American Flag in Sanctuary

[Trelow]

chicago:

Come to think of it, I should talk to my neighborhood mortician (who’s also an usher at my parish) sometime about this. He’s been in the business for a couple-three decade and probably can tell every story in the book.

Oh the stories, lol, too many, and I was only doing it for two years, would love to get back into it, but too hard on the wife.

 

[pkmksk]

This one bothers me. I live on a military base and the church is used for Catholic as well as protestant services. As a result, we have a small chapel at the back in another room for the Eucharist.
We can not have any statues on display or the protestants protest. Also, no crucifix is allowed to be displayed if it has the body of Christ hanging from it.

As a result we have to move these objects into church before mass and remove them afterwards. However, do you know what is always present in church? Thats right, the old red white and blue 24-7. Christ or depictions of him have to go into a closet, but thank God for the flag!

I must admit that I don’t think the flag belongs behind the alter, but I don’t think it is explicitly wrong either. What is distressing is that the flag is the largest thing in the church and is the most visible. It is mounted on the wall behind the altar and is the highest thing in the church. There is no cross, no depiction of Christ nor anything religious higher. The flag is the highest thing in the church and this is what bothers me.

Maybe I am jaded bceaue I remember reading about Nazi Germany and how the Nazi’s slowly took control of the churches in Germany. I can’t cite references off the top of my head, but I recall the first thing they did was put the Nazi flag in the church. Then it had to be up on the wall in church and eventually the flag came to replace the crucifix mounted onto the wall behind the altar. As I recall it took a few years for the change to come about, but that is essentially what happenned. Anyone with greater knowledge for or against my dilapidated memory feel free to expound/correct…

Now I am not saying we are socialists or anything. What I am saying is that old glory has a place in church, I just don’t want it to be anywhere near or above the Real Presence. Everything in it’s place, I think.

For what it is worth, I am active duty military and very proud of my flag and what it means to me.

 

[catholicanarchy]

pkmksk:

This one bothers me. I live on a military base and the church is used for Catholic as well as protestant services. As a result, we have a small chapel at the back in another room for the Eucharist.
We can not have any statues on display or the protestants protest. Also, no crucifix is allowed to be displayed if it has the body of Christ hanging from it.

As a result we have to move these objects into church before mass and remove them afterwards. However, do you know what is always present in church? Thats right, the old red white and blue 24-7. Christ or depictions of him have to go into a closet, but thank God for the flag!

I must admit that I don’t think the flag belongs behind the alter, but I don’t think it is explicitly wrong either. What is distressing is that the flag is the largest thing in the church and is the most visible. It is mounted on the wall behind the altar and is the highest thing in the church. There is no cross, no depiction of Christ nor anything religious higher. The flag is the highest thing in the church and this is what bothers me.

Maybe I am jaded bceaue I remember reading about Nazi Germany and how the Nazi’s slowly took control of the churches in Germany. I can’t cite references off the top of my head, but I recall the first thing they did was put the Nazi flag in the church. Then it had to be up on the wall in church and eventually the flag came to replace the crucifix mounted onto the wall behind the altar. As I recall it took a few years for the change to come about, but that is essentially what happenned. Anyone with greater knowledge for or against my dilapidated memory feel free to expound/correct…

Now I am not saying we are socialists or anything. What I am saying is that old glory has a place in church, I just don’t want it to be anywhere near or above the Real Presence. Everything in it’s place, I think.

For what it is worth, I am active duty military and very proud of my flag and what it means to me.

Thanks for those words. I think you’re right. I think if people are proud of the flag and all, and want to put it up, cool. Just not in the sanctuary. It doesn’t belong there. If people are feeling all patriotic and stuff, cool. Sing “God Bless America” all you want, but don’t sing it at Mass. Doesn’t belong there. Just like if it’s the priest’s birthday, it might be nice to celebrate it afterward with a nice ice cream cone or something, but you’re not going to sing “Happy Birthday To You” as the recessional song. It doesn’t make any sense to me at all.

 

[Glenn_Lego]

Deacon Ed:

In general the use of symbols such as the American flag do not belong in the sanctuary. Why is this? Our theology teaches us that heaven and earth meet at each celebration of the Mass. The sanctuary, in effect, becomes heaven. There is no American flag in heaven, and there should not be one in the sanctuary.

There is, however, no reason the flag cannot be displayed elsewhere in the church, and the narthex or vestibule seem more appropriate places.

Deacon Ed

i am curious if you are a veteran and a catholic can you have a flag draped coffin at your funeral, if the American flag shouldn’t be in the sanctuary?

 

[pkmksk]

That is a good question and to be honest, I don’t know the answer. A priest would probably be better equipped to answer since I have not been to a catholic military funeral, I have no experience. I apologize for my lack of help.

 

[surfinpure]

Has anyone forgotten how much our beloved John Paul II loved Poland? If that wasn’t the true spirit of patriotism, I don’t know what is. And if anyone could have been accused of loving his country “too much,” surely he could.

I think there’s absolutely nothing with a love of country. It isn’t idolatry. It’s natural, and it’s good.

 

[Servant1]

It may be good to address terminology specifically. Precisely to what are you referring when you use the word “sanctuary?”

If you mean inside the main part of the church, you may not actually be referring to what is liturgically the sanctuary. If you have an altar rail, the sanctuary would be INSIDE the altar rail. If you don’t have an altar rail, the sanctuary would be inside the area that would be described by the altar rail, were it present. The sanctuary is in most churches, really a small part of the church.

You may be talking about the NAVE of the church, which is the part where the congregation is. Many people refer to what are properly the nave and sancturay together as “the sanctuary.”

 

[krokal]

I think there’s absolutely nothing with a love of country. It isn’t idolatry. It’s natural, and it’s good.

It most certainly isn’t natural. Patriotism isn’t something that is natural, it is taught, by governments. On the surface, nationalism isn’t idolotrous, however, everything taken to an extreme can become that way. If you follow your country’s orders before God’s, obviously that’s a problem.

 

[surfinpure]

gnat:

It most certainly isn’t natural. Patriotism isn’t something that is natural, it is taught, by governments. On the surface, nationalism isn’t idolotrous, however, everything taken to an extreme can become that way. If you follow your country’s orders before God’s, obviously that’s a problem.

Obviously this is a matter of opinion. I say that loyalty to the land in which a person was born is absolutely natural. The government does’t teach this, it’s in us from the time we are conscious. As we grow up we come to hold dear our homes, and this land is my home. Desire to protect that land and to honor it is also natural and good.

 

[Debunkerman]

The Catholic Catechism discusses what is appropriate to be placed in a church and in discussing sacred art it uses this phrasethey are devoted to turning men’s minds devoutly toward God

People may debate whether the American flag turns our minds devoutly toward God at the same time abortion is approved under this banner. The Catechism states that the bishop has the authority to remove whatever is not appropriate.

I remember one day I was listening to a reading from chapter three of the book of Daniel. King Nebuchadnezzar threw Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego into a firey hot furnace because they would not worship a golden idol. I looked up and saw the golden eagle atop the staff of the American flag flying high above the sanctuary.

The American flag can be honored anywhere else and the Vatican f’lag belongs in the Vatican.