Americans are 40% poorer than before the recession

[WilT]

Recession hasn’t gotten away as many would like one to think. We are still in recession and this article affirms that. Are we in America a two class system? Rich and Poor? It a sad reality which I know that many Americans will chose to ignore or deny. Let’s pray for justice and love in America so we can continue on as the best example of freedom in this world and let us continue to pray for God’s continued blessing of America.

msn.com/en-us/money/savingandinvesting/americans-are-40percent-poorer-than-before-the-recession/ar-BBgIjIN?ocid=ansmarketwatch11

 

[rfournier103]

Recession hasn’t gotten away as many would like one to think. We are still in recession and this article affirms that. Are we in America a two class system? Rich and Poor? It a sad reality which I know that many Americans will chose to ignore or deny. Let’s pray for justice and love in America so we can continue on as the best example of freedom in this world and let us continue to pray for God’s continued blessing of America.

msn.com/en-us/money/savingandinvesting/americans-are-40percent-poorer-than-before-the-recession/ar-BBgIjIN?ocid=ansmarketwatch11

I believe that Americans are 40% poorer than before the recession. I’ve lived it.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

“The Great Recession, fueled by the crises in the housing and financial markets, was universally hard on the net worth of American families,”

And the bill now up for vote contains a provision that would loosen a key financial regulation on big banks.

 

[boomerang]

I’m sure it’s true. My property taxes keep going up outrageously. I’m horrified at the prices of food every time I go to the grocery store. The price of meat, nuts, and most produce is impossibly ridiculous. The only thing left that’s affordable are the ‘foods’ that are extremely unhealthy. I can’t live on ramen noodles, although I like ramen, my guilty pleasure. Why is no one in Washington addressing inflation?

 

[rfournier103]

And the bill now up for vote contains a provision that would loosen a key financial regulation on big banks.

A sure sign of bad things to come.

Why is no one in Washington addressing inflation?

Because nobody in Washington cares. It does not affect them personally, so why lift a finger? Our politicians have turned their backs on us.

 

[WilT]

I’m sure it’s true. My property taxes keep going up outrageously. I’m horrified at the prices of food every time I go to the grocery store. The price of meat, nuts, and most produce is impossibly ridiculous. The only thing left that’s affordable are the ‘foods’ that are extremely unhealthy. I can’t live on ramen noodles, although I like ramen, my guilty pleasure. Why is no one in Washington addressing inflation?

Good Q. I don’t know. Perhaps I’ll ask that Q. on my next thread.

 

[Sunbreak]

Yes, I believe we are still in a recession and have never recovered from it. Even though gas prices are going down, this is probably just temporary. Everything else is going up. Inflation at 1.7% the last year? You got to be kidding. We have groceries going up more than that and at the same time packaging has been downsized. Rents in my area have gone up dramatically the last year to compensate for the last few years where they were kept low. Health insurance costs are up. Dividends and interest rates are still low for those trying to make money from savings. So, where is the recovery?

 

[edwest2]

The calculated stock market collapse was due to individuals creating things like “credit default swaps,” artificially inflating housing values as if infinity was the limit, and giving sub-prime housing loans to people who could barely afford to pay the minimum on their monthly credit card bill. A banker who specialized in mortgages told me: “What happened to the rules?” She went on to say that people use to have to jump through hoops to get a mortgage, then almost anybody could.

Stock Market watchers at the Ford Motor Company began to notice unusual Stock Market activity. They alerted their superiors and various financial instruments were rapidly transferred, resulting in Ford being the only one of the Big Three automakers to not ask for a government - meaning taxpayer - bailout.

Only now are the institutions and some individuals involved being brought in to account for their conduct. Fines have been levied, laws have been passed, restrictions imposed, and a few other things. But “there’s no such thing as having too much money.” Alan Greenspan was shocked - just shocked - about the whole thing. He was depicted in a political cartoon seated at a table at a hearing. There was a firing raging behind him and on the table was an open box of matches with the word ‘greed’ written on it.

Face it folks, the peasants can’t be allowed to be the Middle Class again. Some of us might start competing with the wealthy noblemen and landowners. We need to be kept in our place and keep our mouths shut.

Ed

 

[JSSD]

Because nobody in Washington cares. It does not affect them personally, so why lift a finger? Our politicians have turned their backs on us.

I disagree. They care very much. A dependent class votes reliably. Both parties want to jockey for these votes, but one is much better at it.

 

[Timothysis]

Stock Market watchers at the Ford Motor Company began to notice unusual Stock Market activity. They alerted their superiors and various financial instruments were rapidly transferred, resulting in Ford being the only one of the Big Three automakers to not ask for a government - meaning taxpayer - bailout.

Ford spent years closing plants and laying off workers in order to stay competitive and to maintain their market share. They put themselves in the black before 2008. They did not need a bailout.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I have said this before, but on other threads, so I’ll say it here.

