adventists:

Where in Genesis are we commanded to keep the sabbath?
Where in the New Testament are Christians commanded to keep the sabbath?
What is the biblical method for identifying “Saturday” (since Adventists allow for no exceptions) in all times and all places where men live?

The letter of the law brings only death…

The spirit gives life.

How do you enter into the divine rest? Under the old covenant… God gave them a finite day to enter into this divine reality. Under the new… We have God Himself in the person of His divine Son, Jesus.
The Jews failed to enter into this divine, HOLY beyond human conception, rest that was hidden in the shadow of a day…
Christians have Jesus, who is all Holy and we find our rest in Him.
Again, fulfilling the shadow.

Adventists make the mistake of taking something infinitely Holy and beyond human understanding, and trying to tie it to something very limited… a particular day of the week.

God Bless,
MarysRoses

 

[Deconi]

…and what happened to ‘the sabbath day’ when Gregory **changed the calender ** to what the whole world now lives by?

He erased about 15days from existence!!

Was Gregory, God too?