An ancient cafeteria Catholic

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I doubt she’s going to go to hell because of her beliefs in purgatory or hell.
Depends on why she is rejecting the dogma. Since Christ is truth (John 14:6), obstinate rejection of truth of the faith is rejection of Christ. Depending on the degree of obstinance, there would be a certain irony if a person went to purgatory because they were making satisfaction for their doubt in the dogma of purgatory… :rolleyes:
 
Come on guys.

She may just merely be a little older and maybe confused

(not that all older people are confused I hasten to add - please don’t flame me!:frighten:)
 
Possibly ancient was a poor word choice. However, elderly, just didn’t seem right either. This is not a weak or fragile person, she has strength of will you wouldn’t believe. It takes chutzpah to say what she said to me, considering she knows I teach RCIA. She said these things directly to me, but there were several younger women listening to our conversation eating up everything she and I were conversing about. And I got the impression that if I had interrupted her to explain that she was in error, things would have gone over very badly and with the others listening I thought it best to remain silent. Believe me I have chutzpah myself, and I had started to say something, that’s when she interrupted me with the whole bastards thing and how she had been around to see it “all”, and I was not at all prepared to defend that. :rolleyes: The thing is those other women listening… maybe not as catechized as me, who she may be leading astray?? I really want to tell my priest, but I’m not sure how to tell him. Do I tell him who exactly told me that? etc. etc. It’s better off in his hands for sure.
 
To play the odd role (for me) of contrarian when it comes to such matters, my developed respect for the elderly and religious kicked in as I read this thread.

It is possible that given her advanced age and religious experience, she could be in a place on her spiritual journey where she sees purgatory and Divine Mercy as one and the same.

Our quest and need for Divine Mercy does not end with death. Is that not consistent even with a traditionally Latin Catholic understanding of purgatory?

Just a thought …
I wish that is what she had been saying, but, no she said there is no hell, no purgatory because of the Divine Mercy.
 
You can’t tell her that hell exists because of God’s mercy. Hell is eternal punishment – not only the absence of God, hope, and love, but torment we can’t imagine. Instead, tell her to speak of God’s mercy, but never to forget that God is just. Mercy is given unlimitedly to those who ask for it. It is not forced on those who do not desire it.
I think they mean in the sense that for someone who has definitively rejected God, being in His Presence would be vastly worse than being in hell. Hell is actually a form of God’s mercy that He allows those who reject Him to leave His Presence.
 
Come on guys.

She may just merely be a little older and maybe confused

(not that all older people are confused I hasten to add - please don’t flame me!:frighten:)
:rotfl:Ok, I will not flame you, even tho there is a good chance that I am older then you (even tho I don’t act like it sometimes!). :dancing::bounce::whacky:
 
Come on guys.

She may just merely be a little older and maybe confused

(not that all older people are confused I hasten to add - please don’t flame me!:frighten:)
Ya young whippersnapper! Here! Consider yerself duly flamed. http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/corona_stellarum/Smilies/flame.gif
:rotfl:Ok, I will not flame you, even tho there is a good chance that I am older then you (even tho I don’t act like it sometimes!). :dancing::bounce::whacky:
😃 But I will. http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/corona_stellarum/Smilies/Oldmanwithcane.gif
 
Gee, I’ve never in person met anyone who was convinced he or she is going straight to Heaven. (Lucky them! :D). But I have met other eccentrics who have some exclusive devotion to some private revelation, and are convinced that that will be like an indulgence or something. (Those people also tend to be very scrupulous.) When they try to hook me into their devotion, I just listen and smile and nod, and say “How interesting. Sounds like you have found something that really works for you and is a pathway to prayer.”

As to the Divine Mercy, if someone claimed that DM devotion was equivalent to a door to Heaven, instantly, I would merely say that no doubt they are much holier than I am, because I’m sure I will have reparations to complete still at the end of my life. Sometimes when you turn it in on yourself, people wake up and can relate to the reality that we are all sinners, and it’s incongruous to be claiming a special exception. We all deep down know our sinfulness and unworthiness, and that we cannot presume upon God’s mercy. (I would also probably use the word “presume” with her. It might ring a bill.)

But I agree with other posters: I would not engage in direct intellectual argument or contradiction (especially because she might get defensive if she’s really entrenched.) I would just confidently express my own knowledge of my sinfulness and how much I will need purification for not just recent sins but my many forgotten sins of so many years past, which I will recollect clearly once again at my Particular Judgment. (Reparation for “sins long past” might ring a bell for her because of her age.)

There’s also another real possibility, and that is that this whole “confidence” thing masks a deep anxiety about her age and the greater proximity of the end of her life. It might be a way of her coping with that anxiety by comforting herself, combined with a little denial. And if so, that would be another reason that “correcting” her is something she would find disturbing, and an effort she might vigorously work against.
Just a thought.
🤷

In fact, if I happened to know the pastor well and had an open relationship with him (if he were very approachable), I might actually say something like, “I wonder if (we’ll call her “Ann”) is beginning to be anxious about her age because she keeps talking about…” (etc.); I’m a little concerned about her and whether she’s deflecting her concerns about that. Just making you aware of this, Father; you might want to check in with her."

This would be a wonderful pastoral opportunity for him, and I can’t imagine any priest I know not seeing this as an opportunity for some pastoral initiative. 🙂
 
Come on guys.

She may just merely be a little older and maybe confused

(not that all older people are confused I hasten to add - please don’t flame me!:frighten:)
I am older and confused… but I have been confused since I was young 😉
 
How can she believe in the Divine Mercy, but not believe what Jesus taught us about Hell and Purgatory?

Sighhhhhh.
 
Re Hell:
Those who go to hell are (eternally) unrepentent sinners in very grave/evil ways.
Among the other good replies, I might add, ask her* “And what about God’s Divine Mercy for those faithful who are with Him in heaven? Would it be ‘merciful’ of God to subject these faithful to an eternity in the presence of evil people - people who continue to behave wickedly in the next life?”*

Re Purgatory:
I would first ask her how she defines Purgatory, or what she thinks the Church teaches about Purgatory. Perhaps she has a faulty understanding of Church teaching. If that turns out to be the case, be ready to give her the correct Church teaching. (CCC 1030-1032; 1472-1473)

IMO, this should be done privately and not in front of others. If, afterwards, she continues to speak contrary to the Church’s teaching to others, then I would interject.

But, if it happens again in front of others before you have a chance to speak privately with her, then I would interject. When something similar happened to me (a faith study group situation where the leader was saying things contrary to a Church teaching), I just posed the question to the person* “But isn’t the Church’s official teaching …?” The person was honest enough to respond “Yes”. *And that ended any further conversation contrary to that Church teaching.
 
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