My grandfather, who lived through the Depression, was fond of saying “…you have to realize that while 15-25% of the population was unemployed, that meant 75-85% were employed, and some were better off than they were before.” He lost his farm early on in it, but later recouped when he realized there were enough people with money to buy a particular farm product (strawberries, then a luxury in the cities) seasonally. So, he rented five acres and started over…this time with strawberries instead of the commodities everybody else went broke trying to raise and sell and which he himself had gone broke trying to raise and sell. He did quite well.

If, today, there was no welfare, as was the case in the 1930s, we would be seeing soup lines miles and miles long. Welfare blurs the picture.

I think there has been a recovery…for some. If, for instance, you didn’t panic in 2009 and get out of the market, you have done very well since then. If you didn’t, as a rancher, go broke in 2008 or 2011 or 2012, you’re raking it in right now.

Even in the Depression, there were ups and downs. People went to work. Stocks fell, rose again, fell again, rose again. GM didn’t go bankrupt, nor did Chrysler.

For most ordinary people, there has been no recovery.

 

[SuperLuigi]

For most ordinary people, there has been no recovery.

Ordinary people (ie the Middle Class) need to pay attention. Regardless of what the left says, the poor will always something and the rich will usually be able to skate around things.

The problem is that too many ordinary people are convinced its their lot in life to be bludgeoned by the federal government----as though its some kind of noble sacrifice because they love their kids and family members/friends who benefit from government.

 

[JSSD]

If, today, there was no welfare, as was the case in the 1930s, we would be seeing soup lines miles and miles long. Welfare blurs the picture.

I’m not so sure I agree. The flip side to this is that if our taxes weren’t what they are to pay for these entitlements, we could do a lot more investing (job creating) and spending (buying products we’d need someone to produce).

Which is more efficient and dignifying? That, or funneling those taxes through a third entity or entities (government & agencies) before giving a direct handout?

 

[Ridgerunner]

I’m not so sure I agree. The flip side to this is that if our taxes weren’t what they are to pay for these entitlements, we could do a lot more investing (job creating) and spending (buying products we’d need someone to produce).

Which is more efficient and dignifying? That, or funneling those taxes through a third entity or entities (government & agencies) before giving a direct handout?

I’m not arguing in favor of widespread use of welfare. I’m just saying that what we would otherwise regard as a severe recession or even depression is masked by the fact that people go into the grocery store with SNAP cards instead of standing in line for a bowl of soup. If those very same people were standing in lines blocks long, we would be alarmed, and perhaps should be right now. Add to that the fact that even in the depression there were a lot of people, even most, who were little affected by it just like now, and it is not a formula for joyousness.

In no way do I think this is a good situation.

 

[JSSD]

I apologize and am following your point.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I apologize and am following your point.

No apology needed. I took no offense.

I realize I might be entirely wrong about our being in a “masked recession or depression”, but I truly do think we are.

You know, there were people in the depression who made a lot of money, depression or no depression. The stock market had some really significant “ups” during it. Some businesses went under, but most didn’t. Far more people were employed than unemployed. Some people found themselve suddenly better off than they were before it. I remember Will Rogers’ quip that “America will be the first country on earth to go to the poorhouse in an automobile”. So should auto sales today impress me? None of the things we see cited as evidence of a present “recovery” didn’t also happen then. None of the things we see cited as evidence of “hard times” then aren’t also happening now. They’re just not as obvious.

 

[JSSD]

I don’t disagree that the economy isn’t where it could be. I also think some of our metrics are artifact or inflated. Some are simply the last refuge for money which is another form of disproportionate valuation. We wonder why things aren’t more stable, but we don’t create a stable environment in terms of taxation and regulation for business.

I’m someone who never thinks it is as good or as bad as the pundits say, though. It very much makes me roll my eyes at what some think are “poor” Americans, comparatively speaking. On welfare in this country beats “rich” in some others.

 

[Mickey_Finn]

I don’t disagree that the economy isn’t where it could be. I also think some of our metrics are artifact or inflated. Some are simply the last refuge for money which is another form of disproportionate valuation. We wonder why things aren’t more stable, but we don’t create a stable environment in terms of taxation and regulation for business.

I’m someone who never thinks it is as good or as bad as the pundits say, though. It very much makes me roll my eyes at what some think are “poor” Americans, comparatively speaking. On welfare in this country beats “rich” in some others.

Curious point of view to say the least.

The melt down was caused chiefly by de-regulation of the banking industry. Strengthening Glass-Steagal rather than replacing it with Gramm, Leach, Bliley. Would have prevented the need for bailouts. Even the folks how brought GLB forward now admit that it was disastrous in the end. Jobs shifting over seas, the housing bubble bursting, and a variety of criminal activities were straws for the camels back. The governments of George Bush, and Barack Obama took steps to ensure the worlds economy didn’t slide off of the cliff. But they failed to enact any meaningful legislation to ensure it didn’t happen again.

