Amazon.com Contributes to Sexual Exploitation

[JimG]

Really? I didn’t get that memo… and I’ve been working there for 18 years…

My wife worked at Walmart for several years and liked the job.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

My wife worked at Walmart for several years and liked the job.

The federal government even filed charges against them for mistreatment of employees. See above. I guess your wife was lucky.

 

[bluerose]

My wife worked at Walmart for several years and liked the job.

Yeah, it’s not perfect (what job is?) but it’s better than most other jobs around here… and I’ve never once been asked to go against my principles and my raises, bonuses, and PTO are more than adequate. I make more than my husband does and he’s an electrician (and I’m a cake decorator!)

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Thank you for your charitable reply. I think this is perhaps the point where we part ways in our opinion and as you stated it is an individual’s duty to follow their own well-formed conscience.

Amazon sells none of life’s necessities. I won’t be in jeopardy of any sort, only a bit more “uncomfortable” in not having recourse to their services. For me, the point of no return is the fact that they host pornographic websites, i.e. they sell their infrastructure to pornographers so they can spread their filth.

Amazon sells necessities like soap, toothbrushes, deodorant, etc., but you certainly don’t have to buy them there.

I feel it’s your right to buy wherever you want, and I respect that. I don’t agree with Amazon’s decision to sell pornography, I just feel more offended by all the sexual filth on TV.

 

[KevinAK]

The federal government even filed charges against them for mistreatment of employees. See above. I guess your wife was lucky.

The Federal Government filing charges proves nothing to me. Sounds like their persecuting Walmart because they aren’t union.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

The Federal Government filing charges proves nothing to me. Sounds like their persecuting Walmart because they aren’t union.

I know. I feel the same about Hillary Clinton even though I’m a Sanders supporter. The right wing trots out email “stories” around every election just to persecute her.

The majority of Walmart employees want to be union, but Walmart uses “scare tactics” to prevent them from unionizing. And that’s not the only reason they were named one of the worst employers in the United States.

Catholics really shouldn’t shop there.

 

[edwest2]

I can easily avoid the porn on Amazon, though, and I can’t on TV shows. TV forces it on you if you watch certain shows, especially comedy shows.

I’m aligning my life toward the eternal by avoiding the filth on Amazon and elsewhere and not watching it on TV. Some people may find filth funny, but I don’t. I heard them call unmarried sex on “Friends” “getting lucky.” A whole episode of “Seinfeld” was devoted to the contraceptive sponge that was taken off the market. No. I’ll watch the clean stuff.

TV has become a habit for some and hard to break. I watch very little TV. Most of the filth is just that, filth. Comedians are filthy and propaganda pushers. I watch to see how bad things are getting and to alert everyone here. I watched one episode of “Mom” and it is the worst combination of sexual references and dysfunctional living I’ve seen to date. I can’t imagine why the actors involved would allow themselves to be so degraded by portraying such bad characters.

Just turn it off. I’ve stopped watching “The News” because it’s junk. Seinfeld is about narcissistic, dysfunctional and bad people who are pretending to be human beings, with a touch of psychosis. And sex? Like using a toilet.

Ugh.

Amazon, well, this should not be a surprise but it is. In this current “no guilt, no shame, no sin” climate that is being promoted heavily, Amazon cannot be supported in those areas that are mentioned. Never.

Ed

 

[andrewstx]

I have bought books, used electronic media and things like Balsamic vinegar from Amazon for years.

Never have I noticed pornography on Amazon, not once. I think people have to search out this junk to find it.

 

[mikekle]

True, Amazon may do good things as well but that doesn’t somehow negate the fact that they sell sexually explicit material and (if you read the link) actually host pornographic websites through their web hosting service.

.

Yes, but they do not care about what they are selling, as long as it brings in money and increases profit, they could not care less about the morality of it…oh but when it comes to Christmas, I bet they recognize and ‘celebrate’ that Christian holiday…but again, they may put up christmasy designs on their website, christmas trees in their offices, nice generic christmas slogans (happy holidays, etc), but in reality, they really only care about the money coming in from it.

