America Needs Fatima

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I’ve known America Needs Fatima for over 20 years. It’s a project of Tradition, Family and Property – TFP. As lay Catholics, I can assure you that they are faithful to the Magisterium of the Holy Catholic Church and do great work to spread devotion to Our Lady of Fatima.
No, they’re not. The TFP is a heretic cult originated in Brazil which considers its founder to be a reincarnation of Jesus and his mother of Mary. The TFP was condemned by the Brazilian NCB and forbid any Catholic to join it.

Here’s a quote from L’Osservatore Romano of July 7, 1985:During its 23rd plenary assembly, the Council of Brazilian bishops approved a note concerning the ‘Brazilian Society for the Defence of Tradition, Family and Property’, advising Catholics not to join the above mentioned Society.* Its esoteric character, its religious fanaticism, the personality cult of the founder and of his mother, the abuse of the name of the Virgin Mary* can absolutely not be approved of by the Church."
Now, did I keep the beautiful picture of Our Lady of Fatima without sending them a dime? You bet!

:blessyou:
 
Please Karl or someone who is at the heart of this wonderful apostolate

As we approach the anniversary of the Fatima apparaitions we have seriously conflicting messages.

The clear claim that there is no “fourth secret”:
cathnews.com/news/705/86.php

…And the apocalyptic message of some groups such as TFP who raise huge amounts of money through claiming to be “orthodox”

I have serious reservations about TFP rooted in experiences years ago

Please give an update on the group, who really oversees it, what they do with all that money they raise and why they are so secretive

Deacon Fournier

aliH
 
I saw the TFP at the pro life march in Washington. I also have been to their website. I asked a priest about them, out of curiosity, and he warned me to stay away from them, as they are cult like.
 
Code:
So, you don’t think there would be a problem with me reciting a public rosary with the Gruner gang et al? Do not my action of being with them a sign of my collaboration with them?
There is some confusion here. For the record, Fr. Gruner from Canada is not associated with America Needs Fatima in any way.

God bless.
John

P.S. – Latest news: Cardinals and Bishops support and encourage TFP/America Needs Fatima’s rosary rally campaign. These letters remove any doubt as to the legitimacy of America Needs Fatima. It appears some of the authors on this thread have an ax to grind rather than know the truth about this lay apostolate which holds the same canonical status as that of the Knights of Columbus.

Bishops support Rosary Rallies:👍
tfp.org/rosarycampaign/encouragement_from_bishops.htm
 
There is some confusion here. For the record, Fr. Gruner from Canada is not associated with America Needs Fatima in any way.

God bless.
John

P.S. – Latest news: Cardinals and Bishops support and encourage TFP/America Needs Fatima’s rosary rally campaign. These letters remove any doubt as to the legitimacy of America Needs Fatima. It appears some of the authors on this thread have an ax to grind rather than know the truth about this lay apostolate which holds the same canonical status as that of the Knights of Columbus.

Bishops support Rosary Rallies:👍
tfp.org/rosarycampaign/encouragement_from_bishops.htm
It doesn’t remove much doubt from me. TFP is known to “snuggle up” to all the right causes and show up to all the right events to make people associate them with all these good and noble causes/people/organizations (and even Our Lady of Fatima herself!). It would be necessary for these endorsing Bishops and Cardinals to address the Brazilian Bishops’ finding that TFP is a cult, and show evidence that their finding has been rescinded or was inaccurate, in order to “remove any doubt” about the nature of this organization. From the snippets of endorsement on the TFP website, one could surmise that these American Bishops/Cardinals don’t even know about the scandal in Brazil. :confused:
 
Cardinal Medina addresses the “cult” accusation leveled against the TFP in France to my satisfaction in a letter dated 02/11/07.

The Cardinal is the Prefect Emeritus of the Congregation for Divine Worship and remains a member of several congregations. He had the honor of announcing the election of Benedict XVI during the last conclave.

As an aside, it is fairly interesting to note how most attacks against TFP/America Needs Fatima (such as the Unity Publishing one) are anonymous, unsigned articles.

You can read Cardinal Medina’s letter here:

tfp.org/what_we_do/index/letter_Cardinal_Medina_facsimile.htm

God bless!
 
