Amoris laetitia chapter 8 is so confusing!

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mrsdizzyd said:
The only “certain situations” that change things are situations were validity of previous marriages are in question or situations were the couple cannot separate and must live together as brother and sister.
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This seems pretty clearly stated. One can hope that magisterial statements issued in such confusing times would be so clear.
 
That doesn’t really solve anything.
 
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AUGUSTINE1102 said:
the faithful under a dissenting modernist like Cardinal Cupich or Bishop McElroy are going to get a very different take than under a faithful prelate like Cardinal Burke, Bishop Olmstead, or Bishop Poprocki.
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If they agree with the pope, they are “dissenters”? And if they disagree, they are “faithful”? That is not the conservative Catholicism I was taught.
AUGUSTINE1102 said:
A.k.a “Divorced and remarried” don’t get false hopes up that the Church is changing on this matter.
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Because hope is such a bad thing, people need to be kept from it? Many people have already been so scandalized by the Church’s intransigence, false hopes are not going to discourage them more than they already are.
 
JimG said:
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mrsdizzyd:
The only “certain situations” that change things are situations were validity of previous marriages are in question or situations were the couple cannot separate and must live together as brother and sister.
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This seems pretty clearly stated. One can hope that magisterial statements issued in such confusing times would be so clear.
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Does the phrase “living as brother and sister” appear in AL? … or “living in continence” or “abstaining from sex”?
 
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angel12 said:
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rcwitness:
I already told you… I don’t need to read it.
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Sure. Why bother reading something to see if your repeated criticisms are true?
:roll_eyes:
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I’m curious why we should care so much about AL’s pastoral concern, when it does not acknowledge the call for irregular marriages to stop illicit sexual relations?
 
AUGUSTINE1102 said:
We just finished reading Amoris laetitia for our marriage group. The overall reception was 50/50. Some liked parts others did not. 100% of the couples thought chapter 8 was confusing and seemed to put forth confusing statements on conscience. We had two trained theologians in the group and they both thought it was a poorly written document, especially chapter 8. They said it is attempting to put forth ambiguous language because that gives dissenters room to maneuver. They recommended Familiarize Consortia which is much clearer, consistent with tradition, and written by a saint. What say you? In particular ch. 8 and it’s take on conscience.
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I agree with it being confusing.
 
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rcwitness said:
I’m curious why we should care so much about AL’s pastoral concern, when it does not acknowledge the call for irregular marriages to stop illicit sexual relations?
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I am curious why the only thing you seem to care about is other people’s sexual activity. I am curious, but I don’t actually want to know…
 
ConstantLearner said:
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rcwitness:
Who is it written for??
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AL was written to address pastoral care of families and the importance of love in family life.
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Yes. It is primarily for pastors. Pastors of the Catholic Church were very confused, divided, and in want of clarification.

This isn’t a matter of opinion, it is a simple fact.

Pope Francis chose to remain silent regarding any explanation. Instead making comments like “read it from first chapter to last”. I find that rather rude to say to your fellow Bishops.

I, personally, don’t care to read it at all. If Cardinals and Bishops were debating and seeking clarity, why should I assume to know the mind of Pope Francis!?!?!?!

I will stick to the clear Teachings of the Church. I lost a lot of confidence that our local pastors are very adapt at discerning spirits, marriage issues, and culpability and then guiding them according to the doctrines of our Catholic faith!

This document attempts to entrust even more to pastors. We are already lacking numbers of pastors.
 
whatistrue said:
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rcwitness:
I’m curious why we should care so much about AL’s pastoral concern, when it does not acknowledge the call for irregular marriages to stop illicit sexual relations?
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I am curious why the only thing you seem to care about is other people’s sexual activity. I am curious, but I don’t actually want to know…
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Are you aware, at all, of the controversy that AL caused among Bishops, Cardinals, theologians, and many others regarding clarification of how it approaches couples in irregular marriages who are sexually active???
 
Not relevant to my statement. And I still don’t actually want to know.
 
I didn’t ask. Not much point in stressing the need for reading comprehension to one who doesn’t see the need to actually read something before commenting on it.
 
I’m addressing the controversy of the document. You can pretend it doesn’t exist, if you want.

“How can you disagree with a question?”
  • Cardinal George Pell, Prefect of the Vatican Secretariat for the Economy
Sexual activity was at the heart of the concerns of Cardinals, Bishops, Priests, theologians, and Catholic laity.
 
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The only thing that concerns me is that the Church still believes the words of Jesus about marriage, divorce, and remarriage, and teaches that doctrine. I presume that has not changed. Either a marriage is valid from the beginning or it is not. If a marriage is valid, divorce cannot undo it, and a second marriage cannot be contracted.
 
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