An Ambiguous Vocation...How Unromantic!

[JeannetteCML]

Thanks so much everyone for your insight and support. You have given me a lot to reflect on and I know I will likely reread much of what is on this thread as I try to persevere. So far, it has, in fact, made work a little easier. I do think it is very important to live in the moment and to offer the present to God. At the same time, I have a human need to know where I am going and what my goals are, to keep growing.

Brother Scott, thank you for the way you clarified and ordered some things for me. I will definitely try to check out your facebook note because I do need inner peace. I wish, however, that discernment did seem as simple as knowing your values and making a decision about them. Maybe it is. Maybe there are many little decisions along the way, prioritizing at every moment, keeping a clear picture of the “one thing” I need to be about and making the choice to keep going. But I know there is some friction involved. There is an inertia I am fighting against and so many options that seem impossible to me, real life limitations. I have to go forward without knowing what I will succeed at or when the fruits of my efforts will not be obvious to me. Sometimes I know they will seem like failures although God has some hidden purpose for them, and it is a challenge to adjust–to “let go” yet at the same time to not “give up.”

St. Therese is amazing to me, so humble and so patient. Her way of doing “little things” with great love is something I need to work on. I am also reminded of the parable of the talents in which the servants, because they were faithful in small matters, doubling their master’s money whatever the amount, they were then given the responsibility to do greater things. I know I haven’t fully optimized the job I have already been given. Maybe God is giving me the opportunity to “simmer,” as Linda says, until I do. Even so, I really can’t stay here at this job, however long it’s going to take me. I need to actively pursue another venue because I have a responsibility to support myself. I need to give my parents a break, even though it is wonderful to be with them. I can’t live with them forever. And they are being so generous and patient with me in letting me do so now. But rightfully, they want to know I have a plan and that I am actively working hard on it. And for me, it has to be a plan that I can believe in. I’m not sure I quite have that yet. So, I guess I will put the question out there: If writing is what I want to do and theology is what I love, what job I can look for now that is amenable to those things? I’m hoping there might be a job that would inspire me, inform me, or at least leave me energy to write…

Also, as an aside, one of the baggers who works with me was fired two days ago. This was his only job. He told me he has experience working in a factory but the economy is a little rough right now. He lives with his parents, too, and I am concerned for him. It’s people in situations such as his, as well as myself, who originally lead me to ask questions about this notion of a vocation. What call does God give to the unemployed, the frustrated? Some of you have answered already. I hope you will say a prayer for him. The realization comes to me that that could have easily been me–or still could be me. He is just as quiet a person as I am, and yet, he was still friendly and kind. He didn’t get so bitter as it is so easy for me to do. And he could work as though his job and life situation weren’t eating at him. I hope he is going to be alright…

 

[MadMaxi]

Have you tried writing small pieces for some of the online sites or regional Catholic newspapers? Then as you feel more comfortable try doing freelance as a writer? Combine the two as you ponder this decision and write about it for the countless others out there not articulating how they, too, are going through the same questions. Nothing else it will be work you can review in a few years to see how far you have come.

Don’t know but it is a little thing to do that might bring some clarity while you come to a more concrete plan.

Peace,
Linda

 

[brigid12]

And for me, it has to be a plan that I can believe in. I’m not sure I quite have that yet. So, I guess I will put the question out there: If writing is what I want to do and theology is what I love, what job I can look for now that is amenable to those things? I’m hoping there might be a job that would inspire me, inform me, or at least leave me energy to write…

Also, as an aside, one of the baggers who works with me was fired two days ago. This was his only job. He told me he has experience working in a factory but the economy is a little rough right now. He lives with his parents, too, and I am concerned for him. It’s people in situations such as his, as well as myself, who originally lead me to ask questions about this notion of a vocation. What call does God give to the unemployed, the frustrated? Some of you have answered already. I hope you will say a prayer for him. The realization comes to me that that could have easily been me–or still could be me. He is just as quiet a person as I am, and yet, he was still friendly and kind. He didn’t get so bitter as it is so easy for me to do. And he could work as though his job and life situation weren’t eating at him. I hope he is going to be alright…

Prayers are certainly going up for he and for you and all in this situation.

I agree with Linda that freelancing may be a good thing for you to do to, at least, supplementing your income plus finding out about what the world is paying to read these days. Additionally, it may well put you in contact with people you wouldn’t ordinarily contact and indicate a “real” job in which you would be doing what you feel able to do and would pay your bills, too.

I apologize for not having a clear business plan idea for you. I’m very much like you and in a similar situation.

 

[Birdchest]

Jeannette, ever thought about joining the Army. There is a job called Chaplain’s Assistant which might suit you. I was a religion major in college and kinda fit your category. I joined as a Chaplain’s Assistant about 30 years ago, did a lot of things on active duty and as a reservist, and now am about to retire with 20 years active service. I’m also an introvert and prefer not to deal too much with people. However, my jobs (now as an officer) has challenged me to become more outgoing. Just a thought. God bless you-I really identified with what you had to say.