 

[BonzaiRocker]

Amazon.com has been named by the National Center on Sexual Exploitation as one of the “Dirty Dozen” of businesses most contributing to sexual exploitation in its annual list:

endsexualexploitation.org/amazon/

This is a tough pill to swallow as my family and I buy things from Amazon frequently and use its streaming service in lieu of TV/Netflix/etc. Still, we’ve spent our last dollar there and I’ve deleted my Amazon Prime account with them. Unfortunate as we’d just paid the annual Prime fee too. I’d encourage you all to do the same and contact Amazon letting them know their practices are unacceptable.

Dear Dan so please tell me when your no longer having a cable bill, you don’t have any device that can connect to the internet, you are boycotting any place that sells sports magazines, and you do know Walmart sells dildo’s, vibrators and movies with porn in them right?

 

[Dan_86]

Ok, I’ll bite.

Dear Dan so please tell me when your no longer having a cable bill

I don’t have a cable bill, easy enough.

you don’t have any device that can connect to the internet,

I fail to see how this is relevant? A device accessing the internet is morally neutral and becomes evil only when used to access evil. That would be like saying, “Alright Dan, you don’t drive on roads do you? Because some of them lead to strip clubs.” The issue of providers of internet content is an entirely separate matter. This is the case at hand here with Amazon.

you are boycotting any place that sells sports magazines,

Are you implying that hardcore pornography is equivalent to a swimsuit magazine? And that therefore the proper moral response to both is the same in an otherwise equivalent situation? I happen to think that it is not.

and you do know Walmart sells dildo’s, vibrators and movies with porn in them right?

Again, I don’t shop at Walmart. It’s quite easy to avoid shopping at a business really. Although even if I did, your implication that I would be holding to a double standard is again off base. Do you honestly believe a movie with nudity in it or a masturbatory device is as equally morally objectionable to hardcore pornography? To movies and books with themes of incest and child porn?

The responses to this thread are getting quite dull in their vehement denunciation of taking a position against Amazon. If you feel a need to respond with derision and spite against me for taking this stance, perhaps you’re the one with insecurities about the issue that you should examine. I’m quite comfortable with my position.

 

[bluerose]

I keep seeing the same message: Catholics shouldn’t patronize businesses that “promote” (however you want to define this) immorality.

Which Catholics are you talking about?

All Catholics? Just the ones who adhere strictly to Church teaching in regards to sexual matters? Or the ones who believe that using artificial birth control is fine, that gay marriage shouldn’t be forbidden, that divorce and remarriage without the benefit of a decree of nullity shouldn’t bar you from the sacraments, etc.

I think our energies are better spent focusing on finding ways to fix the real problem rather than on calling for boycotts that do little more than make the ones actually boycotting feel better.

 

[Dan_86]

Bluerose, I’m not talking about Catholics. Everyone should avoid contributing to immorality, it doesn’t take Catholic theology to know what is right and wrong. We can get it mostly right through the natural law and anyone being honest with themselves knows that this kind of sexual exploitation is wrong.

Now let me as YOU a question. Just what energy are you referencing that is being wastefully focused by not giving Amazon our business? Is this really that difficult a task that takes a person away from doing other good work?

I think the “real problem” that you referenced is that people convince themselves that enough is enough when it comes to following Jesus and that we shouldn’t let him influence certain aspects of our life.

I’d challenge you to consider why you believe this just isn’t a cause worth taking up. The devil loves to trick us into thinking our contributions are insignificant and won’t really matter, but in reality we can only control what WE do and the rest has to be left up to You-Know-Who.

 

[bluerose]

Because until you can successfully convince people–Catholic or not, business owner or consumer–that what they are selling is evil, bad, wrong, sinful, etc. then your efforts to eradicate the said evil from the sales shelves are not going to succeed. Many people have convinced themselves that moral evils are a “right” to them (abortion, gay marriage, immoral sexual practices) and anyone who is trying to make those things go away are their enemy and infringing on their rights.

I’ve worked in retail for almost twenty years. Here’s how stuff gets pulled from the shelves–it doesn’t sell. Boycotts have actually increased sales for some items (depending on who’s doing the boycotting) but if an item isn’t making money, the seller isn’t going to waste money or shelf space stocking the item.

