An Alternative to Damnation

[Awake]

Catholic theology teaches there are two paths one can take in the afterlife. One is Heaven (either going directly, or taking a detour through Purgatory) and the other is Hell.

One goes to Heaven by the grace of God if they believe in Jesus. One goes to Hell if they have committed a mortal sin without confessing.

Why is there not a third option for those who don’t want to go to hell, but are also barred from Heaven because they don’t believe in Jesus or have committed a mortal sin?

It would seem that a loving alternative to damnation would be for God to simply make that person’s soul cease to exist. Why is this not an option?

 

[thistle]

Catholic theology teaches there are two paths one can take in the afterlife. One is Heaven (either going directly, or taking a detour through Purgatory) and the other is Hell.

One goes to Heaven by the grace of God if they believe in Jesus. One goes to Hell if they have committed a mortal sin without confessing.

Why is there not a third option for those who don’t want to go to hell, but are also barred from Heaven because they don’t believe in Jesus or have committed a mortal sin?

It would seem that a loving alternative to damnation would be for God to simply make that person’s soul cease to exist. Why is this not an option?

Why should there be a third option?
When you die you are either saved or not saved and its us who choose which. If you choose not to be saved then you condemn yourself.
People who comment that if God loves us why would he let us be punished in Hell are those who simply want to justify a life of sin and do not want to give it up.

 

[tobinatorstark]

Catholic theology teaches there are two paths one can take in the afterlife. One is Heaven (either going directly, or taking a detour through Purgatory) and the other is Hell.

One goes to Heaven by the grace of God if they believe in Jesus. One goes to Hell if they have committed a mortal sin without confessing.

Why is there not a third option for those who don’t want to go to hell, but are also barred from Heaven because they don’t believe in Jesus or have committed a mortal sin?

It would seem that a loving alternative to damnation would be for God to simply make that person’s soul cease to exist. Why is this not an option?

It’s heaven or hell where we will spend our eternity. Purgatory isn’t alternative to damnation. Purgatory is to purify our souls and go through the sufferings of Christ so that we may be with the Father in heaven.

 

[LilyM]

Calling that third option a loving one is like saying that a parent whose child no longer wants to live with it would be loving if they euthanased the kid!

Hell is simply life without God’s love. It’s not miserable because He deliberately punishes them, it’s miserable because life without good (which is life without God since He is all good) IS miserable.

Those who honestly and absolutely, through no fault of their own, don’t KNOW about Jesus - or God for that matter - can go to heaven regardless, if they do their utmost to live a good life based on what they DO know.

Those who know but do not accept - well, that’s different. That’s the child who knows who its parents are but refuses to live in their house, go by their surname or acknowledge the relationship to the parents.

Again, a loving parent of such a child has the option of forcing them into the house when they don’t want to be there, or allowing them to remain outside where perforce they will also be miserable, but in a different way. Euthanasing them out of existence is NOT loving!

 

[SteveGC]

I do understand this sentiment about the afterlife. I think the bottom line is…

We simply do not have much revealed truth about the details of Heaven nor Hell. God has chosen to give us (through The Church) brief glimpses into them, and explain them in experiential terms (gnashing of teeth, eternal joy, etc), enough to let us know there is one you would desire, another you wouldn’t.

Beyond that, not much is revealed. Sometimes I ponder the comparison of different amounts of reward in heaven to a possibility of different amounts of punishment in hell. We know that God rewards us each according to our deeds, so it’s probably OK to entertain the idea that He also punishes according to our deeds. The caution here, is to not allow that to tempt you to be complacent, or satisfied in your “lukewarmness”. I would firmly hold that the least punishment in hell is an exponentially worse existence than the least reward in heaven. As LilyM rightly pointed out…

Hell is simply life without God’s love. It’s not miserable because He deliberately punishes them, it’s miserable because life without good (which is life without God since He is all good) IS miserable.

I suppose it boils down to what you are aware of…if you know God wants you to attain holiness (sainthood) on this earth, and ultimately commune with Him, you should do nothing but strive for that, and most likely you will end up in heaven with whatever appropriate reward. If you heard about Jesus, couldn’t bring yourself to believe in Him, but still lived a life consistent with the good nature God instilled in you, perhaps your destiny is not heaven, but perhaps your hell (while still the same “destination” or “place”) is experienced with lesser punishment than say, a person who lives an unrepentant sinful life (whether aware of and believing in Christ, or not).

Just some thoughts.

God Bless

 

[Church_Militant]

Catholic theology teaches there are two paths one can take in the afterlife. One is Heaven (either going directly, or taking a detour through Purgatory) and the other is Hell.