 

[MadMaxi]

Army? I don’t know, I was in as an enlisted and for me it really was hard as a catholic and especially as a woman. Won’t bore with details unless someone really wants to know but military is one of the last things I’d recommend someone not already with an inclination. Then again I was enlisted as a pharmacy spec and not an officer, or going in as a Chaplin, LOL, so results may vary. A good suggestion though I never would have even thought to recommend. Forgot they do have that as a job option. I did get my nickname from the Army

Linda

 

[pamkowal]

Dear Jeanette,
First of all, congratulations on getting your Masters in Theology! I truly hope that you find what you’re looking for. Settling on a career (as opposed to a vocation, which in this forum category I believe refers more to a spiritual calling) can be difficult. Deciding which gifts we’ve been given are most important to us, and then finding the opportunities to put these talents to use is challenging for everyone. Maximizing the potential for finding one’s career mission that will best reflect what ‘specific effect we think God wants us to have on the world’, takes patience, serendipity, openness and trust in the face of unexpected twists and turns in life’s unfoldment, curiosity, and a proactive approach to what life throws our way. You mentioned that everyone on earth has a purpose. In my humble opinion, that purpose is the same for every person—to find God, as He chooses to exist and express Himself, in every present moment of our life. In this sense, what we choose to do as a career has little bearing on experiencing our purpose in life. No matter what job we end up in, if we do it with love, with full attention, with a spirit of service, and as an offering of gratitude to God, then we’ve fulfilled our purpose in life through the vehicle of our career. Our life purpose morphs into our career mission when we lead our lives in such a way that others are inspired to see the same qualities of ‘presence’ within their own lives. In this way, we become the change we wish to see in the world and our effects on the world become profound. In your position as a check-out clerk in a grocery store this life purpose/mission might play itself out in the way you greet each customer as a form of Christ, in how well you pay full attention to the groceries you bag as the multitude of creative forms of God, in the prayers with which you might silently bless each item of food you bag and in your heartfelt good wishes that each customer be strengthened by the food you are handling, in your willingness to ‘be’ the action of bagging (minus the ego identification of being the bagger) without your added judgment of the importance of the task or its reflection of your own self-worth, and the reverence you would feel if you treated each item you touch as sacred expressions of God’s creative presence. The profane (mundane) contains the sacred, just as the sacred contains the profane, and each moment, each movement of our body, each thought we have, each feeling we experience are all permeated with the essence of God, for nothing and no one is separate from the wholeness of His One creative thought. God is ‘thinking’ you, and you, if you’re aware and present, can reflect this Godly thought in the way you think, feel and act with your customers. I guarantee that if you learn to live life in this way you will live with “passion, with drive, with a sense of direction and be fulfilled”. If there is ‘nothing special’ about your current life or job and you ‘want to fight for something more’, know that there is nothing in life which is NOT special—it’s all God! You can relax in the sure knowledge that if you respond to all of life with this understanding then your opportunities for ‘greatness’ will expand beyond measure, in ways you might not expect.

  I can understand your need to exercise your intelligence; obviously you're very bright if you've gotten your Master's degree and you rightfully enjoy using your mind.  But what if this job is in your life right now to broaden your skill base by teaching you how to be with people in order to assist you in developing a more integrated life?  You've said you're a very quiet person but you didn't say whether you have a strong need for solitude and aloneness.  Do you feel uncomfortable around other people?  Life has a way of giving us lessons that go against our normal patterns of behavior to help us grow and to balance our inner and outer relationships with ourselves and with others.  

If you love to write, then by all means, make it a priority in your life.  You may be working in a grocery store to pay the bills, but your true 'vocation' may exist as your avocation within your life as it is right now.  Can't write a novel or a memoir? Then write an inspirational article for a Christian magazine about how to live an extraordinary ordinary life. .  Write spiritual essays.  Write a book of prayers.  Write sermons. Write in a journal as a spiritual practice.  Study and research your topics--that should feed your need for intellectual stimulation. If writing is your gift, then offer it back to God as your gift to Him without expectation of reward.  Eventually you'll find that the satisfaction of writing becomes its own reward.  You may not make a lot of money; you may not get accolades and pats on the back from your family and friends; you may not have professional status in the world.  What you WILL get is the satisfaction of knowing that you honored the gift that you were given and that you were true to your inner self.  I have no doubt that you'll find your mission in life and along the way, if you're sufficiently aware, your life will become the expression of your purpose too. Good luck and many blessings!!  With warm regards, Pam :thumbsup:

 

[JeannetteCML]

Thank you, Pam. What a beautiful post. You are Buddhist? That’s interesting. I like your wholistic approach and the way it gives meaning to everything. I don’t often consider what an actual gift these groceries are as I briefly pass them on through every day.

