American Kids

[JimG]

The happiness of kids is important, but the happiness of their parents is more important.

An interesting reflection on the state of American kids.

American Kids

 

[Xantippe]

An interesting reflection on the state of American kids.

American Kids

Carlin says:

“Third, American society has no strong objection to very high rates of out-of-wedlock birth, a rate that is now about 40 percent for Americans as a whole and 70 percent for black Americans.”

But his chart says that only 28.6% of non-Hispanic white babies are born out of wedlock–that sounds like non-Hispanic whites are avoiding out of wedlock childbearing pretty hard.

I feel like it doesn’t really make sense to talk about the 28.6% white rate, 52.5% Hispanic and 70% out-of-wedlock black non-Hispanic births averaged out to 40.6% nationally–every single one of those groups is living a pretty distinct reality.

“And the semi-fatherless children of these reckless unions? The probability is greatly enhanced that they will do badly in school and in the world of work, that they will become drug abusers, that they will go to prison, and that they themselves will have children out of wedlock.”

This is going to sound terrible, but is it that surprising that adults who make bad decisions have children who make bad decisions?

“Not to give them this diploma, according to our educational leaders, would be bad for their self-esteem. And it would also be bad for the reputation of school leaders who measure their success in terms of how few dropouts their schools have.”

The District of Columbia has 69% of seniors graduate within four years.

washingtonpost.com/local/education/graduation-rates-climb-again-at-dc-public-schools-reaching-an-all-time-high/2016/09/29/a0592658-8515-11e6-92c2-14b64f3d453f_story.html?utm_term=.611bf460f8b3

Chicago’s 5 year graduation rate is 73.5%.

chicagotribune.com/news/ct-chicago-schools-graduation-rates-20160905-htmlstory.html

Woohoo!

These are not exactly nose-bleed type numbers.

“Fifth, American society is by and large indifferent to the killing of unborn children. They used to be killed at the rate of about 1.5 million per year. The rate has declined in recent decades. Now it’s “only” about a million per year.”

At the same time, our population is bigger than it was in 1973, so we’ve both seen a 33% decrease in the number of abortions in absolute terms, while at the same time our population is 50% larger.

To me, that does not sound like American society is “by and large indifferent to the killing of unborn children.” This is a big deal.

“I am tempted to say that Americans, by and large, don’t care about children. But this is obviously untrue, given the vast amount of energy and money we spend to make sure that our children (most of them, at least) are well fed, well clothed, well housed, and well educated. All I really know is that something horrible is also going on.”

Is the “something horrible” happening in families where a “vast amount of energy and money” is being spent on children?

 

[SuperLuigi]

Is the “something horrible” happening in families where a “vast amount of energy and money” is being spent on children?

It’s happening in general because too many people want to throw money at the problem and not address the root cause.

Utah and New York spend the same amount of money per pupil, yet the test scores of students of Utah are much higher than those in New York.

But his chart says that only 28.6% of non-Hispanic white babies are born out of wedlock–that sounds like non-Hispanic whites are avoiding out of wedlock childbearing pretty hard.

They are avoiding childbearing altogether, I’m sorry to say.

 

[USMC_Convert]

Then I’d say NY teachers are doing an awesome job, since Utah has a total population of 2.9mill (2015) while NY has a total population of 19.7mill (2016). In fact it seems that Utah is just throwing money at students while NY needs to throw more?

Unless you think that maybe it’s the parents?

Perhaps, as educators have told me before, it really has a lot to do with the size of the class?

 

[Gertabelle]

Then I’d say NY teachers are doing an awesome job, since Utah has a total population of 2.9mill (2015) while NY has a total population of 19.7mill (2016). In fact it seems that Utah is just throwing money at students while NY needs to throw more?

Unless you think that maybe it’s the parents?

Perhaps, as educators have told me before, it really has a lot to do with the size of the class?

I would think that depends on the needs of the class.

Two years ago, we had a group of kindergartners who were so very, very low – as a group their academic, emotional, and economic needs were off the chart! – that their teacher once said to me, “I feel like I’m surrounded by 26 starving children, and I only have one small loaf of bread, and I have to decide which few children are going to eat today.” :sad_yes:

Now that teacher is a veteran and is brilliant with her kids! But there’s only so much one person can do with such a large group and such profound needs.

 

[Norseman82]

It’s happening in general because too many people want to throw money at the problem and not address the root cause.

Utah and New York spend the same amount of money per pupil, yet the test scores of students of Utah are much higher than those in New York.

They are avoiding childbearing altogether, I’m sorry to say.

What caught my eye on point 3 in the article is that society used to expect a guy to do the “right thing” and marry the girl he got pregnant; however, the practice of most priests in the US (I don’t know if it is limited to the US or is worldwide) is to NOT marry a couple if the woman is expecting for fear that it could be grounds for annulment. So, I wonder if this contributes to the problem.

 

[Xantippe]

What caught my eye on point 3 in the article is that society used to expect a guy to do the “right thing” and marry the girl he got pregnant; however, the practice of most priests in the US (I don’t know if it is limited to the US or is worldwide) is to NOT marry a couple if the woman is expecting for fear that it could be grounds for annulment. So, I wonder if this contributes to the problem.

