An amazing Christian who defied the Nazis!

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In fact, I’m not just talking about the Holocaust. (Which could perhaps be blamed on a few fanatics from the SS)

We are talking about the kind of support that enabled Nazi Germany the power to fight a major war for five and a half years - only defeated by the combined might of the British Empire, The Soviet Union and the USA!

How do we account for this in a “Christian” nation if the churches were largely against the Nazis? :confused:

I suspect these heroic examples of defiance are exceptions, not the uniform response. (infact I notice many of them are from countries that were enemies of Germany - which would easily explain their stand)
There are history buffs that can do a much better job at explaining how the Nazis came to power, but I do remember a few things from a history class I took in college.

The German people were slowly brainwashed. Radio stations preaching propaganda over the years. There was a constant fear knowing that if they didn’t comply they, or their children, could be killed.

I would like to think that I could withstand such pressure, however I have great compassion for people that were afraid and/or did not have access to the truth.

In all honesty, it would be hard to comprehend that any regime could be so horrific! Maybe people felt it was all to horrible to believe it could be true.

No matter how or why it happened, it is hard to imagine that such evil that could fill the hearts of people.
 
Thanks so much for your research! Abucs 🙂

I do not dispute any of the facts you present!

Indeed, I have read the book “The Popes last Crusade.” - As well as the 1937 Enclyptic, It seems Pius XI was having another encyclical written that would denounce the Nazi racial ideology in even more powerful terms!
(Unfortunately, it seems the Jesuit General mothballed the master copy he was supposed to pass on to the Pope for approval and it never saw the light of day.)

Also Pius XI had a big meeting for all the Italian Bishops scheduled in 1939 where many speculate he was going to excommunicate Mussolini or Hitler or both! - (Pius XI died just days before it was to happen)

So I think Pius XI had realised the Nazis and Fascists were evil and could not be worked with or restrained. The concordat signed with Nazi Germany had been repeatedly broken by the Nazis.

Also “Lax16 “ has highlighted numerous courageous individuals who resisted the Nazis dsepite great danger to themselves. (sometimes at the cost of their lives)

And there are many examples of those who assisted and saved thousands from the concentration camps – including church buildings and even the Vatican used to conceal ones in danger.

None of this I dispute for a moment! Infact I could add numerous examples myself from my own reading. (This is a period of History I am quite fascinated by)

But despite all these heroic examples –** obviously the holocaust still happened.**

Obviously a large percentage of the population still gave the Nazis support. (grudginly or willingly)
In the 1930’s about a third of German population was Catholic, (closer to 50% when Austria was annexed in 1938) The rest were usually Protestants. Most Germans back then were still regular church goers.
Of Germany’s allies, Hungary and Italy were almost totally Catholic.

How do we account for this? :confused:
How do we account for Judas, who traveled with Jesus for years, ended up betraying Him? Individuals do bad things all the time. If you had read the first posting I made, you would see that in most of Germany, for a Catholic to even join the Nazi party meant automatic excommunication.
 
… If you had read the first posting I made, you would see that in most of Germany, for a Catholic to even join the Nazi party meant automatic excommunication.
Yes, - but that was in the 1920’s and early 1930’s before the Nazis came to power.

That stand changed with the Concordat signed when Hitler became Chancellor.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichskonkordat

Many in the Nazi party and the SS were officially Catholic and were never excommunicated.
 

The German people were slowly brainwashed. Radio stations preaching propaganda over the years.
Yes. I think you are on to the reasons:
  1. Propaganda and brain washing.
Many must have come to seriously believe what the Nazis were saying.


There was a constant fear knowing that if they didn’t comply they, or their children, could be killed.
  1. Fear of man.
Imagine the courage it would take to be the only one in a crowd to refuse to “Heil Hitler”.
Most would go along with it despite their misgivings.
In all honesty, it would be hard to comprehend that any regime could be so horrific! Maybe people felt it was all to horrible to believe it could be true.

No matter how or why it happened, it is hard to imagine that such evil that could fill the hearts of people.
  1. denying (or ignoring) the extent of what was happening.
Many must have simply not believed the “rumors” or dismissed it as “enemy propoganda”

Very interesting. Thank you for your thoughts. 👍
 
Yes, - but that was in the 1920’s and early 1930’s before the Nazis came to power.