I agree that everyone’s general vocation is to “seek God” in any situation. But I also think that God has a unique “how” in mind for every individual. I believe He has specific and precise intentions. This all has been said… I guess the reason that I am looking at my need for a job from the “vocational” point of view is that I am looking for some kind of sanction from God, a stamp of approval upon the seeming vagueness and complexity of it all. If I am suffering and spinning my wheels for something I just want on my own, it’s one thing. But if it is God’s will that I at least aim for something–even if I don’t succeed–that’s another matter. Than I am on the right path. It’s about the reason I do everything I do.

I apologize for not having a clear business plan idea for you. I’m very much like you and in a similar situation.

Yeah, I wish I had such a plan, too. But, you have inspired me already…

Still working… Still thinking and praying… Thanks everyone for the ideas.

 

[pamkowal]

Hi, Jeanette! I guess you and I differ in our views on God’s plan for each of us. I think God uses whatever comes up in a person’s life to teach a lesson, and so there are no ‘mistakes’ when it comes to choosing a career. No matter what path you choose there will be challenges. There is no ‘perfect’ job. I don’t know how old you are, but if you just got your Masters degree I’m guessing that you may be in your twenties. I remember that life passage quite well and I especially remember feeling that I was made for something great. I was very bright, articulate and competent with a degree in Psychology but I just couldn’t seem to figure out what I was supposed to do with my life. I was good at a lot of different things and I was afraid of making a mistake and choosing the wrong career path so I malingered over a job search. Then my sister very practically said to me, ‘Just do something, anything–the important thing is to begin.’ I took her advice and started working for a chiropractor so I could get free back adjustments whenever I wanted them. I loved dealing with the patients and learning about their injuries and their lives. From that starting point I developed an interest in medical issues and eventually ended up as a medical social worker for my county health department, working with families who have children with serious chronic illnesses. While I was doing the 40 hour/week paid thing I also worked weekends at a ‘New Age’ bookstore for free books as my pay, I free-lanced as a calligrapher for restaurants, non-profit agencies and private individuals (mostly weddings) and taught adult education courses through my local community school districts in calligraphy, journal writing, basket weaving, emergency preparedness, Japanese gardening–whatever topic caught my interest. I’d research a topic, structure a class outline and create handouts and off I’d go to share my interest and enthusiasm with others. As you can see, my career ‘path’ was not straight–it led me down many interesting side trips as a result of my willingness to pay attention to what interested me and then branching out from there. There is a wonderful quote by Rumi that I think of often: “Let the beauty we love be what we do. There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground.” Keep your eyes open for things that catch your attention in the newspaper and let your curiosity lead you to new vistas. Don’t limit yourself. If nothing sounds interesting to you, then pick a random topic that you think is boring and research it. I’ll bet you’d find that the topic wasn’t so boring after all. You might be very pleasantly surprised at how the possibilities for broadening your skills and talents will expand to fit your enthusiasm and willingness to be led. I remember a story I once heard about a little boy who was sitting on his back porch steps one summer day, whining that he had nothing to do. His mom came out and sat next to him. As she thought about what her son could do to amuse himself she happened to look down and saw a carpenter ant wending its way along the edge of the step. She told her son to go to the library and research the life cycle of the carpenter ant and report back to her. He did as he was told and his willingness to learn about something out of his natural comfort zone led him to eventually becoming an expert on insects as an adult. See how it works? When I decided to teach a class on Japanese gardening I knew nothing about the topic; I just liked the way zen gardens looked. So I researched the topic, gathered pictures, learned about the symbolism behind the placement of rocks and plants, etc., talked to landscapers and taught a one-night class about it. A small thing, to be sure, but what fun it was and how stimulating it felt to use my mind and creativity in such a delightful positive way. (And in my area of the country, community ed teachers get paid and choose their own teaching schedules.) I know that you are quiet–how about working in the background as an assistant at a retreat center or in your parish? I’d like to suggest an author for you to check out. Her name is Barbara Sher. She teaches how to brainstorm to get ideas for careers. Her books are wonderful and extremely useful. Check these out:

barbarasher.com/ (official website: You can sign up to get her free monthly newsletter)

Book title: I Could Do Anything If I Only Knew What It Was: How to Discover What You Really Want and How to Get It:
amazon.com/Could-Anything-Only-Knew-What/dp/0440505003/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247197339&sr=8-5

Book Title: Wishcraft: How to Get What You Really Want :
amazon.com/Wishcraft-How-What-Really-Want/dp/0345465180/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247197339&sr=8-8

Hope these ramblings help! All the best, Pam

 

[JeannetteCML]

Awesome. You’ve obviously had a very full life because of your willingness to take risks and try new things. You sound like a very intelligent person.

 

[barb_finnegan]

Jeanette, I read all your posts-and most of the others, too-I feel for you, really.

