An Atheist's Letter

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Hey guys. I came across this letter on another forum site. The letter itself was not written by someone on this other site; rather it was copied and pasted there–so I don’t know its exact origins. However, the sarcasm of this letter is penetrating. It charges actions (often divinely mandated) in both the Old and New Testaments as barbaric when compared with the atheistic morality. I’m a little confused why God allowed some of these things in the Old Testament to go unpunished, and why they now seem very sinful to us today. Please help me understand why rape and terrible murder occurs so frequently in the Old Testament. Thanks!

Here’s the Atheist’s letter:

I am writing this letter concerning Christian Morality. I, personally, am an Atheist and a Vegetarian. I believe in no God and I do not eat meat. However, I am envious of Christian Morality and only wish I could attain it.

Your morality is really lovely. Of course, not all of us can have your outstanding morality in the Bible. I’m sorry that we do not enslave Africans or animals (Exodus 21:2-6; Leviticus 25:44-46), sell our daughters (Exodus 21:7), kill witches (Exodus 22:18), kill heretics (Exodus 22:20), kill violators of the sabbath (Exodus 31:14-15, Exodus 35:2), kill children who curse their parents (Leviticus 20:9), force raped women to marry their rapists (Dueteronomy 22:28), kill adulterers (Leviticus 20:10), kill blasphemers (Leviticus 24:16), or kill unchaste women (Deuteronomy 22:20-21). I am sorry. I’m sorry that we don’t worship a God who creates evil over cities (Amos 3:6), creates evil for all (Lamentations 3:38), makes weal and creates woe (Isaiah 45:6-7), utterly destroys cities of men and women, young and old, oxen, sheep, and asses (Joshua 6:21), commands us through prophets to rape children (Chapter 31 of Numbers), kills 70,000 people for David taking a census (2 Samuel 24:1), sent two bears to kill 42 children for making fun of a prophet (2 Kings 2:23-24), and demands and sanctions human sacrifices (Leviticus 27:28-29, Judges 11:29-40, 2 Samuel 21:1-19). I am sorry that my God does not continue his morality as an absolute (Malachi 3:6) and I am sorry that my saviour doesn’t tell me to follow all these old rules of murder and rape (Matthew 5:17). I only wish I had your morality…[editted for content] … I only wish that I could kill a cow and eat its flesh and get pleasure from such an act. I am sorry, but you and your Christianity must be better than me.

(end of letter)
 
huh…sorry this person doesn’t have the common sense to realize that if christians did all of those things now, then there would be no christians left. I’m also sorry that this person does not know that the people s/he is refering to are actaully jewish, I’m sorry that person can’t realize tat the old testament was written thousands of years ago, when they were laws. I’m sorry this person can’t figure out the s/he probably descended from some of these people in some way, shape or form. And I’m sorry that this person has been so incredibly misinformed about atheism. Apparently s/he has a God and a savior…sorry s/he doesn’t own a dictionary.
 
In less than 4000 characters? I’m sorry this person has such a sick view of biblical history and a perverse method of interpretation, with no regard for context. Perhaps he would hold up as moral the very thing that God was opposed to, the very reason for some of those things that occured. But I am not about to pick apart each and every verse and waste the time it would take on someone who is not the least bit interested in changing their life. This person hs created God into his own image, and his god is boring.
 
Hi,

Is the Christian religion the cause of evils in the world? Are there bad Christians? Are there millions of good Christians working hard to aid the poor and needy of the world? What does Christianity teach us about how we should treat our fellow man? What did this man Jesus teach us by His words and deeds?
These are the sorts of questions this atheist should ask.
The person is obviously very bitter and spiritually sick.
I feel sorry for that person.

Yours in Jesus, Mary and Joseph

John
 
I’m sorry that we do not enslave Africans or animals (Exodus 21:2-6; Leviticus 25:44-46),
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  • *There is no mention of “African slaves” in any of the verses, but what he is doing is equating the slavery of the American south over 100 years ago with the same kind of slavery. It ain’t so. There is absolutely no comparison. There is a long list of obligations for slave owners in the bible, and plenty of rights that Blacks did not have, and it was a temporary servitude, something your bigoted atheist forgets to mention.
That’s just an example. A careful study of these verses shows how much God love his people, and wanted to protect them from the evils of idolatrous nations.

His issue is not with Christianity, but with Judaism. And anti-Semitism is on the rise.
 
This person obviously needs to do more work in that era of history. There were other “nations” who did worse, like sacrificing babies to their god, Molech. And nevermind what the Egyptians did to the Israelites when they were their slaves. Remember the Egyptians worshipped animals, the Isrealites sacrificed animals, (especially bulls the Egyptian fertility god).

