Couldn’t agree more. I just wish there were a few traditional churches around; I’ve lived in Milwaukee, Minneapolis and now Cincinnati, and ‘traditional’ parishes are thin on the ground. Everyone seems terribly averse to saying the black, doing the red, and singing music written before 1970.
That is a very fair question. At the OF Mass when people are using the orans or holding hands or walking past the tabernacle without so much as a wave, I can literally close my eyes to such things. Other things (like spewing out prayers during silent parts of the Mass) are far more difficult and may require some to look for another parish.I am not proud of the fact that these things I mentioned bother me. At all.
However, I am a bit confused with your comment, which seems to chastise me for letting these issues “drive me batty” yet you add at the end that attending the closest EF Mass is “an extremely depressing prospect” because of “some of the people who attend it.”
There is no easy “fix” to this. Okay, so you find people leaving the Church to attend mega Churches. But how sustainable are those? Look at the TV evangelists, for example. They once drew well but many are falling at the seams and going bankrupt. The Crystal Cathedral, for example.
Good. In some cases they aren’t even minor, they are approved or fully licit options.
I agree, the chatter is especially nasty because it’s very difficult to block-out. There are ways to deal with it though. One is intense concentration. Have you ever read something that was gripping in a very loud/noisy environment and your mind just shut everything else out? I try to do that (it takes practice and prayer) and it works most of the time. Often though I’ll just be more mechanical about it. When I arrive for Mass I have a small knapsack with my Daily Roman Missal, a volume of the LOTH and my iPod. Either I’ll put-on my iPod and listen to some great music (from Gregorian Chant to Gospel) while going through the readings or I will leave my knapsack as a seat-saver and go outside into my parish’s patio to do the readings in silence. People have learned over the years not to talk to me before Mass either in church or outside in the patio. The back-pats I can live with.
On the chatter, you shouldn’t have to leave the church to get silence. You should be able to pray in the sanctuary in silence, in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament. How can going on out on a patio be a solution? The chatters should go out on the patio!
Oy. I haven’t gotten deep enough into it to encounter this, but I can see how this could be a possibility. Has this happened to you at multiple locations, or is it just one group?
Another option is a reverent Ordinary Form Mass. But those apparently don’t exist (or at least not around me).
You’re not understanding. While you shouldn’t have to go outside (which was only 1 of 2 options) you cannot silence the rude people and it too many situations the pastor or administrator (for a variety of reasons) is ineffective at restoring silence. You can try to ask them nicely to be quiet but to concept is often so foreign to them that they’re not going to listen.On the chatter, you shouldn’t have to leave the church to get silence. You should be able to pray in the sanctuary in silence, in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament. How can going on out on a patio be a solution? The chatters should go out on the patio!
I don’t know why my pastor does not deal with these issues until things really get out of hand. I suspect one reason is that he just doesn’t see the behavior first hand. He blows into the sacristy 5 minutes before Mass and is gone immediately thereafter. I suspect there might be a touch of cowardice involved as well. He is literally afraid to deal with some very nasty people and who can blame him? It takes a fair amount of courage to deal with some of the entrenched parish garbage. Maybe he really thinks that it’s OK? He is very evasive when I have asked so I don’t really know.
Go for ten weeks in a row. Then it will not be “new” and you’ll have experience of substance to evaluate. I think you are being hard on yourself. I also think your expectations were very high. Let the Mass be and yourself be in it. Quietly and slowly and see what happens.Any advice, suggestions. I come in peace and goodwill, I believe both forms of the Mass are valid, so please don’t attack and remember that I am also new to this forum. Thank you.
“…keep in mind that if the TLM was restored as the OF then you’d have the same people acting the same way at the TLM…”
Of course I understand I can’t silence the rude people. I would never even ask them to be quiet, that’s not my job and I’m not that kind of person anyway.
I like your solutions, I just think it’s sad that it has to come to this. As to your comment that I am stewing in anger or gossiping, that is just not true (unless complaining on an anonymous message board counts as gossip). And I would never be menacing, ever. I like the people in the parish, truly. And it would take me my whole life to gossip about them all doing this stuff, since 99% of them are doing it
This is the crux of the matter, and what is truly troubling. Our priests are around before Mass, they don’t just dash in or out, so they do know what is going on, it would be impossible for them not to. I can only speak for my parish. I do believe our priests are good and holy men, so I am going to assume they do not approve of these behaviors either. I do think that the priests are scared of the parishioners, should they dare say anything. Even something simple, like a sign on the door requesting silence in the sanctuary. Or a simple note in the bulletin about dress codes in the summer. Scared.
Thank you for this advice. I think my expectations were too high.
I think this is true. The EF is selecting for a certain type of person, who possibly has been driven out of their regular parish Mass. We see things there that are positive, and connect them to the EF Mass, when really it’s correlation not causation.
The issue is that if the priest tells a group to be quiet they will be…for about 5 minutes. Signs are often ignored.
Two comments on this. A lot of priests do kinda blow in and out. I know our new pastor does (he’ll stick around and talk a bit, but he’s on the road ASAP), and there’s been a couple times I’ve gone to another parish near my house and felt like I was going to be late to Mass, only to find the guy going from his car to the chruch with me is the Priest. It’s largely because many priests no longer live in rectories, and commute to the parish. Which I don’t think is right cause it just distances the priest from the congregation.
Juliane, the answer to all of these questions is “It varies highly.” In some churches the congregation says absolutely nothing; in probably the majority the congregation makes the simple responses of “Et cum spiritu tuo,” the preface dialogue (“Habemus ad Dominum / Dignum et justum est”), and “Sed libera nos a malo” after the Our Father; and in an extremely small number of churches they follow the Dialogue Mass format, where the congregation is expected to join in all of the servers’ responses. As to music, it depends greatly on the day, the resources of the church, the ideological “purity” of the pastor, whether the church has actually had an uninterrupted musical tradition or whether it is a new creation based on modern conceptions of “what it must have been like back then,” etc., etc.Sorry to jump into this thread, but I was a child when Vat II happened and then we stopped attending. I seem to recall that the priest had his back to us a lot, when I was a child, but other than “my fault, my fault, my most grievous fault,” I don’t remember very much about the Mass (except getting PINCHED by my mother if sis and me made any fuss).
When I go to the TLM, are there ANY responses from the congregation? Or is the whole thing done by the priest with his back turned to us? If I go, I want to be prepared for what happens.
If there is no participation by the congregation, what do people do instead? Kneel and pray the rosary? Follow along in Latin?
And is there any music at all? Totally silent? Or perhaps chant? I guess that would depend on the parish and what talent they have available…
Sorry for the questions, and I really appreciate your help.
I agree. If the priests dared to say Boo about anything, people would run off and take their “business” elsewhere, wouldn’t they?
The Masses I went to had no responses from the pews, or very few anyway. No music either. People were following along in the missal mostly. I didn’t see any Rosaries.Sorry to jump into this thread, but I was a child when Vat II happened and then we stopped attending. I seem to recall that the priest had his back to us a lot, when I was a child, but other than “my fault, my fault, my most grievous fault,” I don’t remember very much about the Mass (except getting PINCHED by my mother if sis and me made any fuss).
When I go to the TLM, are there ANY responses from the congregation? Or is the whole thing done by the priest with his back turned to us? If I go, I want to be prepared for what happens.
If there is no participation by the congregation, what do people do instead? Kneel and pray the rosary? Follow along in Latin?
And is there any music at all? Totally silent? Or perhaps chant? I guess that would depend on the parish and what talent they have available…
Sorry for the questions, and I really appreciate your help.