I’ll be 55 next month, and I haven’t the foggiest notion of what God wants of me. I’m a loner like you-I’ve lived alone since my mother died five years ago. I worked in menial jobs in banking and insurance-the latter as a temp-and in retail. The latter was my ‘favorite’ because it was in a Catholic bookstore. I ended up having to leave because I kept screwing up paperwork when it came to calculating things like gift certificates. I got so tired of being yelled at by the bookkeeper [her mother was a teacher of mine in business school] that I just picked up and walked out of the place. But I loved the store for the sole reason that I was able to use my knowledge and love for the Catholic Faith for the benefit of the customers who came in. I met so many good people in the time I spent there!

I’ve never married-and hardly dated. In my younger years I thought of religious life [the Discalced Carmelites] but it never panned out. I was also in two Third Orders in succession-the Franciscans and the Discalced Carmelites-and they didn’t work out either. I go to Perpetual Adoration and the Latin Mass, and that’s about all I do. I’m also not working at present-my last job was a temporary receptionist in an insurance office-and I’m living on checks from an IRA that I have. I spend most of my time in the local libraries, either using my laptop computer [no internet at home] or browsing through books on the shelves.

My life is pretty ‘blah’-I feel that my ‘best years’ are far behind me. I have two sisters, but I hardly see them [and I don’t want to because they are ‘heck-bent’ on wanting to sell the house where we grew up, and where I still live]. I used to have a dog as a companion, but my last one got sick and had to be put down in 2006, and I don’t have the means to get another one. And I’m not much into ‘volunteer stuff’-I just keep to myself.

Sorry if I seem to be derailing this thread-I need to ‘vent’ at times because I’m frustrated at how my life has gone…

 

[keep_trying]

All of us have so much in common!

Barb,
I share much with you: I’'ll be 53 next month, I’ve lived alone since I started working (and never married), I’m at a turning point in my life and very fuzzy about the rest, my cat died in 2007 and I can’t afford another one, I keep to myself, I haven’t been a volunteer, and I’m venting more in the rest of this post.(I read your post after I completed my original post below)​

Jeanette,

(Warning: I may be hijacking this thread with my own personal story here)

This thread has meant a lot to me, especially because your life is noticeably similar to mine.

30 years ago I graduated with a B.A. in Liberal Arts at a college basing its curriculum on the “great books”. The main focus was on philosophy and Catholic theology.

The educational method used at this college was not lectures, but rather a continual discussion based on reading the great books. Each class was lead by the professor (or “tutor”), but all students were strongly encouraged to participate. As quiet as I am, every tutor kept encouraging me to talk more, but I didn’t comply, and was very embarrassed. I was lucky that there were some written tests and essays to do, because otherwise I might not have done at all well… (I haven’t much changed; in a room full of people I’m so quiet that I feel like a rock.)

My senior thesis concerned a proof of St. Thomas for the existence of God. I wrote well enough that my thesis advisor (later college president) was unusually lavish in his praise. I think that some at the College assumed I would go on to philosopy or theology. But instead I chose a technical area (computer science), because of concerns (mine and my parents) about supporting myself later. (I was interested in math, but computer science seemed more practical. Like you, I didn’t want to teach). I then got my M.S. in computer science.

I worked 25 years as a software engineer. The work was challenging (sometimes overwhelming) and interesting, but I never was as enthused as my co-workers. I rarely felt “guilty” but I too had some real desire to write about theology, and to do it in such a way that “common” people (perhaps mainly myself) could understand. Sometimes my desire was almost a dream. I got as far as starting (20+ pages) some writing about a controversial topic among some Catholics (baptism of desire). But I didn’t have time & dawdled; the main person it was directed to left town, and others found a small pamphlet by someone else on the topic to be more than sufficient. I also write very slow (I have no clue how people here sometimes have hundreds and thousands of posts),

Then I lost my job…

I’ve been over 3 years without a job. I continued doing some writing while I was looking for a job. I didn’t do either very well.

Then I was in an auto accident (half way through the 3 years) and I broke my back (only I was hurt; and there was little pain & fast healing) and was “out of commission” for some months and lost my driver’s license for a year. I did minor writing during this time but mostly in forums like this one.

I saved enough from my high-paying job to live on for this time. I don’t really miss the “luxuries” but I am still very afraid of “running out of money”. But I haven’t been looking for a job (although I have classes lined up). I’m lazy and unenthused about going back to my old area of work (my past experience is out of date & I’ve forgotten much). But I’m lazy and seem to be little enthused or inspired about writing too. And the money issue just haunts me.

My house has been going to pot during all of this (clutter & dirt & maintenance). But I think this is mostly from laziness, which is affecting the rest of my life too.

I can’t help but think that the first thing God might want me to do is clean my house, while thinking and praying about my life. But I can’t get myself to move (at least not off the internet).