Whoever this person is s/he has a need to feel superior. Just like the Ancient Egyptains.
 
there are scores of things recorded in the Old Testament. not all of them are for ‘example’. many of them are recorded just to show that life is complicated, and that although we humans tend to screw everything up repeatedly, God brings us back to Him, over and over.

like others have said, there is something wrong with most of the atheist’s arguments. mostly, though, it’s looking at the world through the lens created by 2000 years of christianity (ironic, that) that is causing this atheist so much trouble. he sees these things as wrong. why? to what does he compare it? if he’s an atheist, what rule of morality does he use? he is, in fact, using the rule of morality created and endorsed by the last couple millenia of christianity. none of the peoples in the OT times had any problem with killing people for various reasons - infidelity, dishonoring parents, etc. why do we think that killing is wrong today?

because of the very christianity that mr atheist is decrying. 🙂
 
I would echo the comments that others have made, and also add that no atheist should be wagging his finger in the face of any Christian: atheist regimes have claimed more lives in the last century alone (150-200 million) than centuries and centuries of conflict put together. Truly, when God is gone the killing REALLY gets going, and with the added wrinkle that atheists often kill their own people.
 
My thought.

Why is it that Atheists as a rule are strict fundamentalists with the Bible, and assume that all Christians are too?

Fundamentalists are a very small but highly vocal minority within Christianity as a whole.

Why can’t the atheists do battle with the normal mainstream of Christianity, instead of choosing to oppose a not too educated small minority of Christians?
 
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Madaglan:
Here’s the Atheist’s letter:

I am writing this letter concerning Christian Morality. I, personally, am an Atheist and a Vegetarian. I believe in no God and I do not eat meat. However, I am envious of Christian Morality and only wish I could attain it.

Your morality is really lovely. Of course, not all of us can have your outstanding morality in the Bible. I’m sorry that we do not enslave Africans or animals (Exodus 21:2-6; Leviticus 25:44-46), sell our daughters (Exodus 21:7), kill witches (Exodus 22:18), kill heretics (Exodus 22:20), kill violators of the sabbath (Exodus 31:14-15, Exodus 35:2), kill children who curse their parents (Leviticus 20:9), force raped women to marry their rapists (Dueteronomy 22:28), kill adulterers (Leviticus 20:10), kill blasphemers (Leviticus 24:16), or kill unchaste women (Deuteronomy 22:20-21). I am sorry. I’m sorry that we don’t worship a God who creates evil over cities (Amos 3:6), creates evil for all (Lamentations 3:38), makes weal and creates woe (Isaiah 45:6-7), utterly destroys cities of men and women, young and old, oxen, sheep, and asses (Joshua 6:21), commands us through prophets to rape children (Chapter 31 of Numbers), kills 70,000 people for David taking a census (2 Samuel 24:1), sent two bears to kill 42 children for making fun of a prophet (2 Kings 2:23-24), and demands and sanctions human sacrifices (Leviticus 27:28-29, Judges 11:29-40, 2 Samuel 21:1-19). I am sorry that my God does not continue his morality as an absolute (Malachi 3:6) and I am sorry that my saviour doesn’t tell me to follow all these old rules of murder and rape (Matthew 5:17). I only wish I had your morality…[editted for content] … I only wish that I could kill a cow and eat its flesh and get pleasure from such an act. I am sorry, but you and your Christianity must be better than me.

(end of letter)
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Humility is certainly not one of atheism’s strong suits but self-righteousness certainly is.

What can you say about Stalin’s morality then? His humanitarian record is certainly not something any atheist would be proud of.

Gerry 🙂
 
Boppysbud,

You wrote: “Why can’t the atheists do battle with the normal mainstream of Christianity, instead of choosing to oppose a not too educated small minority of Christians?”

Well, I suspect you already know the answer: it’s easier to do battle with a not-too-educated-small-minority than with a tradition that has intellectual heavyweights such as Aquinas, Newman, and co. in its ranks.
 
Written by Madaglan : Here’s the Atheist’s letter:

"I am writing this letter concerning Christian Morality. I, personally, am an Atheist and a Vegetarian. I believe in no God and I do not eat meat. However, I am envious of Christian Morality and only wish I could attain it.
[snip]
" I am sorry that my God does not continue his morality as an absolute (Malachi 3:6) and I am sorry that my saviour doesn’t tell me to follow all these old rules of murder and rape (Matthew 5:17). I only wish I had your morality…[editted for content] … I only wish that I could kill a cow and eat its flesh and get pleasure from such an act. I am sorry, but you and your Christianity must be better than me.
(end of letter)"
**
*It seems to me that author of this letter is playing a hoax in an effort to get a reaction. I don’t think whoever wrote this letter is an athiest at all. How can he/she state ‘I don’t believe in God’ then turns around in the last paragraph and state ‘my God’ and ‘my savior’ ? ** *
**
*I’m beginning to wonder if this letter was really written to provoke an attack against athiests, which would be wrong in the eyes of God. God wants us to love mankind. *
**
*And, the person who pulled this prank was obviously without a lick of sense and extremely insensitive. Well, I have the satisfaction of ‘knowing’ God will deal with them one on one. *
**
*Amen it is done, saith my Lord. *
**
**
“Hear me, all of you, and understand. There is nothing outside a man that, entering into him, can defile him; but the things that come out of a man, these are what defile a man. If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear.” Jesus speaks to the crowd ~ Mark, Chapt. 7, Ver. 14 -16.

