Cherub:
This is not the right impression you should have of me. Here is what I said about Vatican II (to clarify my point to another poster earlier):
I agree that Vatican II did not specifically invite the foul wind of progressiveness that entered the Church immediately after it – but it is at least the cause and the enabler. It is the most errantly referred-to council that ever convened on the face of the earth. Ask any radically “innovative” liturgist, priest, or layman why this or that illicit thing has been brought into practice at his parish, and the answer you will get is “Oh, well, Vatican II of course. Since the time of Vatican II, we don’t need a crucifix anymore in the sanctuary. Vatican II told us our focus is supposed to be on the resurrection…” etc… (I could list an entire page of examples of this that believe it or not are far worse.)
Something about that council has thrown wide the gates for all manner of sacrilege and profanation to enter the Church under the guise of adherence to Vatican II. It no longer matters if any of it was actually called for: it has happened. And I just can’t help thinking that something that has encouraged this much chaos to erupt must not be good. Know it by its fruit.
Yes, I have read the actual documents of the council. No, they do not suggest the atrocities that have been committed in its name. My point is that Vatican II has become the most quoted reason of all time for heresy.
I still see no reason to take on Vatican 2 as you have. I disagree that Vatican 2 was the “enabler” of the heretical commentray by a number of thoelogians.
Much, if not most, of what has gone wrong theologically would probably have strayed in any event, as the liberals found their voice and power in the 60’s and 70’s. The rise of liberal persuasion in the Church pretty much was in lock-step with the rise in liberal persausion in society.
Vatican 2 did not start the sexual revolution; it started in the 20’s (or before) and pretty much exploded into full bloom in the mid to late 60’s. Out of the sexual revolution and the massive breakdown in morals withing heterosexual relations came the explosion, subsequently, of homosexual relations. This sexual revolution, accompanied by its moral revolution, occured prior to, during, and after Vatican 2, and in spite of Vatican 2.
The hugh increase in post-high school educational opportunities brought with it an expanded forum for liberal thinkers, among whom were numbered more theologians (because of the increased number of programs granting theological degrees) which added more fuel to the fire - all of which was independent of Vatican 2.
Most heretical statements I have heard have been tied to the “spirit of Vatican 2”, which is almost always, if not always, a sign that it has absolutley nothing to do with Vatican 2, and is usually a sign that the speaker has never read the documents, or read them so long ago that they don’t remeber any of the text. I have yet to hear anyone make a heretical statment and bck it up by a V2 document.
I understand your frustration, but your analysis is seriously misguided. Complex questions deseve more than simplistic answers. Blaming the problems of the Church on Vatican 2 is a cop out. the answer goes much deeper than that, and in other directions.
You aren’t looking for any more horses are you?