I am not married. It is hard for me to know what my “vocation” (mission, whether it is actualized as a career or in some other way). But some “sensible” voice says: “go back to computer science; you will learn & like it again, it will support you; God didn’t guide you through 25 years of it for no reason; it may be your “state in life” even though it has been interrupted… You can write a little too.” Maybe that IS the answer. I just need a spark to get me going… (But is that “sensible” voice really mine or God’s?)

As much as I want to find and do what God wants me to do in the future, I also want to learn to accept and be happy in what He has allowed for now - even if right now it is “floundering”. (God You blessed the broken road that lead me straight to You)

I do feel guilty about accomplishing so little in the years that are passing since I lost my job.

One saying I like: “God laughs at our plans”. He laughs lovingly about our little plans that will never be achieved because He has something “better in store”. He laughs at our grandiose plans that even if achieved are only a tiny part of His grand plan for us.

Thanks for listening.

 

[JeannetteCML]

Has anyone out there never been married but have expeienced what it is to fall in love with someone? You could go through and do just about anything with that person so long as it made you love grow and drew you closer together and helped strengthen that other’s needs. It didin’t feel like a duty and the suffering it involved was only a witness to how much you loved that person. There was try joy there. It brings me to post the lyrics from the Sound of Music when Maria is deciding whether she should go out into the world and leave her convent, and the Mother sings to her:

Climb every mountain,
Search high and low,
Follow every highway,
Every path you know.

Climb every mountain,
Ford every stream,
Follow every rainbow,
'Till you find your dream.

A dream that will need
All the love you can give,
Every day of your life
For as long as you live.

Climb every mountain,
Ford every stream,
Follow every rainbow,
Till you find your dream



Now I think that if you have some mission, or more importantly, you love someone, you would be motivated to live your life with joy. “A dream that will need all the love you can give…” I love** that part!! And if we do not have spouses we have God and neighbors. God can be the love of our lives, our dream. And He will always reciprocate our love and have things for us to do for him. That also reminds me of that song "Everything I Do I Do It For You, " by Bryan Adams. Every little thing. “All the time… all the way…” I think that if we got close to God and became intimate with God, sharing his loves and suffering out of direct compassion we would have joy. God should be the love of our lives and very near to us. And building the Kingdom of God should be to show that love in any way we can.

I read a little book entitled something like Discovering Your Personal Vocation I prayed about it. It’s by Herbert Alphonso S.J. and is about 75 pages. $7.95 bustedhalo.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=73 It’s a simple little exercise. And it came to me very clearly in my own unique way of understanding my faith and my life that my vocation was none other than the Kingdom of God. And it wasn’t just my little notion of the Kingdom. It was God’s big grand notion of the Kingdom that goes beyond even all of my hopes and understandings. I would recommend reading about references to the Kingdom in the Bible for inspirations for just what the Kingdom means. Then it doesn’t mean part of your life but your whole life that includes your vocations. But really, can’t it give us hope to walk hand in hand with God praying for our part in his master plan “on earth as it is in Heaven”–to have an all-loving lover, consoler, teaching and guide in Jesus Christ? Let the love of your life live with you and you will not struggle so hard inside or out.

 

[JeannetteCML]

Has anyone out there never been married but have expeienced what it is to fall in love with someone? You could go through and do just about anything with that person so long as it made you love grow and drew you closer together and helped strengthen that other’s needs. It didin’t feel like a duty and the suffering it involved was only a witness to how much you loved that person. There was try joy there. It brings me to post the lyrics from the Sound of Music when Maria is deciding whether she should go out into the world and leave her convent, and the Mother sings to her:

Climb every mountain,
Search high and low,
Follow every highway,
Every path you know.

Climb every mountain,
Ford every stream,
Follow every rainbow,
'Till you find your dream.

A dream that will need
All the love you can give,
Every day of your life
For as long as you live.

Climb every mountain,
Ford every stream,
Follow every rainbow,
Till you find your dream



Now I think that if you have some mission, or more importantly, you love someone, you would be motivated to live your life with joy. “A dream that will need all the love you can give…” I love** that part!! And if we do not have spouses we have God and neighbors. God can be the love of our lives, our dream. And He will always reciprocate our love and have things for us to do for him. That also reminds me of that song "Everything I Do I Do It For You, " by Bryan Adams. Every little thing. “All the time… all the way…” I think that if we got close to God and became intimate with God, sharing his loves and suffering out of direct compassion we would have joy. God should be the love of our lives and very near to us. And building the Kingdom of God should be to show that love in any way we can.