Deacon Fournier

If this Deacon Fournier is Keith Fournier,
I just want to say that I loved your book, written many
years ago, called EVANGELICAL CATHOLICS.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
 
Cardinal Medina addresses the “cult” accusation leveled against the TFP in France to my satisfaction in a letter dated 02/11/07.

The Cardinal is the Prefect Emeritus of the Congregation for Divine Worship and remains a member of several congregations. He had the honor of announcing the election of Benedict XVI during the last conclave.

As an aside, it is fairly interesting to note how most attacks against TFP/America Needs Fatima (such as the Unity Publishing one) are anonymous, unsigned articles.

You can read Cardinal Medina’s letter here:

tfp.org/what_we_do/index/letter_Cardinal_Medina_facsimile.htm

God bless!
Whoa!! Here is the excerpt from the link you provided that deals with the “cult” issue:

I know that in France the TFP has been accused of being a cult, which appears to me neither just nor objective. It is strange that persons who claim to uphold secularism, want to determine who is Catholic and who is not.

I didn’t even know they were accused of being a cult in France, too! I was speaking about the decision of the National Council of Brazilian Bishops, denouncing the Brazilian Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family, and Property as a cult of personality and engaging in abuse of the Holy Name of Mary. This letter is addressing an entirely different issue (which is another red flag as far as I’m concerned!). :eek:
 
Father Trigilio speaks regularly at TFP’s national conference.

Cardinal Echeverria wrote a glowing eulogy of the founder of the Brazilian TFP, Prof. Plinio Correa de Oliveira.

The same with Cardinal Stickler, who wrote the preface to the book Crusader of the 20th Century, about Prof. Oliveira.

The list goes on and on.

But those who attack TFP will say these priests and prelates are being duped.
 
Father Trigilio speaks regularly at TFP’s national conference.

Cardinal Echeverria wrote a glowing eulogy of the founder of the Brazilian TFP, Prof. Plinio Correa de Oliveira.

The same with Cardinal Stickler, who wrote the preface to the book Crusader of the 20th Century, about Prof. Oliveira.

The list goes on and on.

But those who attack TFP will say these priests and prelates are being duped.
Please prove me wrong. I have no personal interest in attacking TFP, but I do not want people being led astray either. If you can show us where these priests and prelates who support TFP have explained their disregard for National Council of Brazilian Bishops’ decision to rule TFP as a “cult” and to advise all Catholics to have nothing to do with them, I will readily listen! But at the same time, it’s one thing to note the association of these good priests with the TFP, and another thing to note the findings of the Brazilian Bishops on the TFP. So are you saying that because these priests endorse TFP, the Brazilian Bishops have their heads screwed on wrong? How can you so readily disregard their findings? Just because they don’t live near you, are they somehow “lesser” when they issue their not-so-glowing reports on Prof. Oliviera? Bear in mind, too, that these Brazilian Bishops are closer to the source and can more easily see the bad fruits of TFP in their country.

Welcome to the forums, by the way 👋 I noticed that was your first post.
 
The National Conference of Brazilian Bishops endorsed CEDAW, promoted land reform, gun control and the pro-marxist liberation theology, which was condemned by both Pope John Paul II and Benedict XVI. I am not sure how much weight their (Brazilian Bishop’s Conference) judgment carries, if they indeed oppose the Vatican on some very important issues. Since the TFP openly opposes land reform, liberation theology, it seems a number of members of the bishop’s conference in Brazil wanted to silence the organization.

I would rather rely on the opinion of Vatican theologians regarding the TFP than listen to self-appointed “cult” experts who don’t have a clue what they’re talking about or serious credentials.

This is what I also found on www.tfp.org:

Revolution and Counter-Revolution, the basic book and inspiration of the many autonomous Societies for the Defense of Tradition, Family and Property and like organizations, contains principles of wisdom that can efficaciously stop the disintegration of civilization in the world today.

The author of this work is the world-famous Brazilian Catholic philosopher Prof. Plinio Correa de Oliveira. Over the years he has written numerous works that have received noteworthy ecclesiastical approbation.

For example, in the late 40s, his Em Defesa da Acão Catolica, denouncing the danger presented by leftists encysted in the Catholic Action movement, prompted a letter of praise from Msgr. Montini, then substitute for the Vatican secretary of state, written on behalf of Pius XII.

