American catholicism and support for Israel?

[oldcatholicguy]

Well brother. You are completely blind. I do not justify bombings. You however seems to justify Israel dropping Phosphorous bombs , killing thousands of civilians in Gaza because some lunatic killed a couple in Israel? Palestinians did suicide bombings even before islam became radicalized. This has nothing to do with that, although they have increased because of the radicalization. A radicalization that would not have been possible if Israel did not behace the way they did. A bunch of europeans (many of them criminals) started to go to Palestine, steal their land and kill their people. The most powerful nation in the world (US) supports this and blocks every effort for justice. Naturally the people will resist with whatever means they have. The world is NOT black and white. This is a complete fallacy. The line of “Good” and “Evil” passes through each individual. America is the sole supporter of Israeli evil in the world. No other nation could continue to support Israeli ethnic cleansings and murder anylonger because the public pressure was simply to heavy. American media is also clearly biased toward US/Israeli interests and completely unique from the rest of the world. This propaganda is necessary to keep the american people in their deep sedation from reality.
It is America that supports Everything Israel has done. That ILLEGALLY invaded Iraq and have KILLED 1 Million lives in that war to “secure” Israel.

And Now, ISrael want US to send their troops to invade Iran because of some supposed nuclear weapon. Even though Iran has not attacked another nation in over 200 years and has signed the Non Proliferation Treaty. Israel on the other hand possess 300+ Nuclear Warheads, refuse to cooperate with the IAEA and refuses to sign the Non Proliferation Treaty. In fact, the public opinion of the world and the Middle East is clearly in favour of a Nuclear weapons free zone in the middle east, which US and UK is commited to making happen since they invaded Iraqq. But Israel says “no”.

Besides, the evangelicals only support Israel so their man-made imaginary Jesus-idol can come and kill all jews that do not convert.
You couldnt make this stuff up.

How can a so called “christian” possibly support this clearly imperialist, murderous behaviour is beyond my mind…

I thought Israel signed the Non Proliferation Treaty then started a secret nuclear weapons program in violation of the treaty, did its best to lie to, deny access to, and stall inspectors, seek help from other countries that had their own secret and illegal nuclear weapons programs, and ignore several UN resolutions concerning its violation of the treaty. Oh wait, I was thinking of Iran.

Well at least we can point to Israel’s status as an arms exporter and say “shame on you.” After all, there’s no reason such a small country that hasn’t gone to war since the 1800s (when it attacked another country) should rank in the rather European heavy top ten arms exporting countries of the world. Oh darn it, that describes Sweden not Israel.

Well at least I know I can make an anti-Israel statement when it comes to race relations. It’s not like Sweden is one of the most racist (against both Jews and Muslims) countries in Europe and has had travel advisories issued by human rights groups concerning Jewish travel to certain parts of it. Oh darn it again.

I think I’ll just quit while I’m ahead.

 

[chosen_people]

Yasser Arafat and the P.L.O virtually took over southern Lebanon in the mid 70’s. With Syrian backing, they carried out a campaign of murder, torture and rape against the Christian population. Fortunately for the Christians of south Lebanon, the Jewish State came to their rescue, driving out Yasser Arafat and the P.L.O. From a personal point of view, I did five reserve army tours, giving medical assistance and physical protection to the Christians of south Lebanon between 1982 - 1985.

Brigitte Gabriel, an Arab Lebanese Christian, is a survivor of this time. I have included a link to a short video where she describes some personal experiences:

youtube.com/watch?v=mn-yq6By82E

As a youth I often visited the town of Bethlehem. Under Israeli control, the town and its majority Christian population prospered. After being turned over to the Palestinian Authority in the framework of the Oslo peace accords, the Christians were persecuted and many left. Today they make up a small minority of the population of Bethlehem.

Neighboring Beit Jalla, made up of Christians, was used by Arafat as a base for shooting and sniping at Israelis, thus endangering the Christians living there (a tactic he used frequently in Lebanon - here again we see that the purpose of any “peace” agreement with Israel is to use any land gained as a base to attack Israel).

