Amazing Grace innapropriate for Church?

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Julia_Mae said:
I wonder why? Jesus did come to save us and the guy who wrote it was a wretch, in his own mind, consumed with guilt and deserving of hell. Which is why he thought God’s Grace so amazing. I agree with him.
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I think the idea is that it hews too closely to Luther’s understanding of the soul. I haven’t read up on Lutheran theology in awhile, so I don’t recall the terminology, but I think Luther compared himself to a pile of manure, and God’s grace to snow that covers that true nature. The Catholic understanding, in contrast, is that we are all created good, but unfortunately stained by original sin.

For a long time I saw it written in Catholic hymnals as “who saved and set me free,” but in the last couple years I’ve again seen the original lyrics.
 
cessnawag said:
It has something to do with the lyric- “saved” a wrech like me. We have sung it in our church and the word is changed to something else (with I can’t remember what)
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I would be very interested to find out what it was changed to. The Church certainly teaches that we are in fact ultimately saved through Grace and not through any efforts of our own, to hold otherwise is to hold the Pelagian heresy that St. Augustine argued against extensively. So I see nothing wrong with saying that it is Grace that saves us.
 
I always thought it was kind of ironic that Amazing Grace is a Protestant song and it says “that saved a wretch like me”, but then when you talk to a lot of them they say it’s “faith that saves you, not works like them Catholic teach.”

I see nothing wrong with singing it in a Catholic Church.
 
cessnawag said:
It has something to do with the lyric- “saved” a wrech like me. We have sung it in our church and the word is changed to something else (with I can’t remember what)
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Why is that objectionable? It is a teaching of the Church that we are not saved through our own merit but rather through the Grace of God.
 
Besides St. Ambrose calling us a “wretched sinner” here is another from my St. Joseph Daily Missal:

Prayer to the Saint in whose honor the Mass is to be celebrated

O Holy N., behold** I, a wretched sinner**, relying on your merits, now offer up to your honor and glory the most holy Sacrament of the Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. Humbly and devoutly do I beg you to intercede for me this day, and to plead that I may have grace to offer this great Sacrifice in a worthy and acceptable fashion and to be able to sing His praises eternally with you and with all His elect in heaven. Who lives and reigns, world without end. Amen
 
Michael Voris from RealCatholicTV explained how some of the words were heretical.
 
Although it’s not a particular favourite of mine - I am not particulary fond of the tune which normally acompanies it - I can’t see anything theologically wrong with it. I think there might be some people who might interpret some of the lyrics as a sort of “justification by faith”, but I don’t think that is the intent of the writer, and it certainly is not anti-catholic in any way.
 
Imitation of Christ by Thomas A Kempis
How long will my Lord delay in coming?
Let Him come to me, His poor servant, and make me happy. Let Him stretch forth His hand, and save a wretch from all affliction.

This is why it is silly to not sing Amazing Grace.
 
cessnawag said:
It has something to do with the lyric- “saved” a wrech like me. We have sung it in our church and the word is changed to something else (with I can’t remember what)
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I think it is because some protestants say once your saved you can’t be unsaved. Whereas catholics say it depends on the state of your soul at dead.
 
cessnawag said:
It has something to do with the lyric- “saved” a wrech like me. We have sung it in our church and the word is changed to something else (with I can’t remember what)
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I think it’s because protestants say once your saved you cant be unsaved. Whereas catholics say it depends on the state of your soul at dead.
 
And, come to think of it, when I returned to the Church, after my first confession in years, that song played in the church’s bell tower.
 
cessnawag said:
It has something to do with the lyric- “saved” a wrech like me. We have sung it in our church and the word is changed to something else (with I can’t remember what)
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“Saved and set me free” is the alternate line.

It doesn’t really change the meaning, just makes it easier for those who don’t like to say “wretch” and more difficult for those who have the original lyrics stuck in their heads.

On the subject of “appropriateness”, any song that faithfully represents Scripture or is compatible with Catholic theology can be appropriate.
 
Julia_Mae said:
I wonder why? Jesus did come to save us and the guy who wrote it was a wretch, in his own mind, consumed with guilt and deserving of hell. Which is why he thought God’s Grace so amazing. I agree with him.
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Yes, but it is more in line with the Calvinistic concept of Total Damnation, vs the Catholic understanding of the intrinsic goodness of humanity ( Created in the image and likeness of God).

I’m not saying that the lyrics are wrong when properly understood, Newton was an Anglican, so his understanding of sin is probably closer to our own than a Calvanisitic interpretation. But even so, we can probably all agree that fully Catholic theology clearly stated are better in a hymn.
 
Marysann said:
This question has been asked before in this forum.
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An interesting point here is that this was actually one of the first threads here,back in 2004 and Karl Keating even weighed in. I guess he had time to play with the new toy back then. For me, the song is beloved at my parish, sang with gusto, and it does not present any problematic issue theologically. I can see where the lyrics might be misleading in a parish where a strong sacramental theology is not taught.

I use the song in Mass several times a year.
 
Michael Voris form RealCatholicTV explained how some of the words are heretical.
 
JacarandaPurple said:
Because people are stupid…sorry, that’s really all I’ve got. :doh2:

I mean, honestly, considering the heretical OCP tripe in our hymnals, THIS is what people get upset about?!
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I’m not particularly fond of much that is in the OCP hymnal and would like to see my parish using something else, but what? Which are the heretical songs in the hymnal? What is the best Catholic hymnal out there now that corresponds to the changing messages of the Sunday readings and the changing celebrations of various holy days?
 
cessnawag said:
It has something to do with the lyric- “saved” a wrech like me. We have sung it in our church and the word is changed to something else (with I can’t remember what)
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I’ve heard singers, such as Paul Robeson, change the lyric to “saved a soul like me.” Regardless, probably not appropriate for the synagogue.
 
cessnawag said:
It has something to do with the lyric- “saved” a wrech like me. We have sung it in our church and the word is changed to something else (with I can’t remember what)
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I think it’s been changed to “saved and set me free”

People don’t like to think of themselves as wretches any more.
 
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