Well, if the couple doesn’t want to “do the right thing” 6 months later when there’s an actual baby, they probably didn’t want to “do the right thing” at all.

 

[Norseman82]

Well, if the couple doesn’t want to “do the right thing” 6 months later when there’s an actual baby, they probably didn’t want to “do the right thing” at all.

OK, but could that be due to the lack of societal “encouraging”? I know people may disagree with the following point, but sometimes it takes a bit of “shaming” to do the right thing (for example, think of the reaction that occurs when people make racist statements online and in real life). And I think it is the societal “encouragement” (or lack thereof) that is being addressed in point three of the article.

 

[pensmama87]

OK, but could that be due to the lack of societal “encouraging”? I know people may disagree with the following point, but sometimes it takes a bit of “shaming” to do the right thing (for example, think of the reaction that occurs when people make racist statements online and in real life). And I think it is the societal “encouragement” (or lack thereof) that is being addressed in point three of the article.

IME, there is frequently a lot of encouragement to co-parent. The only situations I know of where marriage has actually been successful is when the couple were already serious about each other and talking marriage, but slipped up with chastity.

For couples I know who were casual and/or very young, marriage was a disaster.

“Shaming” also leads to abortion, especially if boyfriend suddenly makes himself scarce.

 

[Xantippe]

IME, there is frequently a lot of encouragement to co-parent. The only situations I know of where marriage has actually been successful is when the couple were already serious about each other and talking marriage, but slipped up with chastity.

For couples I know who were casual and/or very young, marriage was a disaster.

“Shaming” also leads to abortion, especially if boyfriend suddenly makes himself scarce.

Right.

Marriage is hard enough without being “meh” about one’s spouse from Day 1.

 

[Xantippe]

People who actually like each other don’t need to be bullied into marriage when there’s a surprise pregnancy.

 

[UbiCaritas]

IME, there is frequently a lot of encouragement to co-parent. The only situations I know of where marriage has actually been successful is when the couple were already serious about each other and talking marriage, but slipped up with chastity.

For couples I know who were casual and/or very young, marriage was a disaster.

“Shaming” also leads to abortion, especially if boyfriend suddenly makes himself scarce.

A close and very Catholic friend slipped up with her fiancé, and got pregnant. His side of the family heavily pressured them to abort–that family wasn’t Catholic. However, once they told her parents (very Catholic) what happened, friend’s mom started in with the “I can’t believe you’d be the sort of person who’d fornicate, I’m ashamed to have you as my daughter” stuff…and still hasn’t entirely knocked it off today, nearly ten years later, despite friend having repented, eventually gotten married in the Church, and gone on to be a wonderful example of a Catholic wife and mom. She swears that having to live with someone who’d greet her and the colicky baby at 2 AM with “if you insist on sinning like that, what do you expect?” probably has cleared her of any Purgatory time relating to the kid’s conception, but it didn’t exactly make her more inclined to follow Church teaching to have it drilled in how shameful she should be at every prenatal appointment, every late night feeding, etc.

 

[Xantippe]

A close and very Catholic friend slipped up with her fiancé, and got pregnant. His side of the family heavily pressured them to abort–that family wasn’t Catholic. However, once they told her parents (very Catholic) what happened, friend’s mom started in with the “I can’t believe you’d be the sort of person who’d fornicate, I’m ashamed to have you as my daughter” stuff…and still hasn’t entirely knocked it off today, nearly ten years later, despite friend having repented, eventually gotten married in the Church, and gone on to be a wonderful example of a Catholic wife and mom. She swears that having to live with someone who’d greet her and the colicky baby at 2 AM with “if you insist on sinning like that, what do you expect?” probably has cleared her of any Purgatory time relating to the kid’s conception, but it didn’t exactly make her more inclined to follow Church teaching to have it drilled in how shameful she should be at every prenatal appointment, every late night feeding, etc.

Wow–chastity prevents colic.

I did not know that.

 

[pensmama87]

A close and very Catholic friend slipped up with her fiancé, and got pregnant. His side of the family heavily pressured them to abort–that family wasn’t Catholic. However, once they told her parents (very Catholic) what happened, friend’s mom started in with the “I can’t believe you’d be the sort of person who’d fornicate, I’m ashamed to have you as my daughter” stuff…and still hasn’t entirely knocked it off today, nearly ten years later, despite friend having repented, eventually gotten married in the Church, and gone on to be a wonderful example of a Catholic wife and mom. She swears that having to live with someone who’d greet her and the colicky baby at 2 AM with “if you insist on sinning like that, what do you expect?” probably has cleared her of any Purgatory time relating to the kid’s conception, but it didn’t exactly make her more inclined to follow Church teaching to have it drilled in how shameful she should be at every prenatal appointment, every late night feeding, etc.

Oh, that’s so sad.

Babies are such a wonderful gift - if they were some sort of prize or reward, none of us would ever merit one.