In another work, The Church and the Communist State: The Impossible Coexistence (1963), the author proved that a Catholic could not view the establishment of a communist regime in his country as morally acceptable. The Vatican’s Sacred Congregation of Seminaries and Universities called this work “a most faithful echo of all the Documents of the supreme Magisterium of the Church, including the luminous encyclicals Mater et Magistra of John XXIII and Ecclesiam Suam of Paul VI.”

In 1992, he wrote Nobility and Analogous Traditional Elitesin the Allocutions of Pius XII contrasting two models of society. The first model is Christian, founded on the idea that God wills proportional and harmonic inequalities among the social classes, all of whose members are entitled to at least sufficient living conditions. The second model is based on the erroneous idea that all inequality is unjust. The book has been acclaimed in eloquent letters by Silvio Cardinal Oddi, Mario Luigi Cardinal Ciappi, Alfons M. Cardinal Stickler, theologian Fr. Raimondo Spiazzi, Thomist Fr. Victorino Rodriguez y Rodriguez, and canonist Fr. Anastasio Gutierrez.

Yet, the most significant of Professor Correa de Oliveira’s works is Revolution and Counter-Revolution. Its significance was quickly recognized. Eugene Cardinal Tisserant wrote: “The theme of this study is of the highest importance for the time in which we live… The analysis made by Professor Correa de Oliveira is clear, precise and accurate. . . . It will be of interest to a considerable number of our fellow citizens. I congratulate the author of this magnificent work.” Thomas Cardinal Tien, of China, stated: “Those of us who personally suffer from the effects of communism are well able to calculate the accuracy and urgent necessity of such a study.”

All the editions of Revolution and Counter-Revolution have concluded with these words:

"We have not the slightest doubt in our heart about any of the theses that constitute this work. Nevertheless, we subject them all unrestrictedly to the judgment of the Vicar of Christ and are disposed to renounce immediately any one of them if it depart even slightly from the teaching of the Holy Church, our Mother, the Ark of Salvation, and the Gate of Heaven."

Over forty years have passed since this statement was first published. In the meantime, Revolution and Counter-Revolution has been spread throughout the world without any of its theses being challenged as contrary to the Church’s Magisterium. This fact corroborates the earlier approbations and testifies to the integrity of this enduring work.

tfp.org/what_we_think/rcr_book_online/rcr_intro.html

Cardinal Echeverria Ruiz, O.F.M. on Prof. Plinio
tfp.org/who_we_are/cardinal_echeverria.htm

Cardinal Stickler on Prof. Plinio - TFP founder
tfp.org/who_we_are/cardinal_stickler.htm
 
I would be much more reassured if these glowing approvals weren’t from their own website. :confused:
 
As a Brazilian, I have my share of disagreements with many Brazilian bishops, especially in their pandering to Marxists.

However, I’ve witnessed what the TFP made to some acquaintances, making of them text-book cases of cult members.

The TFP is taking advantage that it’s little know in America to sneak its head and take some souls to its master in hell.

Now, one can be critical of the Brazilian bishops, who’ve had over 20 years experience dealing with the TFP since its origins (the Church in Brazil was also sympathetic to it in its beginnings in the early 1960s) or one can be critical of bishops who don’t seem to have looked further into what the TFP is, taking its statements at face value.

Here’s what the Brazilian bishops said in 1985, on page 10 of the document at cnbb.org.br/documento_geral/LIVRO%2035-PRONUNCIAMENTOS%20-%201985.pdf, directly from the Brazilian NCB web site (cnbb.org.br)), which I translate below:

Tradition - Family - Property

The lack of communion with the Church in Brazil, her hierarchy and the Holy Father by the TFP (Brazilian Society in Defense of Tradition, Family and Property) is notorious.

Its esoteric character, the religious fanaticism, the cult paid to its founder and mother, the abuse of the name of the Most Holy Mary, according to published news, cannot in any way deserve the approval of the Church.

We regret the inconveniences caused by a civic organization which calls itself a religious Catholic entity without ties to the legitimate shepherds.

Thus, the Brazilian bishops exhort the Catholics to not associate themselves with the TFP and to not collaborate with it.

Itaici, April 19, 1985.

If this doesn’t give you pause, I don’t know what would.