In security cases involving radical Muslim fundamentalists brought before me, the evidence frequently includes incidents of “excursions” by these same groups to places with relatively large Christian populations, like Nazareth, in attempts to torment Christians in various ways.

Less than a hundred meters from my courtroom window, stands a Russian Orthodox Church. My family fled the religious and political antisemitism of the Russian pogroms in the 19th Century. Today, four generations later, it is my job to help ensure that all people of all religions may freely worship and practice their religion. For the first time, under the rule of the Jewish State of Israel, all people have access to all their religious sites and all people may engage in their religious beliefs without fear.

That is not to say, that any of this will ever change those who have a deep dislike of the Jews. (see link)
jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdCo…aspx?id=231998

However, no matter what, we Jews will keep on doing what we have been doing for more than three thousand years, sticking to our eternal covenant. In the end, love us or hate us, no matter what, we will always be a country of democratic and Jewish values.

 

[YKohen]

1. It is no coincidence that the past number have Popes and their representatives have worked diligently to strengthen ties with Israel- and vice versa. Israel is the only country in the region with a growing Christian population.
2. It isn’t only Catholic Americans:

"Catholics from Nigeria, Poland Among Top Tourists to Israel"
A study released by the Tourism Ministry contained some surprises as to who comes to Israel to visit, and why
10/18/2012

…The largest number of people visiting Israel are not Jewish, but Christian; and the largest number of Christians coming to Israel are Catholic, not fundamentalist Protestants. Fifty eight percent of visitors in 2011 were Christian, while only 25% were Jewish; 1% were Moslem. Among the Christians, 52% were Catholic, and 21% Protestants. The highest proportion of Christian tourists came from Nigeria, Poland, Portugal and Italy…

1. Last year was the best year ever for tourism here:

publici.com/content/incoming-tourism-israel-2012-610000-americans-590000-russians

israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=7006

1. But just to be clear:

"Americans’ Sympathies for Israel Match All-Time High" (March 15, 2013)

PRINCETON, NJ – As President Barack Obama prepares to visit Israel, the Palestinian West Bank, and Jordan next week – his first trip to the region as president – Americans’ sympathies lean heavily toward the Israelis over the Palestinians, 64% vs. 12%. Americans’ partiality for Israel has consistently exceeded 60% since 2010; however, today’s 64% ties the highest Gallup has recorded in a quarter century, last seen in 1991 during the Gulf War. At that time, slightly fewer than today, 7%, sympathized more with the Palestinians.

One of the more notable aspects of the trend is the steady increase in relative support for Israel over the past decade, at the same time that the percentage with no opinion or favoring neither side has declined. Preference for the Palestinians has been relatively flat, generally in the mid- to high teens, before this year…

 

[october_baby]

Yasser Arafat and the P.L.O virtually took over southern Lebanon in the mid 70’s. With Syrian backing, they carried out a campaign of murder, torture and rape against the Christian population. Fortunately for the Christians of south Lebanon, the Jewish State came to their rescue, driving out Yasser Arafat and the P.L.O. From a personal point of view, I did five reserve army tours, giving medical assistance and physical protection to the Christians of south Lebanon between 1982 - 1985.

Brigitte Gabriel, an Arab Lebanese Christian, is a survivor of this time. I have included a link to a short video where she describes some personal experiences:

youtube.com/watch?v=mn-yq6By82E

As a youth I often visited the town of Bethlehem. Under Israeli control, the town and its majority Christian population prospered. After being turned over to the Palestinian Authority in the framework of the Oslo peace accords, the Christians were persecuted and many left. Today they make up a small minority of the population of Bethlehem.

Neighboring Beit Jalla, made up of Christians, was used by Arafat as a base for shooting and sniping at Israelis, thus endangering the Christians living there (a tactic he used frequently in Lebanon - here again we see that the purpose of any “peace” agreement with Israel is to use any land gained as a base to attack Israel).