I read a little book entitled something like Discovering Your Personal Vocation I prayed about it. It’s by Herbert Alphonso S.J. and is about 75 pages. $7.95 bustedhalo.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=73 It’s a simple little exercise. And it came to me very clearly in my own unique way of understanding my faith and my life that my vocation was none other than the Kingdom of God. And it wasn’t just my little notion of the Kingdom. It was God’s big grand notion of the Kingdom that goes beyond even all of my hopes and understandings. I would recommend reading about references to the Kingdom in the Bible for inspirations for just what the Kingdom means. Then it doesn’t mean part of your life but your whole life that includes your vocations. But really, can’t it give us hope to walk hand in hand with God praying for our part in his master plan “on earth as it is in Heaven”–to have an all-loving lover, consoler, teaching and guide in Jesus Christ? Let the love of your life live with you and you will not struggle so hard inside or out.

Hmm… Well that spirituality lasted half a day. Maybe I’ll try it again tomorrow…

 

[pamkowal]

Jeanette wrote:
“Now I think that if you have some mission, or more importantly, you love someone, you would be motivated to live your life with joy.”

Dear Jeanette,
Living a life of joy does not require extrinsic motivation. Joy can exist independently of what is happening around you. You are able to feel love for someone only because you first feel it within *yourself *and then project that love onto someone or something else. Here’s a little exercise to practice:
Think of someone you loved very dearly (it can even be a pet). Picture them very clearly in your mind’s eye. Now focus your inner attention on your heart and recreate the feeling of love you felt when you felt the most connected to that person or animal. Remember the sensation of how your heart felt when it was so full of love? Like it was full of tenderness, delight, joy and gratitude that you had a relationship with this person? Now, hold onto the loving feelings but let go of the image of the person. Can you still feel the love? It’s not dependent on the person anymore, is it?
We often think that we need an external motivator from moment to moment to get us to the place of peace, joy, love, enthusiasm, etc., but in truth, these feelings are self-arising, originating from within, and can be called forth and harnessed with practice. If we constantly require outside 'triggers' to stimulate and direct uplifting qualities in our own hearts, we will always feel moments of depression, sadness, and 'flatness' because life is predicated on opposites--highs/lows, good/bad, happy/sad. If, however, we learn to feel complete within our own beings because we've learned to find That within us which is the witness consciousness and never changes, then all the love and 'purpose for living' will always be available to us. Do you meditate? It's such an essential practice for stopping the 'storyline' that the mind creates over and over, keeping us hooked on creating drama and dissatisfaction so that our egos have something to 'solve' to feel productive doing. Meditation provides a glimpse of the stillness and silence, the profound 'empty fullness' that is God. Until we learn to rest in this silence, we will spend our lives on a wild goose chasing after happiness and purpose outside ourselves, when, in truth, they are already present as self-originated feelings if we know how to bring them forth. Pam

 

[JeannetteCML]

Jeanette wrote:
“Now I think that if you have some mission, or more importantly, you love someone, you would be motivated to live your life with joy.”

Dear Jeanette,
Living a life of joy does not require extrinsic motivation. Joy can exist independently of what is happening around you. You are able to feel love for someone only because you first feel it within *yourself *and then project that love onto someone or something else. Here’s a little exercise to practice:
Think of someone you loved very dearly (it can even be a pet). Picture them very clearly in your mind’s eye. Now focus your inner attention on your heart and recreate the feeling of love you felt when you felt the most connected to that person or animal. Remember the sensation of how your heart felt when it was so full of love? Like it was full of tenderness, delight, joy and gratitude that you had a relationship with this person? Now, hold onto the loving feelings but let go of the image of the person. Can you still feel the love? It’s not dependent on the person anymore, is it?

 We often think that we need an external motivator from moment to moment to get us to the place of peace, joy, love, enthusiasm, etc., but in truth, these feelings are self-arising, originating from within, and can be called forth and harnessed with practice.  If we constantly require outside 'triggers' to stimulate and direct uplifting qualities in our own hearts, we will always feel moments of depression, sadness, and 'flatness' because life is predicated on opposites--highs/lows, good/bad, happy/sad.  If, however, we learn to feel complete within our own beings because we've learned to find That within us which is the witness consciousness and never changes, then all the love and 'purpose for living' will always be available to us. Do you meditate?  It's such an essential practice for stopping the 'storyline' that the mind creates over and over, keeping us hooked on creating drama and dissatisfaction so that our egos have something to 'solve' to feel productive doing.  Meditation provides a glimpse of the stillness and silence, the profound 'empty fullness' that is God.  Until we learn to rest in this silence, we will spend our lives on a wild goose chasing after happiness and purpose outside ourselves, when, in truth, they are already present as self-originated feelings if we know how to bring them forth.  Pam

I don’t like the idea of detaching the feeling of love or joy from the object itself. It seems to make having feelings for the sake of feelings a goal in itself. It makes one lose the relationality and the meaning that real joy comes from. It’s too empty and it sounds like you are just tricking yourself into feeling better. It’s not like I can have love for God, or want the feeling of love for God, outside of being related to God Himself, if God is the object of my love. Nor do I want to extract the happiness I feel about the beauty of another person just so I can keep it whenever I need it and just forget about the person himself. I don’t mind being so affected by other persons themselves. It’s part of what makes life wonderful and not artificial.