:blessyou:
 
Re: whether Father Levis ‘speaks with forked-tongue.’ I have known Father Bob Levis for more than 27 years. I have been acquainted with TFP for more than 16 years.

The infamous letter from the Brazilian episcopal conference dates itself as 1985, the very same year and country where the CDF under the direction of then Cardinal Ratzinger ordered Liberation Theology guru Leonardo Boff to keep silence or incur repercussions for his dissident teachings. Those same Brazilian bishops who lashed out at TFP for defending the right of private ownership of business and property (against a socialist government), is also the same group of Brazilian bishops who gave support to Leonardo Boff. While the bishops remained silent over the communists’ attempt to nationalize private companies and to align Brazil with Cuba and the USSR, they nevertheless took time and effort to pooh-pooh TFP.

Fr. Nicholas Gruner (suspended) is the editor of Fatima Crusader, which has NOTHNG to do with America Needs Fatima or with TFP.

I have not witnessed nor am I aware of any improper behavior, unethical practices, illegal activity or any violation of civil or canon law on the part of **TFP **or its members. I and Father Andrew Apostoli, CFR, have written endorsements for recent books they have published:

I Have Weathered Other Storms
(A Response to the Scandals and Political Reforms That Threaten the Catholic Church)

D***EFENDING ***A HIGHER LAW
(Why We Must Resist Same-Sex Marriage)

Rejecting the Da Vinci Code
(How a Blasphemous Novel Brutally Attacks Our Lord and the Catholic Church)

I and others have joined **TFP **and America Needs Fatima in public demonstrations to protest blasphemous attacks such as movies like “The Last Temptation of Christ,” “The DaVinci Code,” and “Dogma”. We also joined them in protests at the Brooklyn Museum of Art when they had on exhibit an image of the Blessed Virgin Mary encrusted with elephant dung and a picture of a Crucifix immersed in a jar of urine. We join them in their conspicuous presence every year at the March for Life in Washington, DC, when they parade with their young people’s band and bright red banners.

TFP and America Needs Fatima are very orthodox, very Catholic, very Pro-Life. None of their detractors can produce one document incriminating them of any heresy, theological dissent or any schismatic actions. Like Opus Dei and EWTN, TFP has many enemies who use slander and calumny. No credible evidence has yet been produced to either civil or ecclesiastical authorities to corroborate claims of misappropriation, intimidation, cult-like activity, religious fanaticism, etc.
 
The infamous letter from the Brazilian episcopal conference dates itself as 1985, the very same year and country where the CDF under the direction of then Cardinal Ratzinger ordered Liberation Theology guru Leonardo Boff to keep silence or incur repercussions for his dissident teachings.
Now who’s perpetrating calumny and doing an ad hominem attack?
Those same Brazilian bishops who lashed out at TFP for defending the right of private ownership of business and property (against a socialist government), is also the same group of Brazilian bishops who gave support to Leonardo Boff. While the bishops remained silent over the communists’ attempt to nationalize private companies and to align Brazil with Cuba and the USSR, they nevertheless took time and effort to pooh-pooh TFP.
Now here you demonstrate your ignorance about Brazil. Under a military dictatorship, over 60% of the Brazilian economy was state-owned. That dictatorship finished in 1986, when the economy started to be slowly privittized again.

Brazil joined the non-aligned countries beside Cuba in the early 1960s, before the military dictatorship, which contributed to it. But then, the same military government kept its non-aligned stance with Cuba in its foreign policy.

So, all this goes to show that you have no idea what you’re talking about, not about Brazil, not about its bishops and not about TFP.

What the CNBB referred to as abuse of the name of Our Mother, they were referring to the fact that the founder of the TFP, Plinio Correa de Oliveira, after the passing of his mother, started to say that she was the reincarnation of Mary, mother of Jesus. Therefore, he got to the conclusion that he himself was nobody other than the 2nd coming of Jesus. The members of the inner circle of the TFP know this, those who leave family to join them know too, and THIS is what the TFP believes and worships to this day.

I used to go to a Maronite parish in Sao Paulo where the TFP would go too. Actually, they didn’t take part in Mass, instead they’d remain outside praying the Rosary and only get in to receive Holy Communion. They never go to Novus Ordo Masses, instead they prefer even Lefebvrists when they cannot find a Tridentine Mass to go to, where they again only get in for Communion

Of course, in no place will you find them saying it. No American bishop will find it either, nor our beloved Fr. Groeschel. They may seem Marian, orthodox and Catholic, but they are not. Along with them, you’ve been duped.