In security cases involving radical Muslim fundamentalists brought before me, the evidence frequently includes incidents of “excursions” by these same groups to places with relatively large Christian populations, like Nazareth, in attempts to torment Christians in various ways.

Less than a hundred meters from my courtroom window, stands a Russian Orthodox Church. My family fled the religious and political antisemitism of the Russian pogroms in the 19th Century. Today, four generations later, it is my job to help ensure that all people of all religions may freely worship and practice their religion. For the first time, under the rule of the Jewish State of Israel, all people have access to all their religious sites and all people may engage in their religious beliefs without fear.

That is not to say, that any of this will ever change those who have a deep dislike of the Jews. (see link)
jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdCo…aspx?id=231998

However, no matter what, we Jews will keep on doing what we have been doing for more than three thousand years, sticking to our eternal covenant. In the end, love us or hate us, no matter what, we will always be a country of democratic and Jewish values.

G-D bless you!

 

[Shamati]

I thought Israel signed the Non Proliferation Treaty then started a secret nuclear weapons program in violation of the treaty, did its best to lie to, deny access to, and stall inspectors, seek help from other countries that had their own secret and illegal nuclear weapons programs, and ignore several UN resolutions concerning its violation of the treaty. Oh wait, I was thinking of Iran.

Well at least we can point to Israel’s status as an arms exporter and say “shame on you.” After all, there’s no reason such a small country that hasn’t gone to war since the 1800s (when it attacked another country) should rank in the rather European heavy top ten arms exporting countries of the world. Oh darn it, that describes Sweden not Israel.

Well at least I know I can make an anti-Israel statement when it comes to race relations. It’s not like Sweden is one of the most racist (against both Jews and Muslims) countries in Europe and has had travel advisories issued by human rights groups concerning Jewish travel to certain parts of it. Oh darn it again.

I think I’ll just quit while I’m ahead.

Sweden has many faults. For example they have failed to stifle radical muslims anti-semitic attacks on Jews & one city even officially boycotted a Tennis match betwen Sweden & Israel. I dint like my government but I have a connection to the land of my ancestors, as do anyone else. However Sweden has been rated the most tolerant nation in the west many times and was recently rated 2nd most tolerant nation inbthe EU after Spain. As a matter of FACT Iran has never violated the NPT. Only in America they spew such nonsense on the news channels. The reason why Iran has been reluctant to allow IAEA into their military bases should be as obvious as why USA or Israel dont allow any Iranian officially into their weapons manufacturing labs. IAEA has leaked all their reports to western governments and has been used as a blatant proxy for Israeli & USA. Show me when and where Iran violates the NPT? Israel refuses to sign the NPT and is the sole obstacle to security a nuclear free zone in the middle east. A zone which USA & UK are both obligated to establish because of a contract when they invaded Iraq. To me, either you allow everyone to have nukes or you allow noone to have nukes. You cant discriminate.

1. In 2009, Rose Gottemoeller, an assistant secretary of state and Washington’s chief nuclear arms negotiator, asked Israel to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. Israel refused.

1. In 2009. the United Nations passed a resolution calling on Israel to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and to submit to inspections. The UN General Assembly passed a similar resolution in 2012 calling for inspections. Israel refused.

1. The IAEA asked Israel to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and to submit to inspections. Israel refused.

1. Iran’s formal notification to the IAEA of the planned construction of the backup fuel-rod facility underscores that Iran is playing by the rules of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty which Iran has signed.

1. Iran allows IAEA inspections of all its facilities.

1. Contrary to face-saving claims, it appears that the US and Israel were both caught off guard by Iran’s announcement of a planned underground (to avoid being bombed) enrichment facility. The reasoning is simple. Had the US or Israel announced the existence of he new facility before Iran’s notified the IAEA, it would have put Iran on the defensive. As it is now, the US and Israel seem to be playing catch up, casting doubt on the veracity of Israel’s claims to “know” that Iran is a nuclear threat.

1. The IAEA and all 16 United States Intelligence Agencies are unanimous in agreement that Iran is not building and does not possess nuclear weapons.