Change people’s hearts, help them to learn what is good and right, and when they realize it, they will keep their wallets closed when confronted with what is evil and wrong. Items gathering dust on the shelves will be removed and retailers will think twice about trying to carry such items. Public protests from a few won’t change retailers’ minds, not when money speaks louder. It’s like teaching a dog a trick: reward good behavior, withhold a reward for bad behavior.

Think about it. How easy was it to purchase sex-themed books, magazine, other items, etc. fifty years ago? Even twenty years ago? It’s always been available for sale, but people had to look for them and in very shady places and it was kept in the dark. Now, it’s grown to be an acceptable “niche” in retail and you can find it without even looking for it. Why did that change? Because people’s perceptions of what is acceptable changed. If people were to be taught what is wrong, why it’s wrong, and how much damage it can cause them and others–and just saying “no, you can’t have it 'cause I said so” doesn’t work–then there will be far more success.

Also, I wasn’t addressing you specifically. It was said that Catholics shouldn’t shop there (meaning Walmart, I think, which pretty much means I’m in the doghouse for working there). And apparently it doesn’t matter than amazon (and Walmart) carry a large number of Bibles and Christian-themed books, both fiction and non-fiction. It almost looks as if we consider the good as being outweighed by the bad. Amazon, Walmart, etc. really don’t care about good vs. bad. It’s about the almighty dollar. Even if they did a complete turnaround and sold nothing BUT good, Christian-themed books and movies, they’re still doing it for the money.

Take up whatever cause you want. But if you want support, enough to make a difference, you have to teach people what the truth is about human sexuality, immorality, and why it’s important to avoid exploiting it for money and selfish pleasure. It’s an uphill battle, to be sure, in this day and age, but we should all be on the same side.

 

[Dan_86]

Because until you can successfully convince people–Catholic or not, business owner or consumer–that what they are selling is evil, bad, wrong, sinful, etc. then your efforts to eradicate the said evil from the sales shelves are not going to succeed. Many people have convinced themselves that moral evils are a “right” to them (abortion, gay marriage, immoral sexual practices) and anyone who is trying to make those things go away are their enemy and infringing on their rights.

I’ve worked in retail for almost twenty years. Here’s how stuff gets pulled from the shelves–it doesn’t sell. Boycotts have actually increased sales for some items (depending on who’s doing the boycotting) but if an item isn’t making money, the seller isn’t going to waste money or shelf space stocking the item.

Change people’s hearts, help them to learn what is good and right, and when they realize it, they will keep their wallets closed when confronted with what is evil and wrong. Items gathering dust on the shelves will be removed and retailers will think twice about trying to carry such items. Public protests from a few won’t change retailers’ minds, not when money speaks louder. It’s like teaching a dog a trick: reward good behavior, withhold a reward for bad behavior.

Think about it. How easy was it to purchase sex-themed books, magazine, other items, etc. fifty years ago? Even twenty years ago? It’s always been available for sale, but people had to look for them and in very shady places and it was kept in the dark. Now, it’s grown to be an acceptable “niche” in retail and you can find it without even looking for it. Why did that change? Because people’s perceptions of what is acceptable changed. If people were to be taught what is wrong, why it’s wrong, and how much damage it can cause them and others–and just saying “no, you can’t have it 'cause I said so” doesn’t work–then there will be far more success.

Also, I wasn’t addressing you specifically. It was said that Catholics shouldn’t shop there (meaning Walmart, I think, which pretty much means I’m in the doghouse for working there). And apparently it doesn’t matter than amazon (and Walmart) carry a large number of Bibles and Christian-themed books, both fiction and non-fiction. It almost looks as if we consider the good as being outweighed by the bad. Amazon, Walmart, etc. really don’t care about good vs. bad. It’s about the almighty dollar. Even if they did a complete turnaround and sold nothing BUT good, Christian-themed books and movies, they’re still doing it for the money.

Take up whatever cause you want. But if you want support, enough to make a difference, you have to teach people what the truth is about human sexuality, immorality, and why it’s important to avoid exploiting it for money and selfish pleasure. It’s an uphill battle, to be sure, in this day and age, but we should all be on the same side.

