Amazon Synod and feeling alienated by Pope Francis

[Roland_Deschain]

The news surrounding the Amazon Synod has me thinking that the prodigal son’s older brother had a point.

Cardinal Burke, Bishop Schneider, and a whole host of other faithful churchmen and theologians are raising alarm that this will promote and encourage religious relativism and syncretism.

I have endured and even defended Pope Francis from his critics in the past. But this is too far. But the defenses of him are always the same: saying he was quoted “out of context”, the “indirect approach”, or claiming that his theology is some 2smart4u 4D Chess game.

Coupled with his tacit approval of bishops like Cardinals Marx and Kasper and his recent snideness towards American Catholics, I’m starting to feel extremely unwanted and not welcome in the Church I have given years of love, obedience, and service to. Again, I know that makes me sound like the older son. But unlike him, I’m not looking for approval or reward from Holy Mother Church.

I have no intention of leaving the Church, but all the signs I can see point to the Church leaving me. Why should I even bother trying to be a good disciple of Christ if His own shepherds, who claim moral and spiritual authority over me, endorse the opposite?

I know “The Gates of Hell will not prevail” and all that, but with every theologian worth his salt sounding the alarm and going so far as to call the Amazon Synod “apostasy”, are we not witnessing exactly that?

 

[godisgood77]

And this is precisely what I mean when I don’t find defense of Pope Francis convincing. It’s always the same routine:

1. Just trust him
2. He’s smarter than you/playing 4d chess
3. “Out of context”
4. Why are you sowing division?

It’s a good thing I wasn’t suggesting or implying any of these 4 things…

I asked the question about what the poster found troubling, because I’ve found that non-doctrinal things like the ordination of married men, ordination of deaconesses tend to be primary objections… However, these things are not heretical or corrupt in anyway… they are practices the Latin Church has previously embraced and wouldn’t jeopardize apostolic succession or infallibility in any way… as many falsely claim.

On the fear of syncretism and pantheism… I personally think those fears are overblown, but I acknowledge them as legitimate concerns that should be discussed at the Synod… that is what the Synod is for afterall… in this case discussing the best way for the Church to bring the gospel to the far reaches of the amazon is the topic…

 

[Donkey]

It seems only fair that someone someone should validate your feelings. I understand where you’re coming from the only resolve that I have in this whole matter is that we only have one life to live each one of us and it is relatively short …maybe 70-80 years. No matter where I am …I figured this is where God wants us. I hope this helps. Always in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

I was recalling today how dirty the sheep in pews are these days…I mean…if I am going to point my finger at clergy …notice 3 more point back at me. Really, there is some seriously bad funky stink from the pews these days. Discussion of that would require a different thread.

I guess I need to add some more.

The word ‘aliented’ in this thread topic reminded me of something. Years ago when Catholic Answers/forum was just starting out there was another Catholic Forum. Back in those days there was a relatively small population of people with personal computers and connection to the internet. I can’t for the life of me recall the name of the website but its purpose was specifically to reattract Catholics that were feeling alienated from the Church. There were various subcatagories under that one topic…alienation from Church. I just looked around and can no longer find that website. I’m sure it is long gone.

Look how far back Catholic Answers goes…and see then how far back Catholics have pubicly vocalized feelings of alienation within their own parishes and Church.

Feelings of alienation are never good but especially within a parish under the dominance of nasty secretary, clique parishioners or cold hearted clergy….I know.

My point….

If you are just feeling alienated…bless you. Many others have felt this way long before today. I believe a good many saints were cast offs….thinking most recently…Saint Padre Pio…

The transition is quick here.

So maybe…sometimes…the trial/cross of feeling alienated is a blessing? Do you see what I am saying?

Apostasy or not.

 

[I_trust]

I have been thinking that the evil one is now being allowed to sift the obedient orthodox (with a lower case o) Catholics.

Their faith is being tested.

It was a bit too comfortable to be led by Pope Benedict.

If we are to follow Christ we must carry our cross.

Think of all the saints who had to remain obedient to superiors who laid heavy crosses upon them. It helped form them into saints.

If we remain faithful and do not abandon HIS church we are being blessed by our cross.

 

[abucs]

I think part of the concern is that there are attempts to change Church practice is an underhanded way by using the Amazon as a way to push Theological concepts that really have little to do with the Amazon and put ideological reformers to the forefront of this synod.

Like many secular changes in recent decades, there is concern that people are being maneuvered and strong armed into positions that they either disagree with, or have not been properly informed on in order for honest reflection.

We can see the divisiveness and disillusionment in secular bodies who have gone down what is an elitist authoritarian approach to ruling. Examples include British anti-Brexit and American impeachment compulsions. Deep State actors in collusion with the Left wing parties and mass media support is tearing society apart.

There are fears we are following down the same path. We also should be smart enough to see this and Godly enough to resist it.

There are real concerns that the Church at the moment might be lacking in sufficient quantities of both these qualities.

Even if these concerns are misplaced, the lack of them being addressed by the Vatican in an open, confident and loving manner is a clear problem and feeds back into the concern.

 

[Donkey]

I would like to repeat what the Doctrine of the Church says about this: When we acknowledge international organizations and we recognize their capacity to give judgment, on a global scale – for example, the international tribunal in The Hague, or the United Nations. If we consider ourselves humanity, when they make statements, our duty is to obey. It is true that not all things that appear just for the whole of humanity will also be so for our pockets, but we must obey international institutions. That is why the United Nations was created. That’s why international courts were created. ~Pope Francis~
Full Text of Pope Francis' In-Flight Press Conference Returning from Africa - ZENIT - English

At the same time, this 9/11/19 quote sets off alarm bells in me.
There is a clear polarization at all levels on a global scale. I can only go back to my own resolve in this matter. For many, a burden or trial of Faith is in the middle of all this. Preparing to walk the Scala Sancta on my knees ( or on my belly)…praying I have the strength.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Cathoholic]

Roland_Deschain . . . .

I have no intention of leaving the Church, but all the signs I can see point to the Church leaving me.

If you feel this way Roland_Deschain, hang in there.

The Church will sort out everything in due time.

Don’t over-attribute or under-attribute the statements from what those in authority say.

They are people too and everything they say is not going to be infallible.

The Church is indefectible.

I imagine many of the people were saying or thinking even more extreme things than what you can read out there back in the days of the Arian heresy.

Stay close to the Sacraments, and pray like never before.

Hang in there and STAY in The Church that Jesus founded (The Church isn’t going anywhere in the sense of off the rails–lay people and clerics do, but the Church per se will never stray).

I will pray for you.

God bless.

Cathoholic

 

[jack63]

The thing is that literally everybody empathizes with the prodigal son’s older brother. Everybody empathizes with the older brother! I am inspired by Pope Francis, and I am happy with almost everything he has done and is doing. For me, Pope Francis is the Father in the story that finally says “all that is mine is yours”, and he means it.

From my point of view I identify most strongly with the Irish in Ireland and the United States. Abuse by clergy has devastated the faith of people in Ireland. I’ve had family members personally describe to me abuse by clergy. At the same time they’re finding the bodies of children buried by the Catholic-based system in Ireland (i.e. Tuam in Galway). I see only a broken system. I see Pope Francis making a radical effort to fix it. Finally!