I agree that if you change your attitude or have certain thoughts, you can have some control over your feelings. But I don’t believe that I am the source of my own happiness and contentment. I believe that God is. God is both within us and outside of us. But God is not identical with us.

Now, I can have a certain attitude or belief that is steady within myself that can give me inner peace at some level in the midst of whatever outer circumstances there are. One can be “full” of grace and “empty” of selfish concerns. And although we can never merit grace, it is still our responsibility to actively try to be receptive and properly dispose ourselves. So, in that sense, yes, there is something we must “do,” especially since this is life on earth and not total contemplation yet. Contemplation, in any situation, is a gift from God.

Still, there are going to be ups and downs. And it’s alright with me if I experience them.

 

[JeannetteCML]

Pam, I’m sorry. I can tend to be simply analytical and critical in my responses. But I respect what seem to be core beliefs for you that you are sharing with me, and I know you are trying to help. I appreciate your contributions to this thread. And I’m glad what you have is working for you. There is probably some truth in it if it is–perhaps something I am looking for. I’m just not a Buddhist.

 

[nkbeth]

Jeanette,

You said

…And it came to me very clearly in my own unique way of understanding my faith and my life that my vocation was none other than the Kingdom of God. And it wasn’t just my little notion of the Kingdom. It was God’s big grand notion of the Kingdom that goes beyond even all of my hopes and understandings… Then it doesn’t mean part of your life but your whole life that includes your vocations. But really, can’t it give us hope to walk hand in hand with God praying for our part in his master plan “on earth as it is in Heaven”–to have an all-loving lover, consoler, teaching and guide in Jesus Christ? Let the love of your life live with you and you will not struggle so hard inside or out.

and earlier you said:

To be able to write was my purpose in studying theology. I’ve thought of being a writer ever since I was twelve.

I think you should be a writer, because you are worth reading!

 

[pamkowal]

I don’t like the idea of detaching the feeling of love or joy from the object itself. It seems to make having feelings for the sake of feelings a goal in itself. It makes one lose the relationality and the meaning that real joy comes from. It’s too empty and it sounds like you are just tricking yourself into feeling better. It’s not like I can have love for God, or want the feeling of love for God, outside of being related to God Himself, if God is the object of my love. Nor do I want to extract the happiness I feel about the beauty of another person just so I can keep it whenever I need it and just forget about the person himself. I don’t mind being so affected by other persons themselves. It’s part of what makes life wonderful and not artificial.

I agree that if you change your attitude or have certain thoughts, you can have some control over your feelings. But I don’t believe that I am the source of my own happiness and contentment. I believe that God is. God is both within us and outside of us. But God is not identical with us.

Now, I can have a certain attitude or belief that is steady within myself that can give me inner peace at some level in the midst of whatever outer circumstances there are. One can be “full” of grace and “empty” of selfish concerns. And although we can never merit grace, it is still our responsibility to actively try to be receptive and properly dispose ourselves. So, in that sense, yes, there is something we must “do,” especially since this is life on earth and not total contemplation yet. Contemplation, in any situation, is a gift from God.

Still, there are going to be ups and downs. And it’s alright with me if I experience them.

Dear Jeanette,
You misunderstood the intent of the exercise I described. I’m not suggesting that you disconnect yourself from relationships or that you don’t need them, nor am I suggesting that you have feelings for the sake of feelings as a goal in themselves. What I was trying to illustrate is that our feelings do not arise based on something we react to. They already exist independently as potential experiences within us and as such, are not dependent upon outside stimulus to be generated. Because we tend to think that it is something outside of ourselves that causes a feeling or reaction to arise, there can be a tendency to shift praise or blame onto someone else for the emotions we feel. Those outside influences are merely triggers and/or mirrors for what is already inside ourselves. When we love someone, even God, it is because he/she/It mirrors back to us our OWN inner beauty and love as we see it reflected in them. You said that you ‘don’t see yourself as the source of your own contentment and joy. You believe that God is. You believe that God is both within us and outside of us but we are not identical to Him.’ Here is where we differ in opinion. I, too, believe that God is the source of our contentment and joy. However, I believe this because I understand God to be the true essence of who I AM, beyond the limitations of my personality as Pam. God made us in His image and LIKE-NESS and therefore, just as a piece of apple pie is the same as the rest of the pie from which it was cut, we, too, are the same, on a soul level, as our maker who created us out of his own being-ness. This is the fundamental difference in approach between Western and Eastern spirituality, although I would argue that the Christian mystics recognized their oneness with their creator in much the same way that Eastern mystics have. ‘I am in God and God is in me, AS me (the eternal, unchanging, undifferentiated part of me)’ is how I relate to God within. It’s pointless to argue point of view; there are many ways to develop one’s relationship with God. The important thing is to HAVE an awareness of God’s presence in one’s life. There are many people who do not have this desire to have a profound relationship with God and so we can both feel incredibly blessed that God has made Himself known to us and that our relationship with Him forms the foundation of our lives. When we truly see God’s presence in everyone and everything as the substratum of form that breathes life into being, then we come to understand his divine will and protection. Otherwise, we are like flotsam and jetsam on the seas of life, tossed and thrown about by the winds of change without a harbor to call our home. All the best and God bless, Pam