That stand changed with the Concordat signed when Hitler became Chancellor.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichskonkordat

Many in the Nazi party and the SS were officially Catholic and were never excommunicated.
Umm, you need to reread what you posted. After the Concordat was signed, it still meant automatic excommunication for a Catholic to join the Nazi party. Nothing in the Concordat revoked or removed the penalty of excommunication for a Catholic.
 
Yes, - but that was in the 1920’s and early 1930’s before the Nazis came to power.

That stand changed with the Concordat signed when Hitler became Chancellor.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichskonkordat

Many in the Nazi party and the SS were officially Catholic and were never excommunicated.
Have you seen the movie The Scarlet and The Black?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scarlet_and_the_Black

It is a fantastic movie and I highly recommend it since you seem interested in this topic.
 
Yes, - but that was in the 1920’s and early 1930’s before the Nazis came to power.

That stand changed with the Concordat signed when Hitler became Chancellor.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichskonkordat

Many in the Nazi party and the SS were officially Catholic and were never excommunicated.
stanthonymessenger.org/AskAFranciscan/Question.aspx?question=72

Ask a Franciscan
By Father Pat McCloskey, OFM
Were Any Catholic Nazis Excommunicated?
A radio talk show recently discussed the role of the Catholic Church during World War II. One caller asked specifically how many high-ranking Catholic Nazis were excommunicated for their crimes against the innocent. Another caller said that Joseph Goebbels was the only one excommunicated and that was for his marriage outside the Church. Is that true?
Answer
To answer your questions about the Catholic Church and the Nazis, I need to offer some general background about excommunications. Most of them are not directed at specific individuals but rather at groups of people who commit certain actions. The 1983 Code of Canon Law gives as examples
of latae sententiae (automatic) excommunication having an abortion, giving direct assistance in an abortion, a priest knowingly absolving someone with whom he has broken the Sixth Commandment, committing heresy, apostasy or schism, impersonating a priest in celebrating Mass or hearing
confessions, consecrating a bishop without a mandate from the Holy See, violating the seal of confession, desecrating consecrated hosts or striking the Roman pontiff. Belonging to a political party is rarely a reason for excommunication.

To answer your question about the Church and the Nazis: According to the New Catholic Encyclopedia’s entry on Pius XI (pope from February 1922 to February 1939), he directed 34 notes of protest to the German government between 1933 and 1936. The March 1937 encyclical Mit brennender Sorge (With Burning Concern) was written by Cardinals Eugenio Pacelli, secretary of state and the future Pope Pius XII, and Michael von Faulhaber, archbishop of Munich, and was smuggled into Germany and read from all Catholic pulpits.

“The encyclical condemned with unusual sharpness,” says the article cited above, “the constant violations of law and the un-Christian teachings and practices of National Socialism. Taken together with the previous papal protests, the encyclical constituted a public demonstration of Hitler’s duplicity the like of which was not attempted by any other sovereign power prior to the outbreak of World War II.”

Some Catholic Nazis tolerated the Church’s efforts to protect Jewish people and others in Italy and other countries that the Nazis eventually controlled. Other Catholic Nazis benefited from loyalty to that party.

Cardinal Clemens August Graf von Galen, bishop of Münster and a vigorous opponent of the Nazis, was beatified on October 9, 2005.

The late Father Robert Graham, S.J., and three other Jesuits had full access to the Vatican archives and edited 11 volumes of The Acts and Documents of the Holy See Concerning World War II (1966-81). Father Graham was a strong defender of the actions of Pope Pius XII during World War II. The Vatican’s archives for these years are not yet open to all researchers.

Last May, Catholic News Service reported the finding of a November 1944 memo in which British and U.S. diplomats urged that Pope Pius XII not make a radio appeal to protest deportations of Hungarian Jews. That document has been posted at ptwf.org. In late 1944, the Catholic Church in Hungary was sheltering an estimated 25,000 Jewish people in homes and religious institutions.

Although individual Catholics who were Nazis were not excommunicated, any Catholic wanting to advance within the Nazi structure knew that closeness to the Catholic Church would damage such a career. Excommunication is a last resort and is used in the hope that it will jolt people into reconsidering their actions. Sometimes it has the desired effect; often it does not.
 
Umm, you need to reread what you posted. After the Concordat was signed, it still meant automatic excommunication for a Catholic to join the Nazi party. Nothing in the Concordat revoked or removed the penalty of excommunication for a Catholic.
Actually, I believe I am partly in error on the excommunication part. The ban was lifted, after the legal elections of 1932, as covered under Canon law and an elected government.

