American patriotism

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Whitacre_Girl

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I seem to be starting a lot of threads lately. I hope that’s okay, I’m just sorting through things that I don’t see talked about on here often. I also hope this is in the right forum. I couldn’t decide if it fit better here, or in the Politics area…

Something I have been thinking about is the necessity of patriotism to a catholic faith.

Basically, when I was in high school I was a very strong patriot. I thought America was the way it was reported to be in my history books. By the time I got into college, started experiencing the “freedom” we have, I quickly lost it. The death blow, so to speak, was when I learned fully about abortion in this country. By the time Obama was elected all patriotism for my country had died. I don’t even like saying the pledge of allegiance anymore. Tricky for me, because I work in a school. I just manage to find a reason to slip out of the classroom whenever the teachers lead out.

Is this sinful? I have almost no feelings of love for my country anymore, and my ardent patriotism has been replaced by deep sorrow for the soldiers who fought and died for our freedoms in the past just so we could elect officials who would take those rights away.

Is it a sin not to say the pledge of allegiance? I am not outspoken about any of this, and I haven’t told anyone about it (save for my husband, of course who is so discouraged that he feels the same way anymore) I just don’t feel comfortable anymore doing it. I have no real allegiance anymore to the United States. If it were taken over by someone else I probably wouldn’t care too much.

I know some people are probably going to be really offended by this, and I mean no offense. But how does one deal with these feelings? I just can not find myself loyal to a country that legalizes and celebrates a woman’s “right” to hire someone to murder her child! Please be gentle, in any case. :o
 
Is “patriotism” that important that it would be sinful to be done with it?
 
Hello! Be assured you are not the only one who has struggled with this issue. I live in a midwest city of about 135,000 and the patriotism issue is an almost daily struggle. I should say I am not Catholic but I am in the process of converting. My reply is my own conclusion as I understand scripture from a conservative Lutheran position. In my church it was common to have the American flag on the same level as the pulpit. Also there was a yearly celebration of the military in the church complete with uniforms and weapons. I was very offended by this and was not very popular after stating my opposition to it.

I think that national pride and patriotism is often a type of faith that is contrary to faith in God. Although I believe we need a military and that serving in the military is not sinful, I think mixing the Church and nationalism is. The most obvious example of why this is a bad idea is WWII and the Nazis. For me it really is a simple question of if your allegiance lies with the Church and Christ or your government? I hope this helps some and I would be interested to hear your thoughts.
 
I don´t think that Patriotism is a Christian value at all, and The Church does not require us to be patriots. However, that does not mean it is wrong either.

Many times patriotism divide countries and lead people to fight against each other in wars. Other times, like in sports, it unites us in cheering our fellow representatives (Think about Phelps). So, it´s a mixed bag.

Now, WE ARE CALLED to work for the kingdom mof God here on earth. We were placed in a specific part of our planet and God expects us to spread the Word and buil His kingdom. So, in a sense, we are mandated to make of each of our countries a better one. Like Africans have to fight agains corruption and hunger, Americans have to do it against a culture of death, selfishness and materialism. We are not called to LOVE this culture, we are called to fight it! That doesn´t mean being Anti-American, it means being a Catholic who wants a better country,
 
Whitacre, maybe you can look at it from a slightly different perspective, and be thankful for the many blessings we do have in this country - - freedom to worship, freedom to choose the good, relative prosperity, security, etc., especially as compared to much of the world, all the while praying that we as a people embrace the Truth of Christ and His Church in its policies (not referencing a theocracy, but within the bounds of our system). You can love that about the country without being jingoistic or supporting immorality.
 
Whitacre girl, you are not alone. I am going to school to get my degree so I can move overseas and teach English. I have absolutely no patriotism at all any more, and probably haven’t since I was a teenager.

Wasn’t there a pope in the last hundred years or so who made some sort of statement or encyclical or something against nationalism? Can someone help me out here? :confused:
 
We do need to be faithful citizens, but not to the point that crosses into patriotism/nationalism… I phrase it that way because the line is awfully fuzzy these days. I know people who have adopted the attitude “my country, right or wrong,” meaning they support our government regardless of moral implications. This is nothing short of idolatry. I do love this country, and do not have a strong desire to live elsewhere, but at the same time, I am critical of the Godlessness of society. Do I love my country? Yes. In this I am a patriot. Do I think my country is superior to all others? No. That is nationalism.
 
Thanks for the thread. I was thinking of starting something like it a few days ago.

My take on it was a bit different, to view it from the point of “Why do Americans tend to make patriotism a theological virtue more than other nationalities?”

As a person with 3 identifiable nationalities but only 2 passports I wonder about it, a lot.

When I was a Lutheran pastor in Canada, in an immigrant congregation, I was often caught in a trap of some of the people wanting to keep the old ethnicity strong always wanted to wrap Christ is a flag.

While Finland is a nominally Christian country, churches don’t have flags, except on some national days like Independence Day, and not always then. The Gospel and the Liturgical calendar take precedence over the National holiday.

I recall, growing up in the U.S., that often national events would be the primary theme of the day, rather than the Christian year.

Looking forward to more posts, especially from outside of the U.S.
 