One goes to Heaven by the grace of God if they believe in Jesus. One goes to Hell if they have committed a mortal sin without confessing.

Why is there not a third option for those who don’t want to go to hell, but are also barred from Heaven because they don’t believe in Jesus or have committed a mortal sin?

It would seem that a loving alternative to damnation would be for God to simply make that person’s soul cease to exist. Why is this not an option?

Consider this analogy.

If you play Monopoly, you play by the rules that the game creator made for it, right?

You could try to make all new rules, but then that game would not really be Monopoly would it?

In order to play Monopoly, we play by the rules of its creator.

The same is true of life. (Not the game BTW, the real thing)

God created all things and as such has the right to decide how all of it works. One could try to make up all new rules, but would that be feasible and work? Not likely right?

So whose rules do we go by?

BTW, “what ifs” are very often unhelpful because they do not deal with the reality that we have in hand…

I hope all that makes some sense and is helpful. It’s an intangible that I deal with in that way and I realize that it has its limitations.

 

[Awake]

Nobody’s really answering my question.

Why doesn’t God make a person’s soul cease to exist rather than damn somebody for an eternity of suffering?

 

[fhansen]

Nobody’s really answering my question.

Why doesn’t God make a person’s soul cease to exist rather than damn somebody for an eternity of suffering?

It’s like asking why one was born to begin with and resenting the fact that they had no say in the matter. Existence is good, whether we think so at any given moment or not. The choice we have here is the choice between right and wrong, life or death. This is ultimately the choice between rejecting or embracing love. I can’t argue with love or anyone who suggests that I should practice it-because the lack of love in us is essentially what makes existence miserable for ourselves and others in the first place. The fact that we prefer that no conditions be placed on us is like wishing we’d never been born which is to avoid dealing with reality.

 

[Kay_Cee]

Nobody’s really answering my question.

Why doesn’t God make a person’s soul cease to exist rather than damn somebody for an eternity of suffering?

Because God, being all good, is not (excuse the politically incorrect term) an Indian giver. Once He bestows a gift, He does not steal it back.

Now, it is possible to throw away some of the gifts God gives us (salvation, for example). It is impossible, however, to throw away one’s own existence.

 

[SteveGC]

Nobody’s really answering my question.

Why doesn’t God make a person’s soul cease to exist rather than damn somebody for an eternity of suffering?

Awake,

This is a troubling subject, as it reminds me of some comments I’ve read in the past about suicidal people…who hope that they cease to exist because they’ve given up hope. Not that you are, but I did notice you state that you are Catholic, and considering atheism? Not sure if this will help, but I am right now involved in another thread which may help you understand some things about this - the topic title being:

Demanding Love at Gunpoint

God Bless

 

[Mark77]

Nobody’s really answering my question.

Why doesn’t God make a person’s soul cease to exist rather than damn somebody for an eternity of suffering?

That’s the idea! It’s a trial or a test. You either get it right or you get it wrong, there’s no middle ground.

God is so loving that we can reject Him and fail millions of times, just as long as we truly believe when we finally face God the Father at our judgment. Remember the good thief, “truly I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.” Lk 23:43

“The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God has come near; repent, and believe in the good news.” Mk 1:15.

That sounds like perfect love, ever forgiving yet allowing us to chose our own eternal destiny!

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

Mark

 

[Awake]

Now, it is possible to throw away some of the gifts God gives us (salvation, for example). It is impossible, however, to throw away one’s own existence.

But why is it impossible?

If somebody didn’t believe in Jesus, but didn’t want to go to hell, wouldn’t the more loving option be for God to make that person’s soul cease to exist rather than sending them to an eternity of torture?

 

[LilyM]

But why is it impossible?

If somebody didn’t believe in Jesus, but didn’t want to go to hell, wouldn’t the more loving option be for God to make that person’s soul cease to exist rather than sending them to an eternity of torture?

You seem to be glossing right over some very important points and distinctions here. Firstly, do you understand that whether you go to Hell depends on WHY you don’t believe in Jesus, and isn’t automatic for all non-believers? Of course we allow that God has pity on those who don’t believe in Him through no fault of their own. Or who don’t understand that they are running the risk of eternal damnation in not believing in Him?

If your lack of belief is wilful or negligent? Tough, you had your chance and tuned your back on it.

What would your response be if someone wilfully or negligently committed a serious crime and then said ‘oh no, I don’t want to be punished for it, I can’t stand the punishment’. They knew that they were risking punishment when they committed the offence, so stiff cheddar.

 

[Awake]

You seem to be glossing right over some very important points and distinctions here. Firstly, do you understand that whether you go to Hell depends on WHY you don’t believe in Jesus, and isn’t automatic for all non-believers? Of course we allow that God has pity on those who don’t believe in Him through no fault of their own. Or who don’t understand that they are running the risk of eternal damnation in not believing in Him?