Now while wages for workers are low, and many prices are rising. Inflation is historically low. usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/

Most countries are experiencing a shift towards blaming the poor for the worlds problems. Blaming the poor is the height of cowardice.

Some may think that propping up our ailing auto industry was an act of support for the workers. I would say that it did a lot to help my state of Michigan, and our neighbors south, and west. But it really is in the nations interest to have a viable manufacturing industry. The weapon of war requires building after all.

What can we do besides wasting our phone minutes calling our reps? Buy American, and spend wisely. The lifestyle of conspicuous consumption should be avoided.

The Shale oil we are bringing up is going to be a game changer for our country. I would say that it will strengthen us while weakening some of our greatest competitors over seas. Who knows it may even help to bring Russia back into the fold of civilized nations.

ATB

 

[JSSD]

I’m not willing to blame either end of the spectrum: poor or the legislators. $0.02 I’m certainly not willing to entirely blame regulation or lack of regulation either, but I’m a huge free market guy and I believe in actually “minding my business,” that is, paying attention. I read the prospectus and vote the proxy. I don’t invest in that which I do not understand. I recognize the benefits of regulation, but I also recognize the tremendous costs they impose upon us as well.

Respectfully, don’t you think it is curious to bemoan “shifting jobs over seas” and yet pretend to be “for the poor?” I do. $0.02

Likewise, “Buy American, Spend Wisely” can often be an oxymoron. I was personally disgusted with the auto-bailouts and am done with the “big 3.” It didn’t prop up the auto industry, it propped up labor. The fact is, the auto industry all across the South was just fine, it just so happens the owners are international or multinational. You can be an owner yourself. Well, so are the Big 3, ultimately. My “American” diesel pickup truck was made in Mexico, and that was several years pre-bailout. My two “German” cars were both made in Germany. (And the difference in quality & performance is incomparable). So the real tragedy is that by not allowing GM and Chrysler to fold, we’ve diverted precious resources to the less efficient, almost certainly at the opportunity cost of the more efficient.

I should support those guys for reasons of war? Are we so convinced we are the only potential manufacturer of war machines, while we meanwhile sell arms all over the world? I don’t believe the next war will be fought with tanks and jeeps incidentally, and even if they did, our own vehicles are junk:
autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/army-selling-humvees-to-the-public-for-the-first-time-—-but-there-s-a-catch-214533984.html Ask any of your military buddies how long these are lasting.

No, I believe mutual respect based upon free trade prevents wars.
Having said all that, I do agree with your thoughts on our own oil. Provided we are allowed to get it, which is always a battle as well. But we’re quite a bit off topic with this.

 

[Mickey_Finn]

I’m not willing to blame either end of the spectrum: poor or the legislators. $0.02 I’m certainly not willing to entirely blame regulation or lack of regulation either, but I’m a huge free market guy and I believe in actually “minding my business,” that is, paying attention. I read the prospectus and vote the proxy. I don’t invest in that which I do not understand. I recognize the benefits of regulation, but I also recognize the tremendous costs they impose upon us as well.

Respectfully, don’t you think it is curious to bemoan “shifting jobs over seas” and yet pretend to be “for the poor?” I do. $0.02

Likewise, “Buy American, Spend Wisely” can often be an oxymoron. I was personally disgusted with the auto-bailouts and am done with the “big 3.” It didn’t prop up the auto industry, it propped up labor. The fact is, the auto industry all across the South was just fine, it just so happens the owners are international or multinational. You can be an owner yourself. Well, so are the Big 3, ultimately. My “American” diesel pickup truck was made in Mexico, and that was several years pre-bailout. My two “German” cars were both made in Germany. (And the difference in quality & performance is incomparable). So the real tragedy is that by not allowing GM and Chrysler to fold, we’ve diverted precious resources to the less efficient, almost certainly at the opportunity cost of the more efficient.

I should support those guys for reasons of war? Are we so convinced we are the only potential manufacturer of war machines, while we meanwhile sell arms all over the world? I don’t believe the next war will be fought with tanks and jeeps incidentally, and even if they did, our own vehicles are junk:
autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/army-selling-humvees-to-the-public-for-the-first-time-—-but-there-s-a-catch-214533984.html Ask any of your military buddies how long these are lasting.

No, I believe mutual respect based upon free trade prevents wars.
Having said all that, I do agree with your thoughts on our own oil. Provided we are allowed to get it, which is always a battle as well. But we’re quite a bit off topic with this.

I don’t find any logic in your response. Especially where you task free trade with preventing wars. For the portion where you seem to slight American made autos. The fact is that the EPA’s regulations have our vehicles running at standards we only dreamed of in the past. My own heavily used Chevy Truck has over 200,000 miles. Twice the expected lifespan of my first 1979 model. Obviously it is much safer as well. Using anything German as an example in this day and age shows a peculiar insular point of view. Germany a nation ran by banks with their enforced austerity seem to be telling the rest of Europe and the odd American to spend us out of our troubles. No thanks.

ATB