One can be patriotic and at the same be unhappy about some of your country’s laws and policies or about the direction it is headed. I have great admiration for those who made the U.S. the beacon of freedom it is, and have deep respect for the rights and freedoms that people still enjoy here. At the same time I can disagree with a particular law or action that my country takes, but that does not lessen my patriotism (or at least it should not be viewed that way).

You may not agree with a law or policy due to moral concerns, but you still have the right (and the responsibility) to speak your mind and to try and change it. That is the truly wonderful part about the U.S. And to me, partiotism encompasses speaking out against something that is wrong, even if it is your own country in the wrong. Patriotism in our democracy should not be blind obedience, but a desire to do what is best for your country and its people.

At the same time, our country is not required to make laws and policies that agree with the doctrines or beliefs of any one church or religion. Although many people say it, the U.S. is not a “Christian nation”. It is a nation formed mostly by Christians who imparted their Christian values and beliefs into our basic laws and processes.

When our Constitution was being debated, there were many who didn’t think the amendments that became our “Bill of Rights” were needed. Perhaps some felt that we would apply Christian principles of fairness and equality to what we did and there wasn’t a need to have it spelled out. It is a good thing that they were included, for otherwise the discussion we are having right now could have been outlawed, just as it is in some countries today.

Our country, our Constitution and laws, and our system of government may not be perfect, but overall it is much better than anything else out there.
 
Maria65 said:
Wasn’t there a pope in the last hundred years or so who made some sort of statement or encyclical or something against nationalism? Can someone help me out here?
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Patriotism and nationalism are not the same thing. I am a patriot, and it is precisely because I am a patriot that many things about my nation disturb me. A patriot can hold up his nation’s ideals as standards to be worked toward, and rightly criticizes his nation when it fails to live up to those ideals.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
Thanks everyone for your (name removed by moderator)ut. It’s good to hear that I am not alone in all of this.

It’s just weird for me because I am politically a conservative, and one thing people like me are noted for is patriotism. My dad, my family, all of them are really patriotic. Mine died, and I dare not tell anyone LOL.

Basically I feel that the America that I thought was so great, that allowed the freedoms to be what we want, and choose what we want for our lives, faith, and morals is gone.
 
Whitacre_Girl said:
Thanks everyone for your (name removed by moderator)ut. It’s good to hear that I am not alone in all of this.

It’s just weird for me because I am politically a conservative, and one thing people like me are noted for is patriotism. My dad, my family, all of them are really patriotic. Mine died, and I dare not tell anyone LOL.

Basically I feel that the America that I thought was so great, that allowed the freedoms to be what we want, and choose what we want for our lives, faith, and morals is gone.
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Sometimes patriotism is like being a sports fan. When your team is in a slump it is hard to cheer them on. Remember that what you studied in school is what America is what we are goin g through is a period of un-american activity. Remember the pledge is to the flag and the constitution for which it stands. The Constitution is valid and good despite the fact it is being ignored by the current administration.
 
royal_archer said:
Sometimes patriotism is like being a sports fan. When your team is in a slump it is hard to cheer them on. Remember that what you studied in school is what America is what we are goin g through is a period of un-american activity. Remember the pledge is to the flag and the constitution for which it stands. The Constitution is valid and good despite the fact it is being ignored by the current administration.
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Very well said. The biggest problem I have with the pledge is when we get to the line: “With liberty and justice for all.” this is such a lie. 😦

There is no justice for the unborn.
 
Whitacre_Girl said:
Very well said. The biggest problem I have with the pledge is when we get to the line: “With liberty and justice for all.” this is such a lie. 😦

There is no justice for the unborn.
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Think of it as a prayer of hope.

You may want to start it off with something like "Dear God, please help us as I…
 
If you take it more in the same idea of a shirt that says “World’s greatest dad.” Now you know to say a person is the world’s greatest dad compared to all other dads, would probably far from the truth. Really it means more that probably for the given person that gives that dad the shirt, as far as the person is concerned, is “world’s greatest dad,” and that is not to say that there are no other great dads. The dad probably helped shaped the person and cared for that person. The dad did things right and wrong.

I think the proper way to view patriotism is that it does mean, “my country right or wrong.” Not in the same light as was said in an earlier post, but clearly saying here the country is right and here it is wrong. Regardless you do have respect for it as the place that helped to form you. That is also not to say there are other great countries, as a matter it is a good thing if they feel the same for their country, just as if you gave your dad a “world’s greatest dad” shirt, while still feeling glad that someone else feels the same way about their dad.

For me, I’m in contact with others from other nations, and they have been shaped by a different culture. I’m happy for them, just as I am happy for being an American. I hope they do feel a kinship with their nation, and where they feel there are set backs with the country, they acknowlde them, and hope that improves.
 
Harri_Laaksonen said:
Thanks for the thread. I was thinking of starting something like it a few days ago.

My take on it was a bit different, to view it from the point of “Why do Americans tend to make patriotism a theological virtue more than other nationalities?”
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I’ve wondered about this too. Many times I see a thread purportedly about a theological question, and it ends up discussing the Declaration of Independence as if it is a religious document, or with an idea that American values and Catholic values are somehow identical. I find it odd.
 
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