Amount of Temporal Punishment for Mortal Sin?

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Hello,

I was wondering if there was any way we could know exactly how much penance a person must do to remove the temporal punishment due to a single forgiven mortal sin, without the reception of an Indulgence?

Thanks for any insight!
 
There isn’t a definitive universal answer, other than a plenary indulgence.
 
The ancient penitential canons were an attempt to capture this, but really only God can truly measure our sins. We expiate our sins by indulgences and acts of charity and other penitential works, and of course doing the minimal penance prescribed by the Church throughout the year and given by our confessors. But most of all, we expiate our sins by “patiently bearing sufferings and trials of all kinds and, when the day comes, serenely facing death” (CCC 1473).
 
We needn’t look at the remission of temporal punishment for sin in too mechanical a way. The Church has clearly tried to move away from that by no longer listing indulgences in terms of the number of days off of purgatory but rather simply distinguishing between partial and plenary.

There really is no need to get hung up on “exactly” how much we need to do. That’s likely only going to cause us to either seek to do the bare minimum or else be scrupulous that we haven’t done enough.

It’s also not necessary to remove indulgences from the equation. Indulgences are specifically what the Church gives us to assist us in remitting the temporal punishment due to sin. Why look for the Church to create another category of penances to do exactly the same thing?
 
So maybe I’m having trouble understanding what temporal punishment is. It is punishment that we will have to endure in purgatory for the amount of expiation we didn’t do here, right?

Or is temporal punishment an attachment that we get from committing a sin. Ex: A person often overeats and now they have an attachment to food.

Is temporal punishment like real life punishment? Does God allow me to get sick or lose a job so that it can be the penance for my sins?

Please help.
 
Joe_5859 said:
simply distinguishing between partial and plenary.
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Just to add, we shouldn’t think of partial indulgences in too nebulous a way either (not saying you were). Partial indulgences have a distinct “value” depending on the indulgenced act.
Since by their acts the faithful can obtain, in addition to the merit which is the principal fruit of the act, a further remission of temporal punishment in proportion to the degree to which the charity of the one performing the act is greater, and in proportion to the degree to which the act itself is performed in a more perfect way, it has been considered fitting that this remission of temporal punishment which the Christian faithful acquire through an action should serve as the measurement for the remission of punishment which the ecclesiastical authority bountifully adds by way of partial indulgence.
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n. 5—The faithful who at least with a contrite heart perform an action to which a partial indulgence is attached obtain, in addition to the remission of temporal punishment acquired by the action itself, an equal remission of punishment through the intervention of the Church.
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https://w2.vatican.va/content/paul-...-vi_apc_01011967_indulgentiarum-doctrina.html
 
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I used to count some specific amount for my sins
The paranoia sparked my depression

In my opinion
The length of punishment suits the details of the sin
Aka minor stealing is less than porn or sex sins
And murder is above that
(Don’t take that as fact or true just my opinion)

But my advise is not to worry about how much punishment you have
Made me want to die and go to purgatory rather than face it on earth

If we make it too purgatory
People can reduce our punishment and we can’t sin so make it longer
So it really doesn’t matter since heaven is guaranteed after

Also we have a great miracle that is Divine Mercy Sunday
Which I’ve never been (wanted to since 14)but really should
Just realizing it existed gave me a peace
 
Such trials can be temporal punishment for sin (and some souls, like St. Paul, suffer for others because we are all one body (see Col. 1:24)–that’s where the power of indulgences comes from) but they can also do other things for our benefit–and remember, all things work to good for those who love God (see Rom. 8:28). Here’s how St. Thomas More explains how God uses tribulations to ultimately bring us to salvation:

St. Thomas More, from his “Dialogue of Comfort in a Time of Tribulation” (written while he was imprisoned in the tower of London)
If we lay first, for a sure ground, a very fast faith, whereby we believe to be true all that the scripture saith (understood truly, as the old holy doctors declare it and as the spirit of God instructeth his Catholic Church), then shall we consider tribulation as a gracious gift of God, a gift that he specially gave his special friends; a thing that in scripture is highly commended and praised; a thing of which the contrary, long continued, is perilous; a thing which, if God send it not, men have need to put upon themselves and seek by penance; a thing that helpeth to purge our past sins; a thing that preserveth us from sins that otherwise would come; a thing that causeth us to set less by the world; a thing that much diminisheth our pains in purgatory; a thing that much increaseth our final reward in heaven; the thing with which all his apostles followed him thither; the thing to which our Saviour exhorteth all men; the thing without which he saith we be not his disciples; the thing without which no man can get to heaven.
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See also Hebrews 11:4-11

These are definitely hard sayings–I’m not saying it’s easy to accept when you’re going through a hard time.
 
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In the most basic sense, temporal (meaning “time”) punishment refers to the consequences for sin that are not eternal. When we sin, there are eternal consequences and temporal consequences.

God forgives the eternal consequences in Confession. Only He can do that because we sin against the infinite and eternal God.

But the temporal consequences remain. I think this can take the form of something like attachment to food for those who overeat. It’s the natural consequence of the sinful act.

I think sometimes that can look like real life punishment. I don’t know that I’d say God is allowing me to suffer because of my sins unless there is some direct connection (i.e. I got sick because I’m eating nothing but candy or I lost my job because I was stealing from my workplace). I’d rather look at it as, “I am suffering, so I might as well offer up that suffering in reparation for my sins.”
 