Excerpts from a book about Pope Pius XII with official statements of the Catholic Church and letters that were written, a good read. books.google.com/books?id=nvOInjiJxjQC&pg=PA7&lpg=PA7&dq=to+belong+to+nazi+party+meant+excommunication&source=bl&ots=pe4u0tWvPc&sig=HM1CPZbrXZNyH2gn3v3FuYcegR4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAmoVChMIz-6w0JqMyAIVSYCSCh0VJwT0#v=onepage&q=to%20belong%20to%20nazi%20party%20meant%20excommunication&f=false

The timeline on pg.7 is interesting.

and on pg.25 Why the Church lifted the excommunication ban.
 
In fact, I’m not just talking about the Holocaust. (Which could perhaps be blamed on a few fanatics from the SS)

We are talking about the kind of support that enabled Nazi Germany the power to fight a major war for five and a half years - only defeated by the combined might of the British Empire, The Soviet Union and the USA!

How do we account for this in a “Christian” nation if the churches were largely against the Nazis? :confused:

I suspect these heroic examples of defiance are exceptions, not the uniform response. (infact I notice many of them are from countries that were enemies of Germany - which would easily explain their stand)
I think we have to remember that the National Socialist Workers Party (Nazis) were an anti Christian socialist party despite what leftist academics have portrayed for many decades.

If you go back and read a lot of the 1930’s papers regarding Germany you will see comments regarding the de-Christianisation of Germany. By the way I would see the fact that critical biblical studies started in Germany first a few decades earlier as a move to de-Catholicise the population and it basically sought to give an academic basis for attacking Christianity which supported the rise of National Socialist politics.

Some of the papers are mentioned in the following link (down the page) although some have been moved and others have changed to subscription models.

whatswrongwithatheism.wordpress.com/scholarly-articles/

Having read all of the papers in full it is clear that Germany had been moving away from Christianity on the basis that Christianity being out of date and people should support progressive socialist politics.

Also I am sure you have seen the voting map for the Nazi Party and how Catholics voted.

socialpathology.blogspot.com/2012/04/1932-german-election.html

Socialist politics like to reduce the people’s communication with and attachment to Christianity in favour of the state. Hitler did this by removing Catholic publications, Catholic social groups and finally Catholic schools. When you remove the ability of the Catholic Church to communicate and you are able to control the population through secular schooling, publications and laws then you start to de-Christianise the population.

I think the pope wrote just before the start of the war that the German state had cut off all possible communication between the German population and the Vatican.

You have to also consider the history of the German state’s move against the Catholic Church (including directed biblical criticism) in the period before the Nazis from Bismark onwards who tried to promote German-ness ahead of Catholicism.

The socialist move against the Church is mentioned in the references to the archived newspapers above, in the fact that Hitler appointed anti-Christian figures to his government, his private anti-Christian comment in Hitler’s Table Talk, his plans to invade the Vatican and his treatment of the Church in places like Poland.

library2.lawschool.cornell.edu/donovan/pdf/Nuremberg_3/Vol_X_18_03_02.pdf

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_persecution_of_the_Catholic_Church_in_Germany
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_propaganda
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_Nazi_Germany

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Nazi_Germany

vho.org/aaargh/fran/livres10/HTableTalk.pdf
 
I suspect these heroic examples of defiance are exceptions, not the uniform response. (infact I notice many of them are from countries that were enemies of Germany - which would easily explain their stand)
I invite you to join a large crowd of protesters - and witness that in a group, people do things that they wouldn’t do by themselves. They’ll loot, rob, smash and burn. And if you turn aside from the group - they’ll turn their anger on you.

This same thing happened on a national level in Germany - individual Germans mostly went along to go along - to protect the lives of themselves and their families. They were in a deep mass hysteria, and only the bravest or those in tune with God’s will were able to resist.

Spend some time in Germany, Japan, or the United States and look at how nice most people are - but they can turn on each other once gathered into a large group. Even we Americans have enslaved, interned, and slaughtered our own people.

This is also the reason why Government is so dangerous - a Government will do things that very few of it’s individual members would do. For example - I don’t get up in the morning and think on how to drone strike a nation half-way around the world.
 
I invite you to join a large crowd of protesters - and witness that in a group, people do things that they wouldn’t do by themselves. They’ll loot, rob, smash and burn. And if you turn aside from the group - they’ll turn their anger on you.

This same thing happened on a national level in Germany - individual Germans mostly went along to go along - to protect the lives of themselves and their families. They were in a deep mass hysteria, and only the bravest or those in tune with God’s will were able to resist.