 

[JeannetteCML]

Those outside influences are merely triggers and/or mirrors for what is already inside ourselves. When we love someone, even God, it is because he/she/It mirrors back to us our OWN inner beauty and love as we see it reflected in them.

I would have to disagree… When we love another person, it is that person’s beauty we are appreciating, not just our own.

You said that you ‘don’t see yourself as the source of your own contentment and joy. You believe that God is. You believe that God is both within us and outside of us but we are not identical to Him.’ Here is where we differ in opinion. I, too, believe that God is the source of our contentment and joy. However, I believe this because I understand God to be the true essence of who I AM, beyond the limitations of my personality as Pam. God made us in His image and LIKE-NESS and therefore, just as a piece of apple pie is the same as the rest of the pie from which it was cut, we, too, are the same, on a soul level, as our maker who created us out of his own being-ness. This is the fundamental difference in approach between Western and Eastern spirituality, although I would argue that the Christian mystics recognized their oneness with their creator in much the same way that Eastern mystics have. ‘I am in God and God is in me, AS me (the eternal, unchanging, undifferentiated part of me)’ is how I relate to God within.

Yes, Catholics believe that we are all made in the “image and likeness of God,” too. But the only human person who shares the essence of God is Jesus Christ, Himself, who is true God and true Man. “On a soul level,” we are unique beings distinct from God with our own personhood that God has given us. God and humans both have “being” in common, and our “being” is a gift from God. But we are not divine. We are not infinite. We have our own independent free will. We can do things that are God’s will, but we can also sin. A being that has the same essence as God cannot sin. It is true that God can be in you. And it is true, there is an immortal part of you. But your soul and your body will not be “eternal” or “unchanging” until you are in the next life after the resurrection of the body, where people are settled in either Heaven or Hell. If there is an “undifferentiated” part of you that you want to call your soul, it is still not indentical with God’s “soul.” And yes, I too, have read Christian mystics who have received great communion and unity with God. However, I cannot elaborate on how their “oneness” with God is in actuality similar or different than your “merging into the same being” as God other than to say that there can be a high level of intimacy without destroying the relationship of creature to Creator. (And to clarify, there is “Western and Eastern sprituality.” But for the sake of this forum, I would call it “Catholic or Buddhist”(although you are adding a God to your “Buddhism”) or “Catholic and something else” because there is a section for “Eastern Catholicism” on this forum, which, in its being “Eastern,” still does not reflect the kind of theology of “essence” and mysticism that you are describing. Perhaps for you, it is still “Western.” But I want to suggest that Catholicism is “universal” and not just eastern or western.)

It’s pointless to argue point of view; there are many ways to develop one’s relationship with God. The important thing is to HAVE an awareness of God’s presence in one’s life. There are many people who do not have this desire to have a profound relationship with God and so we can both feel incredibly blessed that God has made Himself known to us and that our relationship with Him forms the foundation of our lives. When we truly see God’s presence in everyone and everything as the substratum of form that breathes life into being, then we come to understand his divine will and protection. Otherwise, we are like flotsam and jetsam on the seas of life, tossed and thrown about by the winds of change without a harbor to call our home.

Well said. We are in agreement that God should be the “foundation” of our lives, and that is important. And I really don’t like to argue. But while I was a theology major as an undergrad, my global issues professor once told me that minute differences in opinion in theology and philosophy do not matter because, at their root, all religions are good and seek the same thing. Being a person who appreciates truth and precision, I could not agree with his remark. He may as well have told me to stop studying theology in any depth. I am a person who believes that thoughts have consequences, although I am happy to find any common ground with a person of a faith different than my own.

Anyway, thanks for all other posts. I am still thinking about them in an effort to clarify a sense of “vocation…” If this thread does continue, I hope it will do so along that path.

 

[JeannetteCML]

I don’t have words yet for all of you who are seeking. But I hope you continue to share and that people here can support your efforts. I am praying for all here that God be with each of you in your walk of life, that you all be given strength, courage, and direction, and grace to find God’s will, which is always possible. And I am praying in gratitude for the new attitudes, ideas and person’s here. I will still be churning away! I’m sure there is some truth I can take from each post, something God wants me to hear through you.

What do you think of that little “PUSH” acronym, “Pray Until Something Happens?”