The TFP has no hope in Brazil, where thanks to the work of Olavo de Carvalho and Orlando Fedeli (a former official of the TFP), it’s been exposed as nothing but a heretical cult. No wonder it’s expanding its activities outside Brazil, where it’s little know, as you well demonstrate it.

:blessyou:

PS: I met Mr. Fedeli while under spiritual direction by an Opus Dei priest.
 
Re: whether Father Levis ‘speaks with forked-tongue.’ I have known Father Bob Levis for more than 27 years. I have been acquainted with TFP for more than 16 years.

Ruth, I can’t endorse TFP and its major apologetic current apostolate, America Needs Fatima, too highly. The organization began in Brazil,had some difficulty with its Cardinal at that time. All that is past history. I do all that I can to encourage the TFP. God bless you. Fr. Bob Levis
I read the above paragraph wrong. All I saw was ‘can’t endorse’…part of my dyslexia…my apologies…😊

Fr. Nicholas Gruner (suspended) is the editor of Fatima Crusader, which has NOTHNG to do with America Needs Fatima or with TFP.

I was using Gruner as an example…not that he was part of whatever organization we are talking about. Saying a public rosary with Fr Gruner’s ilke woul look like I am collaborating with the organization…even if the rosary is a beautiful tribute to Our Lady.
 
The feverish tabloid style attacks on TFP made me research the group very thoroughly. Over the years, I have read hundreds of their articles and books. What I found was consistently Catholic, full of love for the Papacy and the Church.

I ask those in doubt to read TFP works (they publish position papers weekly at www.tfp.org) and see for yourself.

This consistent, doctrinal and serene work in favor of the good cause can only provoke attacks from the Evil One. This is why I think that Cardinal Echeverria Ruiz wrote in his eulogy of TFP founder, Prof. Plinio:

"It happens that such souls are victims of the most passionate and unfounded attacks, which attempt to silence them and illustrate the obstinacy that often pervades the spirit of some classes of men. When the figures are truly great, however, their adversaries neither bring them down nor silence them, for their unfair attacks ultimately emphasize - against their wishes - the qualities of those elect souls. This is what happened with the Divine Saviour: He was attacked, reviled, and martyred by His executioners, but His light, despite the efforts of so many to destroy it, will shine in His Church until the end of times.

"Christianus alter Christus - the Christian is another Christ. Something analogous happened with Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira over the decades until his recent and regretted death. It was difficult to mention his name in recent times on our continent and even in the greater part of the West without unleashing applause and admiration on one side and, on the other, true verbal storms, always so sodden in passion and so devoid of basis.

“Indeed, the fury of the attacks he suffered were frequently not accompanied with arguments. But his serene, always courteous and incisively rich, clear, and convincing response dissipated objections and placed things in their proper place. This, raising the level of the debate, deserved the gratitude of his enemies, but frequently unleashed hatred, resentment, and disdain.”

People of good will and fair mind will agree.

🙂
 
I would agree with the TFP that not all inequality (economic) is
necessarily unjust.
However, I don’t believe that Christ would have us
deliberate perpetuate a “Class” system.

In much of Latin America, the upper classes IGNORE
the horrific, abject, subhuman poverty that many of their countrymen have to endure on a daily basis. That suffering is the REASON why those extremely poverty stricken people
fall for the false siren-songs sung by the likes of political figures
like Evita Peron, Karl Marx, Fidel Castro, and Hugo Chavez.