Spend some time in Germany, Japan, or the United States and look at how nice most people are - but they can turn on each other once gathered into a large group. Even we Americans have enslaved, interned, and slaughtered our own people.

This is also the reason why Government is so dangerous - a Government will do things that very few of it’s individual members would do. For example - I don’t get up in the morning and think on how to drone strike a nation half-way around the world.
Well stated, wish I was as succinct.
 
Spend some time in Germany, Japan, or the United States and look at how nice most people are - but they can turn on each other once gathered into a large group.

This is also the reason why Government is so dangerous.
👍
 
This is also the reason why Government is so dangerous - a Government will do things that very few of it’s individual members would do. For example - I don’t get up in the morning and think on how to drone strike a nation half-way around the world.
I agree but this does not mean we should throw the baby out with the bathwater. IOW, we still have a man made governmental system that will always need Christians to help direct it the way God would want it to be directed here on earth. Sure, any man made government will always fight against what God designs as just, but we must continue to “be all things to all men” until He comes again.

I know you agree with this but I just wanted to clarify the position for the OP.

Peace!!!
 
A young German Catholic who truly represents the soul of European Catholicism was Willi Graf who should have long ago been made a Saint. He joined with other Christian young people - protestant and Orthodox Christians - in speaking out against Hitler, the Nazis, anti-semitism and the butchery of the Polish Catholic Church about which the Vatican remained silent - evidence by its ignoring the pleading of Polish Cardinal Hlond. He died a martyr to his faith and to the teaching of Jesus resisting the temptations of this World as few of us can.

Find out more about this remarkable and faithful Catholic hero.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willi_Graf
 
I am glad that many Christians were willing to go against fascism instead of just accepting it because it is right-wing.
 
A young German Catholic who truly represents the soul of European Catholicism was Willi Graf who should have long ago been made a Saint. He joined with other Christian young people - protestant and Orthodox Christians - in speaking out against Hitler, the Nazis, anti-semitism and the butchery of the Polish Catholic Church about which the Vatican remained silent - evidence by its ignoring the pleading of Polish Cardinal Hlond. He died a martyr to his faith and to the teaching of Jesus resisting the temptations of this World as few of us can.

Find out more about this remarkable and faithful Catholic hero.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willi_Graf
The following is taken from this website: religion.wikia.com/wiki/Pope_Pius_XII_and_Poland

Pope Pius XII chose the solemn occasion of his first encyclical Summi Pontificatus, October 1939, in which he stated that all races and cultures are of equal value, because the creator did not create inequality. Turning to Poland he said:
Code:
The blood of countless people, even non-combatants, gives rise to a harrowing funeral lament, especially over Poland, a dearly beloved country. Because of its glorious attainments on behalf of Christian civilization, attainments indelibly inscribed in the annals of history, Poland has a right to the world’s human and fraternal sympathy, and, confident in the powerful intercession of Mary, who is the auxilium christianorum, she awaits the hour of her resurrection in justice and peace.[10]
The Polish episcopate led by Cardinal August Hlond, who had repeatedly urged the Holy See to issue protests, warnings, or condemnations,** was “deeply grateful”**.[11] Still, the papal protest, radio reports, L’Osservatore Romano documentaries and other protests issued later did little or nothing to alleviate the suffering of the Polish people and clergy in the following war years under German and Soviet occupation. In fact the persecutions got worse.[11] The Pope therefore chose his words carefully, because of his basic belief, expressed later that became his policy during the war:
Code:
Every word from Us should be carefully considered and weighted in the very interest of those who suffer,** as not to make their position even more difficult and more intolerable ** than previously, even though inadvertently and unwillingly.[12]
During the war, Stefan Wyszynski under the pseudonym Dr. Stefan Zuzelski, wrote several articles on this subject, such as Vatican and Poland and Pius XII and Poland,[13]. He explained the position of the Vatican:

** If sometimes news about Poland were scarce and tragic moments were passed over in silence, this was done only on the request of Polish circles, **who had discovered, that the Germans took revenge on our prisoners for programs about their exploits in Poland.[14]

The Pope according to Wyszynski, never ceased to recognize Polish sovereignty and did not make any personal or territorial changes, while the frequent Vatican press reports continued to report about Poland “as a country standing with the free states fighting for a better future”.[14] Still, State authorities tried to discredit Pope Pius XII in the eyes of Polish society. His actual speeches and messages to the people of Poland were not known in Poland.
 