Hi bluerose, thanks for your reply. I think I understand where you are coming from better now. I appreciate your pragmatism in regards to how you addressed the need to actually change people’s opinions, not just force blind action. I agree with you that these businesses are ultimately just following the market when they sell these items.

I guess what troubles me is the fact that I would not expect this setting (a Catholic website) to be the place where instruction is needed about what is morally licit and what’s not. To me, it is a very clear cut issue. I think some people (in general) don’t want to be troubled with it because it’s inconvenient and they don’t believe things will really change.

Note the bolded sections of your post above. No matter how well you inform someone, you can’t expect them to do something that you’re not doing yourselves. Example can be a powerful teaching tool in itself. I do believe that whatever one does (or fails to do) DOES make a difference. Large or small, it doesn’t matter since God will hold us accountable for what we have done for others, not who we’ve been able to convince or what polices we’ve changed. If we think we’re in control anyways we’ve already been duped. I think a defeatist attitude by Christians is part of the reason things have changed so much in the past fifty years on this issue.

So please help me inform people and give them the truth when spreading this message! Also, I think there’s no moral problem in working for Walmart, but that topic probably deserves a different thread of its own.

 

[bluerose]

Thank you, Dan. I think sometimes the best approach is one-on-one with a ripple effect, if you will. Let me give you one example that I have personally done:

A few years ago, one of my co-workers was having a “passion party” and inviting several other women from work, including myself. I declined and she, knowing me well enough, was expecting that and asked no questions. The other women, however, were titillated and talked about it all the time. I began talking to each one, individually, about what they expected to gain from attending this party and buying the products. Many admitted it was purely “for the fun of it” while some stated that it was “to improve their relationships”. So I asked HOW they expected these to help, what did it say about a relationship that needed THIS kind of help, what they ultimately wanted from their relationships, etc. It opened up some revealing dialogue about these women’s perceptions of sex and relationships. I never once came right out and said, don’t do this. I tried to make them think and come to the right answer on their own and many of them realized this wasn’t something they really wanted to do. That it was, in fact, wrong, even if they didn’t want to admit it.

Half of them decided not to attend the party. Of the others who did attend, only one or two bought anything (I think they admitted they liked the perfume) and the party ended up being a bust. The “consultant” didn’t make much money and didn’t get any other party bookings (which results in prizes for the hostess and more money-making opportunities for the consultant.) I later heard she left that company and became a consultant for cookware or wax burners or something like that.

Not an earth-shattering “victory”, if you want to call it that, but it made a difference to a few women and I hope it trickles down to their other friends and family members… and their own daughters and sons. I have many friends who know my stand on moral issues, but I don’t beat them over the heads with “this is right, that is wrong”, I just share what I have learned. That’s what works for me.

And right now, as an author, my battles are mainly centered around current popular “literature” and movies–yeah, THAT book and movie–and trying to help my friends and co-workers understand why true love and romance DON’T come in fifty shades!

Pray for me and I’ll pray for you!

 

[Dan_86]

Thank you for that example blurerose. I think there is a time for direct, blatant stating of the message (think Bishops reaffirming Catholic doctrine), but hearts change when people see the message lived out in their neighbors and are coached through the “why” as you described.

I hope anyone who sees my original post takes the “raw information” and is inspired to act on it. Should they disagree with me on what that response should be, well that’s why we have a forum I guess and I hope I’ve made my “why” clear.

God bless, and prayers headed your way!

 

[Kay_Cee]

I have to agree with bluerose about this. Changing minds and hearts is the way to go.

Only once have I participated in a boycott that was successful. Years ago, one of our local fast food restaurant chains aired a series of commercials featuring Hugh Hefner–surrounded by scantily clad women–as the spokesperson. Even worse, the ads contained a thinly veiled message that having multiple sex partners was a good thing. I called the company and told them I would not patronize a business that had a pornographer as its spokesman. That, after all, was essentially saying pornography and the exploitation of women was what their business was all about.

(This company had been founded by a wonderful Catholic man who regularly contributed greatly to the Catholic school where I taught. Unfortunately, after his death the company went public. And such commercials were the result.)