1. In 1986, Mordachai Vanunu blew the whistle and provided photographs showing Israel’s clandestine nuclear weapons factory underneath the reactor at Dimona.

1. Israel made the same accusations against Iraq that it is making against Iran, leading up to Israel’s bombing of the power station at Osirik. Following the invasion of 2003, international experts examined the ruins of the power station at Osirik and found no evidence of a clandestine weapons factory in the rubble.

1. The United Nations has just released the Goldstone Report, a scathing report which accuses Israel of 37 specific war crimes and crimes against humanity in Gaza earlier this year. Israel has denounced the report as "Anti-Semitic (even though Judge Goldstone is himself Jewish), and the United States will block the report from being referred to the War Crimes Tribunal at the Hague, thereby making the US Government an accessory after-the-fact.

1. Recently revealed documents prove not only that Israel has nuclear weapos, but actually tried to sell some to Apartheid South Africa. Who else Israel approached to sell nuclear weapons remains an unasked question.

1. In 1965, Israel stole over 200-600 pounds of weapons-grade uranium from the United States.

1. Declassified documents from the former South African regime prove not only that Israel has had nuclear weapons for decades, but has tried to sell them to other countries!

14: No less a source than the Jerusalem Post confirms that Israel has armed their German-supplied Dolphin submarines with nuclear-tipped cruise missiles.
whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/IranvIsrael.php - contains links to sources

Supporting the government when it is wrong is NOT the duty of a Free Man but of a slave.

 

[John_Savage]

Here is the test:

What do you think would happen in each of these scenarios:

1. The Palestinians declare peace, recognize Israel as a legitimate country, and lay down their arms.
2. The Israelis open their borders and lay down their arms.
3. The UN gives each Palestinian $1,000,000 to resettle in any neighboring country or Sweden.

 

[ephesians4]

The world is NOT black and white. This is a complete fallacy. The line of “Good” and “Evil” passes through each individual.

Yes I know this line of reasoning, as Christians we have probably all grown well accustomed to it being used to first suggest there is a big grey area instead of any such terrible oversimplification as “good” and “evil”. It is sometimes used to call bad things good and good things bad.

For my part, I consider suicide bombings that intentionally target school buses etc. to be far from a “natural consequence” of terrible conditions, and in fact to be definitively wickedness on the part of the individual concerned.

A position which does not need a handwave and a suggestion that there is no such thing as good and evil to stand.

There are millions of poor and starving and ill and oppressed people in the world who don’t intentionally target and murder innocent civilians.

Here is the test:

What do you think would happen in each of these scenarios:

1. The Palestinians declare peace, recognize Israel as a legitimate country, and lay down their arms.
2. The Israelis open their borders and lay down their arms.
3. The UN gives each Palestinian $1,000,000 to resettle in any neighboring country or Sweden.

1. Peace.
2. Hamas has already made this clear - annihilation of Israel
3. A festival of happiness and free love because all of the peoples mentioned are beyond reproach in their tolerance of new neighbours from foreign cultures.

 

[TEPO]

Hi,
I always wondered just why so many american christians support absolutely every last action by Israel, regardless of their even furthering of the destruction of the last remnants of palestinian christians. Until I learned about the very twisted theology of dispensationalism that say all nations must bless Israel forever or be cursed (Genesis) along with other crazy revenge fantasies and ideas of multiple “comings” of Jesus Christ where he will judge and kill all people except 144K Jews who will accept Jesus as their personal Lord and Saviour. This is an evil heresy to me and sounds like something out of a cult.

Anyway, i live in a european nation and i think that the general consensus among people born in the 80 & 90’s who are interested in world politics is that Israel is one of the most dangerous nations on earth. Lately I have become increasingly worried about the fact that these crazy dispensationalist christian zionists actually wage an awesome amount of power in decisionmaking regarding US foreign policy. To try to “force” the hand of God or not I do not know but i think it should be of utmost concern to defeat this influence for americans.