The following is taken from this website: religion.wikia.com/wiki/Pope_Pius_XII_and_Poland

Pope Pius XII chose the solemn occasion of his first encyclical Summi Pontificatus, October 1939, in which he stated that all races and cultures are of equal value, because the creator did not create inequality. Turning to Poland he said:
Code:
The blood of countless people, even non-combatants, gives rise to a harrowing funeral lament, especially over Poland, a dearly beloved country. Because of its glorious attainments on behalf of Christian civilization, attainments indelibly inscribed in the annals of history, Poland has a right to the world’s human and fraternal sympathy, and, confident in the powerful intercession of Mary, who is the auxilium christianorum, she awaits the hour of her resurrection in justice and peace.[10]
The Polish episcopate led by Cardinal August Hlond, who had repeatedly urged the Holy See to issue protests, warnings, or condemnations,** was “deeply grateful”**.[11] Still, the papal protest, radio reports, L’Osservatore Romano documentaries and other protests issued later did little or nothing to alleviate the suffering of the Polish people and clergy in the following war years under German and Soviet occupation. In fact the persecutions got worse.[11] The Pope therefore chose his words carefully, because of his basic belief, expressed later that became his policy during the war:
Code:
Every word from Us should be carefully considered and weighted in the very interest of those who suffer,** as not to make their position even more difficult and more intolerable ** than previously, even though inadvertently and unwillingly.[12]
During the war, Stefan Wyszynski under the pseudonym Dr. Stefan Zuzelski, wrote several articles on this subject, such as Vatican and Poland and Pius XII and Poland,[13]. He explained the position of the Vatican:

** If sometimes news about Poland were scarce and tragic moments were passed over in silence, this was done only on the request of Polish circles, **who had discovered, that the Germans took revenge on our prisoners for programs about their exploits in Poland.[14]

The Pope according to Wyszynski, never ceased to recognize Polish sovereignty and did not make any personal or territorial changes, while the frequent Vatican press reports continued to report about Poland “as a country standing with the free states fighting for a better future”.[14] Still, State authorities tried to discredit Pope Pius XII in the eyes of Polish society. His actual speeches and messages to the people of Poland were not known in Poland.
Sorry if I prefer Willi Graf’s faithful Catholicism to the Vatican’s Worldly approach - if only Pius had told German Catholics to stop killing Polish Catholics - including priests and nuns - but the Vatican did not. Willi is my Catholic hero not a reluctant Pope.
 
Sorry if I prefer Willi Graf’s faithful Catholicism to the Vatican’s Worldly approach - if only Pius had told German Catholics to stop killing Polish Catholics - including priests and nuns - but the Vatican did not. Willi is my Catholic hero not a reluctant Pope.
An interesting read for anyone interested in this era is GOD’S BANKERS: A history of money and power at the Vatican. Written by a Catholic, Gerald Posner.
 
Indeed. Who could argue the Nazi government had to be defeated.

Though I have often wondered:

What would have happened if the Pope had made a similar stand as the Purple Triangles?

What would have been the result if he had declared war incompatible with Christian principles, and the total obedience demanded by Hitler akin to false worship?
(He could have quoted Jesus words to Pilate at John 18:36 as justification.)

Would that have sapped Hitler of millions of supporters and paralysed his plans?
Or would loyalty to country have overridden religious obedience?
(I think there is an alternative history book to be written on that idea)

Any thoughts on what the result would have been? :confused:
I am seriously interested in peoples opinions.
What a timely post, with World Youth Day taking place in Kraków. The Nazis hated ethnic Poles and they hated the Roman Catholic Church. Along with nearly 3 million Jews murdered in Poland, the Nazis murdered as many Christians, including at least 3000 priests.

It was during this time that Pope Pious XII released his encyclical SUMMI PONTIFICATUS. Worth the read, if only to discover what you are looking for.
 
What a timely post, with World Youth Day taking place in Kraków. The Nazis hated ethnic Poles and they hated the Roman Catholic Church. Along with nearly 3 million Jews murdered in Poland, the Nazis murdered as many Christians, including at least 3000 priests.

It was during this time that Pope Pious XII released his encyclical SUMMI PONTIFICATUS. Worth the read, if only to discover what you are looking for.
And yet, despite all this, there are still popular claims among many that the Catholic Church stood up for the new German National Socialist regime of the day and even that bishops attended rallies and other junctions.
 
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