I must not have been the only one who was disgusted because soon the commercials were yanked and the older, non-offensive ones were aired in their place.

As for Amazon, I recently picked up about 17 Catholic books absolutely free on my Kindle. I authored three Christian novels that are available on Amazon Kindle as well. (And dare I mention that bluerose’s books, also available there, are terrific?)

I can’t begin to tell you how much closer I am to God because of the many wonderful books I’ve purchased–or gotten absolutely free–from Amazon.

If pornography and the exploitation of women was what Amazon was all about, I would boycott it too. I’m afraid, though, that just about everywhere you look, you’re going to find weeds among the wheat (Matthew 13:24-30).

 

[Dan_86]

Hi Kay Cee, and welcome. I think we all agree with bluerose about hearts and minds needing to be changed. My point is that doesn’t do any good if we all just think the same then and don’t act on it. Ultimately, there has to be action and the only person’s actions we can control are ours.

I think it’s great that you’ve found Catholic literature on Amazon and that authors post good content as well. God has a remarkable way of taking everything that exists and putting it towards our best interest (ROM 8:28), even sin.

I also think that withdrawing from the world and trying to isolate ourselves from evil around us (i.e. the so called “benedict option”) is not the call of the Christian. We are to be salt for the earth. But this is not about being in proximity to evil, it’s about indirect participation of/support for evil.

People bought things before Amazon. There are plenty of fine Catholic publishers where one can find the same titles. To me, the question really boils down to “What am I willing to give up (ease, convenience, money, etc.) in order to follow Christ to the best of my ability?” He told us it wouldn’t be easy (Matt 7:13-14). We don’t just answer His call when we think the odds favor a good outcome or that our actions will have great meaning. Perhaps aligning ourselves to His will has the greatest effect of all, on us.

What do you think?

 

[edwest2]

Bluerose, I’m not talking about Catholics. Everyone should avoid contributing to immorality, it doesn’t take Catholic theology to know what is right and wrong. We can get it mostly right through the natural law and anyone being honest with themselves knows that this kind of sexual exploitation is wrong.

Now let me as YOU a question. Just what energy are you referencing that is being wastefully focused by not giving Amazon our business? Is this really that difficult a task that takes a person away from doing other good work?

I think the “real problem” that you referenced is that people convince themselves that enough is enough when it comes to following Jesus and that we shouldn’t let him influence certain aspects of our life.

I’d challenge you to consider why you believe this just isn’t a cause worth taking up. The devil loves to trick us into thinking our contributions are insignificant and won’t really matter, but in reality we can only control what WE do and the rest has to be left up to You-Know-Who.

That’s right. It took me a while to realize that I’m part of the problem if I don’t at least say something. Yes, different stores sell different things, but the hypersexualization of society continues and when I stop caring and others stop caring, it can become a problem. We are to encourage amazon to stop carrying certain items and not allowing their services to be used to further spread immorality. No, I don’t go to amazon looking for anything immoral but I understand how corporations work. If I’m in charge of market research and no one complains, I can tell my boss when he asks, “Nope. No one complained.”

For example, One Million Moms has been effective in monitoring TV content, including the ads. The world of advertising has changed. Some agencies just get the facts, find the target demographic and start placing ads for their client, who may be totally unaware of the kind of TV shows he’s supporting. As long as sales are up and the agency can show a reasonable link between what they do and sales, all is considered OK. But the group I mentioned has been successful in contacting advertisers and having them drop their ads from this or that TV show.

No person, or company, is perfect, but if it’s “keep your complaints away from me or my corporation,” then people forget what values, reputation and personal and corporate responsibility mean. We live in a global community, but for us English speakers (at least), our voices should be heard. Our reasonable objections should be heard.

If we become indifferent then we are neither hot or cold. At least communicate your thoughts to whoever has decided to add immoral products to their inventory. Or immoral services.

I, for one, will not stop pointing out the degrading stuff I see on TV. And remember: the goal is - no sin, no shame, no guilt. Which leads to more skin on TV, more profanity and other bad role models being played by actors who don’t seem to care.

For example: I want my heroes to be heroic and not morally ambiguous.

Ed