My experience with catholics & orthodox is that they are generally disaproving of Israeli aggression & apartheid politics. Most of them with very typically Christian politeness. But I wonder what American catholics feel about Israels behaviour & aggression & US’ unwavering military, financial, political support?

I didnt know where to post this question so i tried here.

There’s clearly a lot of ranting and raving going on here involving “Christian Zionists”, but what boggles my mind is how people who proclaim these “Zionist” conspiracy theories always seem to not care about the Jewish families getting murdered. As if the Jews are to blame. Or it’s the “Christian Zionists”…

Always this finger pointing going on.

 

[Francoist]

Here is the test:

What do you think would happen in each of these scenarios:

1. The Palestinians declare peace, recognize Israel as a legitimate country, and lay down their arms.
2. The Israelis open their borders and lay down their arms.
3. The UN gives each Palestinian $1,000,000 to resettle in any neighboring country or Sweden.

Good questions.

1. Peace.
2. Holocaust Part 2
3. Sweden tells them to buzz off. They use the millions of dollars to buy better bombs to murder Jews.

 

[New_World_Man]

Support for Israel in the US is not simply a “Protestant” thing. It has more to do with the fact that Israel is our only dependable ally in the region(though under Obama I wonder how strong it remains).

 

[SAVINGRACE]

I support Israel’s right to defend its citizens.

I support Palestinians rights to have a homeland as well.

Both sides have behaved badly at some point in their tragic histories.

Prayers for all people of both sides especially Palestinian Catholics and Israeli Catholics.

 

[CopticChristian]

Sweden has many faults. For example they have failed to stifle radical muslims anti-semitic attacks on Jews & one city even officially boycotted a Tennis match betwen Sweden & Israel. I dint like my government but I have a connection to the land of my ancestors, as do anyone else. However Sweden has been rated the most tolerant nation in the west many times and was recently rated 2nd most tolerant nation inbthe EU after Spain. As a matter of FACT Iran has never violated the NPT. Only in America they spew such nonsense on the news channels. The reason why Iran has been reluctant to allow IAEA into their military bases should be as obvious as why USA or Israel dont allow any Iranian officially into their weapons manufacturing labs. IAEA has leaked all their reports to western governments and has been used as a blatant proxy for Israeli & USA. Show me when and where Iran violates the NPT? Israel refuses to sign the NPT and is the sole obstacle to security a nuclear free zone in the middle east. A zone which USA & UK are both obligated to establish because of a contract when they invaded Iraq. To me, either you allow everyone to have nukes or you allow noone to have nukes. You cant discriminate.

Supporting the government when it is wrong is NOT the duty of a Free Man but of a slave.

Shamanti,

The root problem is that Israel today is the result of British Evangelicals/Dispensationalists with the aid of the United Nations, that are trying to do the work of God, bring Jesus back with a twisted theology that created this whole mess. There is no undoing it.

 

[TEPO]

Shamanti,

The root problem is that Israel today is the result of British Evangelicals/Dispensationalists with the aid of the United Nations, that are trying to do the work of God, bring Jesus back with a twisted theology that created this whole mess. There is no undoing it.

I disagree that Israel’s existence has anything to do with religion. I hope you aren’t actually falling for that nonsense.

…it has/had everything to do with spreading democracy originally… Now there are real lives at stake today. Whole families… And yes, then there are also the extremists who reside under a government which is incapable of governing its citizens -a crime in itself.

 

[TEPO]

If there were anything to blame for this mess it could only be either democracy or globalization…

Blame the UN, not religion.

 

[CopticChristian]

I disagree that Israel’s existence has anything to do with religion. I hope you aren’t actually falling for that nonsense.

…it has/had everything to do with spreading democracy originally… Now there are real lives at stake today. Whole families… And yes, then there are also the extremists who reside under a government which is incapable of governing its citizens -a crime in itself.

Tepo,

You may not be familiar with the history of the British dispensationalists and the UN…we disagree.

 

[TEPO]

Tepo,

You may not be familiar with the history of the British dispensationalists and the UN…we disagree.