My best friend accompanied his girlfriend on a two month medical internship to Venezuela a few years ago. I would never defend Chavez’s destruction of Venezuela’s democratic system, which he IS doing and that’s abominable. But what my friend saw in Venezuela horrified him. They landed in and initially stayed in Caracas, a gorgeous modern city. But then after a few days they headed for the countrysides of Venezuela, and my friend said he never knew that human beings could even survive under such horrific, grinding, crushing, subhuman poverty. He said the poverty was worse than he could have ever humanly imagined and that it was EVERYWHERE.
CLEARLY, in an oil-rich and hence WEALTHY nation like Venezuela, for such crushing poverty to afflict over 70% of the population, something is seriously morally wrong here.
We Catholics who do not live in grinding poverty have to face the fact that there are many who do, and it is an abomination before God that we who have the means to donate to feeding and educational and housing charities for these people, often do not do so, but live it up in this world. It’s not wrong to enjoy life, but it is wrong to just have a superior attitude because one happens to have plenty of money. I don’t want to generalize, but I have seen that snooty arrogance and don’t-care attitude very much in evidence in the Hispanic community here in Miami-Dade County.
The Cubans who have lots of $$$ generally look DOWN THEIR NOSES at those who don’t, as if those people are somehow BENEATH them. And I have heard many of them state just as much verbatim, too. If that’s how the upper middle and upper classes behave toward the poor in Latin America (and other places) it is no wonder that siren-song false prophets and Pied Pipers like Chavez get elected. When my friend was in Venezuela among the horribly poverty-stricken, they told him they HATED Chavez because he is a thug. My friend asked them if they voted for him. Many of them said yes and would do so again even though they DON’T like or approve of him personally.
And why? Because even though he is a total JERK, he does
help feed them.

I loathe the CLASS mentality.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
 
This debate about TFP has me reading more from their website. I’m learning so much and I think participants of this forum will find their site fascinating too.

For example, I read this recent article titled “Our Lady’s Birth and the Triumph of Her Reign.” It was taken from an informal lecture Professor Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira gave on September 8, 1966. It has been translated and adapted for publication without his revision.

Everything the Church does is wise. In Her wisdom, She classifies the different levels of honor to be paid to God, Our Lady and the saints. The first level, called latria or adoration, is only for God and Our Lord Jesus Christ, Who is the Incarnate Word.

The cult of dulia is veneration or mediation, which the Church pays to the saints. However, there is a special category of honor that the Church only pays to Our Lady, called hyperdulia. Our Lady ranks so high above all other saints that the Church had to create a special cult to describe devotion to her. This demonstrates the unique position of Our Lady in all creation.

The Church teaches this in a number of ways. For example: Besides that of Our Lord and Saint John the Baptist, no other birthday is celebrated; no other saint has more than one feast day per year; and while the Church does not allow the same saint to be represented multiple times on the same altar, She permits any number of images of Our Lady to be placed anywhere in a church. Also, the Church celebrates dozens of calendar feasts, liturgical ceremonies and pious practices in Our Lady’s honor.

Among these, Our Lady’s Holy Nativity has a special significance, since it marked a new era in the history of the chosen people.

Since the Old Testament is no more than the account of the wait for the Messias, it can be divided into two phases: The first would be the 4,000-5,000 years before Our Lady’s birth. The second is after that blessed moment in which Providence resolved to bring forth she, whose prayer would bring the Messias.

Her birth was the arrival of that perfect creature who was full of grace before God. Without her, the prayers and sufferings of all humanity would have failed to bring the Incarnation. However with her, the trajectory of history was forever changed. All prayers became more effective and a new manner of blessings and graces began producing sanctity like never before.

Our Lady served as the “Doorway to Heaven” that the hope of the Messias’ coming passed through. Her presence on earth was the occasion for signal graces. The height of her contemplation gave her a force of presence. It made her a fountain of so many and such high graces, that her very existence was an annunciation of Our Lord’s coming.

Thus, the feast of Our Lady’s nativity is very dear. It is the beginning of the Redemption that would eventually defeat the evil powers of paganism and the Gentiles.

There is a profound relationship between Our Lady’s coming and what is occurring in modern society. Once again, Our Lady has taken a pivotal role in history, by raising up souls that burn with the desire for her reign amid the darkness of neo-paganism. They clamor for it and fight for its implantation on earth.

These souls are like Our Lady of the Old Testament. The light has not yet come; neither has the redemption, victory nor liberation from the devil. However, these souls spread graces of hope and determination, in such a way, that they herald the coming victory.

Thus, Our Lady’s nativity is symbolically repeated to prepare the coming of her reign, prophesied by Saint Louis de Montfort and the apparitions of Fatima.

For those who desire Our Lady’s victory, this feast day is especially important. These should pray fervently, for the immediate coming of Her reign, when the long dark night of sin will be eclipsed by her triumph.
 
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