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“TheDumbFox said:
So maybe I’m having trouble understanding what temporal punishment is. It is punishment that we will have to endure in purgatory for the amount of expiation we didn’t do here, right?
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This is true as far as purgatory goes. Punishment considered in itself is a consequence or effect of every sin we commit. We have broken God’s law and so to restore order in justice punishment or a penalty is inflicted. The penalty that accrues to sin is to satisfy or atone for the fault committed and this is medicinal punishment. If a person steals $500 from another person, than in justice the thief is punished in some way such as imprisonment until he/she returns $500 back to the owner or something equal to $500 to restore a measure of equality. The temporal punishment in relation to sin which is what we are talking about here is a penalty or debt that accrues to every sin that has or can have the effect of atoning or satisfying for the fault or sin committed, to restore order or some measure of justice and equality between the offended and the offender. And, again, this is medicinal punishment.
Or is temporal punishment an attachment that we get from committing a sin. Ex: A person often overeats and now they have an attachment to food.
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This is a form of punishment in a certain sense but it doesn’t have atoning or satisfactory value, i.e., it is not medicinal punishment for the improvement or health of the person but makes the person worse and sicker. I mean we can’t atone for overeating by overeating some more or we can’t atone for stealing by stealing some more. I think fasting from food would be a way of atoning for overeating. Just as we can develop habits of virtue so we can develop habits of vice. For example, addiction to porn is a bad habit. Acts of sin can breed more acts of sin and this is a kind of punishment in a way but this is not the kind of punishment or penalty we are referring to when speaking of indulgences, for example, or atoning and satisfying punishment which is medicinal. For example, Adam and Eve incurred as punishments for their sin death of the body and suffering such as weariness in work, child labor, hunger and thirst, sickness, and such like. These are medicinal penalties from God that we cannot help to have so that if we accept and suffer them from God with the right intention and in atonement for our sins than these sufferings are meritorious as satisfying for our sins.
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(continued)
From TheDumbFox:
Is temporal punishment like real life punishment? Does God allow me to get sick or lose a job so that it can be the penance for my sins?
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Jesus began his preaching with 'Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand". Penance is a virtue and the third integral part of penance is atoning or satisfying for our sins. Jesus also said ‘Whoever does not pick up his cross and follow me cannot be my disciple’. To follow Christ is to follow the way of the cross which Christ redeemed the human race by and we do this by keeping God’s commandments and faithfully fulfilling our toilsome daily duties according to our state in life. Every good act we perform in the state of grace whether it be a thought, word, or deed has a meritorious and satisfactory value to it such as Genesis315 quoted from the Church’s constitution or book on the doctrine of indulgences.

Everything that happens to us from without and beyond our control as it were we ought to take as coming from the hand of God and his providence. Many things happen to us from without even from other people that may cause suffering to us and we can and ought to accept all this from the hand of God in a spirit of penance and not only for our own sins but also in atonement for the sins of others, such as Jesus did for us, living or dead such as the souls in purgatory. But it may be that God may permit us to suffer something though not necessarily in punishment for our own sins but for the benefit or the sins of others, living or dead, the salvation of souls, or to perfect us through purification and draw us closer to Christ. The suffering we endure will certainly not go to waste whether we are atoning for our own sins or for the sins of others or both for we believe in the doctrine of the communion of saints.
 
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semper_catholicus said:
There isn’t a definitive universal answer, other than a plenary indulgence.
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Yeah, I think this is the correct answer. It’s not like we can right a mathematical equation for the OP’s question. But, we can consider the following. St Peter said that charity covereth a multitude of sins (1 Peter 4:8). It’s possible that a single act of perfect contrition which is inspired by supernatural charity can remove all temporal punishment from a person’s soul and the eternal punishment too if a person is in a state of mortal sin. Again, depending on the intensity and quality of a person’s contrition and confession, a single reception of the sacrament of penance can remove all temporal punishment provided that the penitent also performs the penance the priest gives. It is also possible that attending one Mass can remove all temporal punishment (eternal punishment too) from a person’s soul depending on the person’s devotion, interior dispositions, and cooperation with God’s grace. For the sacrifice of the Mass is the same sacrifice that Christ made on the cross which sacrifice is the propitiation not only for our own sins but also for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2). Jesus told the good thief on the cross ‘Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise’ (Luke 23:43).
 
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Thanks everybody. This info really cleared up some of the questions that I had,
 
I dont think meccano set conceptual thinking goes too far when it comes to religion.
It is essentially about relationships not some sort of video game rules and esoteric properties or upskilling rewards 🙂

When a relationship completely fails no amount of “punishment” can restore it.
With God even our desire to restore that relationship is gifted to us by Him. All we can do is accept or deny that actual grace of repentance.
If our repentance is perfect there will be no temporal debt due upon death…though there is always negative karma in this life when we make bad choices regardless of repentance or not.
 
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I know for myself, as I have struggled with masturbation and pornographic images since I was 12YO and now I’m 20YO, I know I have made lots of temporal damage and I’m very sorry for it. But being sorry isn’t enough, it is to be forgiven in confession by Jesus but also I have spread sin in the world and we are all called to help correct this. Otherwise we have to correct these temporal issues in Purgatory.

So now that I do not feel enslaved to these sins anymore, I have made it a goal of mine to help as many men and women who also have or are struggling with this issue. At my college I have talked with groups about the damage of porn and how to overcome it and I am now actively trying to offer advice and help people here on CAF with these issues. I believe this helping of others is a great way to make right the sins I have spread into the world by my actions and I hope these lessen by temporal punishments!

So I would suggest, if you have been in mortal sin, whatever sin it is, try and think of how you can either help others struggling with that sin or how you can help the world heal from the sin of this mortal sin. Helping others with this mortal sin is a great way to not just serve penance but to actively try and help fix what we have done!
 
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