Yes. I believe we do. npatrol:

 

[Limerickman]

WOW…remember that you are speaking for yourself. Not for me a Catholic. Maybe if people were showing up at your neighborhood and blowing themselves up you would have a different opinion. I won’t call you beligerent…just uneducated.

I’ve lived in a war zone.
I don’t need lectures for your kind, thanks.

 

[Limerickman]

Yasser Arafat and the P.L.O virtually took over southern Lebanon in the mid 70’s. With Syrian backing, they carried out a campaign of murder, torture and rape against the Christian population. Fortunately for the Christians of south Lebanon, the Jewish State came to their rescue, driving out Yasser Arafat and the P.L.O. From a personal point of view, I did five reserve army tours, giving medical assistance and physical protection to the Christians of south Lebanon between 1982 - 1985.

Brigitte Gabriel, an Arab Lebanese Christian, is a survivor of this time. I have included a link to a short video where she describes some personal experiences:

youtube.com/watch?v=mn-yq6By82E

As a youth I often visited the town of Bethlehem. Under Israeli control, the town and its majority Christian population prospered. After being turned over to the Palestinian Authority in the framework of the Oslo peace accords, the Christians were persecuted and many left. Today they make up a small minority of the population of Bethlehem.

Neighboring Beit Jalla, made up of Christians, was used by Arafat as a base for shooting and sniping at Israelis, thus endangering the Christians living there (a tactic he used frequently in Lebanon - here again we see that the purpose of any “peace” agreement with Israel is to use any land gained as a base to attack Israel).

In security cases involving radical Muslim fundamentalists brought before me, the evidence frequently includes incidents of “excursions” by these same groups to places with relatively large Christian populations, like Nazareth, in attempts to torment Christians in various ways.

Less than a hundred meters from my courtroom window, stands a Russian Orthodox Church. My family fled the religious and political antisemitism of the Russian pogroms in the 19th Century. Today, four generations later, it is my job to help ensure that all people of all religions may freely worship and practice their religion. For the first time, under the rule of the Jewish State of Israel, all people have access to all their religious sites and all people may engage in their religious beliefs without fear.

That is not to say, that any of this will ever change those who have a deep dislike of the Jews. (see link)
jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdCo…aspx?id=231998

However, no matter what, we Jews will keep on doing what we have been doing for more than three thousand years, sticking to our eternal covenant. In the end, love us or hate us, no matter what, we will always be a country of democratic and Jewish values.

Rank hypocrisy and more zionist lies.

 

[Limerickman]

I see that two of this sites most avid anti-Zionists have already replied, sort of like preaching to the Choir based on the attitude displayed by the questioner.
Why is it that no one of these pro-palestinian respondants faces up to the fact that the Palestinians, just like their Islamic sponsors are ferociously anti-Christian as well as anti-semetic.
Proof? Well the town of Bethlehem, up until the time the British left was 85% Christian. Today, it is only 15% Christian. This statistic is echoed throughout the Islamic Middle East, where Christians have been systematically driven from their homes. Don’t believe it? Just listen to or read the writings of Catholic Bishops throughout the region.
Turkey, the most liberal and Western oriented of all of the Islamic Nations, is the home of the Patriarch of the Orthodox Church. Under the laws of Turkey, only a Greek who is of Turkish Nationality may hold that office. The Turks closed the only Orthodox seminary over 20 years ago, and does not allow Greeks with Turkish citizenship to attend seminaries out of their country. It also requires a special visa for foreign churchmen to visit the Patriarch. If these are the conditions in Turkey, I leave it to your imagination as to what they are in any other Islamic country/community.
The funny thing is that Christians of all ilks, except possibly the neo-Hebraic evangelistic sects, are free to practice their beliefs in Israel, as they are in the US or Canada.

You forgot to mention the Christian churches which have been desecrated in Israel and the fact that clergy get spat upon regularly in Israel by the zionist/jewish natives.

 

[Limerickman]

Reductio ad Hitlerum much?

So two wrongs make a right?

Don’t waste your time replying to that one. Pointless replying.