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Daniel_Marsh
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John 1:1 (King James Version)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
In short, the Word was Face to Face with God !!!
PROS
with the acc[usative] of a person, after verbs of remaining, dwelling, tarrying, etc. (which require one to be conceived of as always turned towards one)…after EIMI…Jn i.1 (Thayer).
be (in company) with someone…J 1:1f (BAGD).
a marker of association, often with the implication of interrelationships…‘the Word was with God’ Jn 1:1 (Louw & Nida)
Some commentators, such as JFB, above, see PROS in this verse as shorthand for the idiomatic expression PROSÔPON PROS PROSÔPON (**literally “face to face” **. This seems view is given weight by the context, in which the Son is said to be “in the bosom of the Father” (v. 1 , and thus in the ideal position to declare the Father to the world.
forananswer.org/John/Jn1_1.htm
forananswer.org/ABC_Index.htm
We have an early church manual called the Teaching of the Twleve which tells us exactly how they did baptism.
John 1:1c is NOT saying the “Word was the Father” as they read it. For their interpretation to be vaild in the greek it would require an extra article in front of theos, God, it is not there.
In short, the use of theos is qualitative in grammar which means. John is saying that the nature of the logos, word is divine. John 1:1b plainly tells us that the “word was face to face with God” thus seperating him from the person of the God the Father.
The correct understanding of this text in the greek is,
“In the beginning of all creation, the Word was already in existence. The Word was intimately [face to face] with God. And the Word was as to His essence, God.”
To simpfly the greek argument, John 1:1c would have to read “the word is the God” or “ho logos en ho theos”, that is not in any greek manuscript.
**theos en ho logos: This is what John actually wrote. **This differs from (1) in that it makes the word theios qualitative. It’s meaning is something like the New English Bible’s translation: “What the Word was, God was.” Moffat, Goodspeed, and other scholars have translated the **qualitative **word “God” using words like “divine” or “deity” but what they are trying to express with these words is prone to misunderstanding. Their meaning is in keeping with the NEB, that “divine” or “deity” refers to the unique divinity of the one True God.
ho logos theos en: This would have the same meaning but a different emphasis than the previous list item. This version would put the emphasis on the Word rather than on the nature he possessed.
ho logos hen theos: This would mean that the word was a divine being of some kind - perhaps like an angel.
ho logos hen theios: Similar in meaning to the last clause. Uses an adjective theios rather than a noun theos.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
In short, the Word was Face to Face with God !!!
Quote:
the Word was with God—The preposition translated** “with” **is pros. In Koine Greek pros (short for prosôpon pros prosôpon, “face to face” was used to show intimacy in personal relationships (see Matt. 13:56; 26:18; Mark 6:3; 14:49; 1 Cor. 13:12; 6:10; 2 Cor. 5:8; Gal.1:1 . Thus, for John to say “the Word was with God” was for him to mean “the Word was face to face with God” (see Williams’s translation) or “the Word was having intimate fellowship with God.” This speaks of the preincarnate Son’s relationship with the Father prior to creation—in fact, prior to everything (see 1:18; 17:5, 24)…PROS
with the acc[usative] of a person, after verbs of remaining, dwelling, tarrying, etc. (which require one to be conceived of as always turned towards one)…after EIMI…Jn i.1 (Thayer).
be (in company) with someone…J 1:1f (BAGD).
a marker of association, often with the implication of interrelationships…‘the Word was with God’ Jn 1:1 (Louw & Nida)
Some commentators, such as JFB, above, see PROS in this verse as shorthand for the idiomatic expression PROSÔPON PROS PROSÔPON (**literally “face to face” **. This seems view is given weight by the context, in which the Son is said to be “in the bosom of the Father” (v. 1 , and thus in the ideal position to declare the Father to the world.
forananswer.org/John/Jn1_1.htm
forananswer.org/ABC_Index.htm
We have an early church manual called the Teaching of the Twleve which tells us exactly how they did baptism.
Quote:
Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism. And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have no living water, baptize into other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, do so in warm. But if you have neither, pour out water three times upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whoever else can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.
earlychristianwriting…berts.htmlJohn 1:1c is NOT saying the “Word was the Father” as they read it. For their interpretation to be vaild in the greek it would require an extra article in front of theos, God, it is not there.
In short, the use of theos is qualitative in grammar which means. John is saying that the nature of the logos, word is divine. John 1:1b plainly tells us that the “word was face to face with God” thus seperating him from the person of the God the Father.
The correct understanding of this text in the greek is,
“In the beginning of all creation, the Word was already in existence. The Word was intimately [face to face] with God. And the Word was as to His essence, God.”
To simpfly the greek argument, John 1:1c would have to read “the word is the God” or “ho logos en ho theos”, that is not in any greek manuscript.
Quote:
ho logos en ho theos: The logos (the Word) and theos (God) are completely equivalent and interchangeable - they are identically the same. This is how most people mistakenly read the verse. If this had been what John had written, then we would not believe in the Trinity today. Rather, we would be monarchists.**theos en ho logos: This is what John actually wrote. **This differs from (1) in that it makes the word theios qualitative. It’s meaning is something like the New English Bible’s translation: “What the Word was, God was.” Moffat, Goodspeed, and other scholars have translated the **qualitative **word “God” using words like “divine” or “deity” but what they are trying to express with these words is prone to misunderstanding. Their meaning is in keeping with the NEB, that “divine” or “deity” refers to the unique divinity of the one True God.
ho logos theos en: This would have the same meaning but a different emphasis than the previous list item. This version would put the emphasis on the Word rather than on the nature he possessed.
ho logos hen theos: This would mean that the word was a divine being of some kind - perhaps like an angel.
ho logos hen theios: Similar in meaning to the last clause. Uses an adjective theios rather than a noun theos.