If your lack of belief is wilful or negligent? Tough, you had your chance and tuned your back on it.

What would your response be if someone wilfully or negligently committed a serious crime and then said ‘oh no, I don’t want to be punished for it, I can’t stand the punishment’. They knew that they were risking punishment when they committed the offence, so stiff cheddar.

I see what you are saying, but I don’t get how damnation can ever be considered a just punishment.

We would all probably agree that life in solitary confinement is a harsh penalty for driving over the speed limit.

But damnation infinitely more harsh. We are told that the punishment for willfully skipping Mass one time and not feeling sorry for it is an eternity of torture and suffering.

 

[LilyM]

I see what you are saying, but I don’t get how damnation can ever be considered a just punishment.

We would all probably agree that life in solitary confinement is a harsh penalty for driving over the speed limit.

But damnation infinitely more harsh. We are told that the punishment for willfully skipping Mass one time and not feeling sorry for it is an eternity of torture and suffering.

Surely you don’t know the full extent of the harm done by your offence either, when it comes to breaking divine law. But you WILL know when you are judged, and no-one in Hell will be wondering why they are there or under the impression that their sentence is anything other than just in view of the harm they’ve done.

Secondly - the extent of punisment is a very secondary consideration. The point is that you KNOW you will be punished for breaking the law - human or divine. And you know that the potential punishment is, how harsh it is, in this case.

And knowing that, you have no right to complain about whatever the punishment is if you DO choose to run the risk involved in breaking it. If you don’t want the punishment, you shouldn’t break the law.

Do you think someone who smuggles drugs into Thailand knowing that the death penalty is the sentence they’re risking, should be excused from being executed? Why, if they knew the extremely bad potential outcome and took the risk anyway?
.

 

[Eucharisted]

Those who go to Heaven but still have venial sin go to Purgatory before going to Heaven in order to be purged of sin. They are saved, but still need purification before seeing God face-to-face. God is so holy that He detests even the least sin. Yet God is so merciful that He gives us, after death, a means to get rid of sin.

 

[Shin]

Hell is eternal punishment, in other words it is an act of Justice.

For a being that has been created and given the gift of immortality to deny God and sin against Him creates an imbalance in justice – in other words, punishment is due.

Now that punishment -has- to be fulfilled in some fashion or another or God is not Just – and that is impossible. So there has to be punishment – but what punishment?

If a human being acts to redress the sin he committed – he is showing he wishes to undo what he has done and do differently for the love of God, he has repented – and God in his mercy supplies for the punishment due Himself through Christ.

But if a human being denies Christ and turns away from God, God not only has no obligation to give any further mercy – He must not do so, He must instead balance the scales of Justice perfectly in the only other fashion that it can be done without the will of the human being towards repentance –

That balancing out is Hell, the perfect punishment for the immeasurable depths of evil that is sin.

Either way God gains His due. For a human being to sin and cease to exist – would be unjust, because punishment would not be done fitting the crime – that is sin against the infinitely good God. For the crime of sin against infinite goodness, is eternal damnation – and this is perfectly fitting.

 

[Awake]

The more I think about it, the more I realize that I can’t bring myself to worship such a god.

 

[fhansen]

The more I think about it, the more I realize that I can’t bring myself to worship such a god.

The God of our faith is exceedingly merciful, infinitely loving, and slow to justice. He’ll do nothing unfair, nothing unkind, nothing which is undeserved. He wishes none to perish. He loves unconditionally and it grieves His heart for even one to reject this love. He can be counted on to always do the right thing-and to be just above and beyond any standards of justice we may congratulate ourselves on for having.

Julian of Norwich, an English Catholic mystic of the 13th or 14th century who lived during the Black Plague and whose heart was burdened by the thought of people suffering eternally in hell was told by God simply this, which left her comforted, “All shall be well and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.” I won’t try to interpret how He’ll accomplish this but I know Him at least well enough to know that *no *manner of things will be a cause for burden in the end when all is consummated and Gods’ will is finally done.

 

[Shin]

I am wondering if you have any idea how evil the people in Hell are and wondering why you prefer them to God and Justice.

But perhaps you do not have any love of justice or understanding of it in absolute terms?

Have you never understood that crimes deserve punishment? Have you never felt that yourself, or met true evil deserving of it?

And yet the Lord has so much patience and mercy. And yet too, He is God and we are not – His judgement absolutely can be trusted to be perfectly good, and ours… as farther from His understanding as the bottom of the ocean is from the heights of the sky.