**

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  • *
 
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ISABUS:
It seems to me that author of this letter is playing a hoax in an effort to get a reaction. I don’t think whoever wrote this letter is an athiest at all. How can he/she state ‘I don’t believe in God’ then turns around in the last paragraph and state ‘my God’ and ‘my savior’ ?

*I’m beginning to wonder if this letter was really written to provoke an attack against athiests, which would be wrong in the eyes of God. God wants us to love mankind. *

*And, the person who pulled this prank was obviously without a lick of sense and extremely insensitive. Well, I have the satisfaction of ‘knowing’ God will deal with them one on one. *
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Likewise I don’t believe the writer is even a Christian. His letter is simply a sarcastic litany of attacks on Christian morality which is usually mouthed by anti-Christian polemicists.

Gerry 🙂
 
Even as an outspoken atheist, I wouldn’t write a letter like this.

Having said that, I note with interest that the fundamental question asked in the opening post has not been answered:
I’m a little confused why God allowed some of these things in the Old Testament to go unpunished, and why they now seem very sinful to us today. Please help me understand why rape and terrible murder occurs so frequently in the Old Testament.
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In other words, attacking the morality of atheists (as individuals or as a group) or committing the “no true Christian” fallacy are evasions.
 
I’m currently attempting to read the bible cover to cover. I’m only on Exodus thus far but have already read most of the New Testament.

Regretfully, I do not think there have been any really good counters to this Atheist letter thus far in this thread. 😦

I hope I do not walk away from my effort feeling as this Atheist does.
Hopefully the answers are in the context. But, as written, it sure is disturbing.
 
[Wolpertinger wrote: Even as an outspoken atheist, I wouldn’t write a letter like this.[/color]

Having said that, I note with interest that the fundamental question asked in the opening post has not been answered:

Quote:
“I’m a little confused why God allowed some of these things in the Old Testament to go unpunished, and why they now seem very sinful to us today. Please help me understand why rape and terrible murder occurs so frequently in the Old Testament”

In other words, attacking the morality of atheists (as individuals or as a group) or committing the “no true Christian” fallacy are evasions. ]

Hello Wolpertinger,

You appear to be an intelligent person. I’m wondering why you won’t spend the time doing extensive research into this question presented (highlighted in blue) and bring back to us “the” answer/s? Would you terribly mind? As you must already know, the Internet provides a world of information.

I’ve often found in the past that providing answers for people won’t have the lasting value as when they discover the truth for him/her self. Of course, it may take you at least a few days. And remember, don’t believe all that you read while surfing the worldwide net. Make sure to triple check resources!

Best of wishes ~ I’ll be looking forward to your presentation of web links that will enable us to review what you thought would provide us the best information. 🙂

Thank you,

Mary

(Oh, by the way I have quite a few friends that are atheists and love them dearly.)
 
THIS GUY IS NOT THE ,“SALT/FLAVOR,” of the EARTH…

At the time and context of the SALT analogy, there WAS no PROCESSED SUGAR CANE, and PROCESSED VEGATABLE OILS… Food was WHAT IT WAS, sometimes, meaningless and bland, absolutely NO FLAVOR or MEANING 😃 !
 
In debating with people on another forum site, I have found some precious information. For one, most of the accusations made by the atheist pertain to the Old Law. The atheist falsely believes that laws set down by God in books like Leviticus are still to be followed verbatim. In reality, the New Law, the perfection of divine law on earth and which came about with Christ, is above the Old Law, which was in many respects imperfect (although it did contain some truths later confirmed by the New Law) and was simply a preparation for the New Law. The Old Law, as written in the Old Testament, must be compared with the New and perfect Law. If portions of the Old Law do not conform with the New Law, then those portions of the Old Law must be reinterpreted in light of the New Law established in the New Covenant. The CCC was especially helpful in helping me understand this, especially CCC 1961-1973:
II. THE OLD LAW
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[1961](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1961.htm’)😉 God, our Creator and Redeemer, chose Israel for himself to be his people and revealed his Law to them, thus preparing for the coming of Christ. The Law of Moses expresses many truths naturally accessible to reason. These are stated and authenticated within the covenant of salvation.
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[1962](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1962.htm’)😉 The Old Law is the first stage of revealed Law. Its moral prescriptions are summed up in the Ten Commandments. The precepts of the Decalogue lay the foundations for the vocation of man fashioned in the image of God; they prohibit what is contrary to the love of God and neighbor and prescribe what is essential to it. The Decalogue is a light offered to the conscience of every man to make God’s call and ways known to him and to protect him against evil:
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God wrote on the tables of the Law what men did not read in their hearts.13
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[1963](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1963.htm’)😉 According to Christian tradition, the Law is holy, spiritual, and good,14 yet still imperfect. Like a tutor15 it shows what must be done, but does not of itself give the strength, the grace of the Spirit, to fulfill it. Because of sin, which it cannot remove, it remains a law of bondage. According to St. Paul, its special function is to denounce and disclose sin, which constitutes a “law of concupiscence” in the human heart.16 However, the Law remains the first stage on the way to the kingdom. It prepares and disposes the chosen people and each Christian for conversion and faith in the Savior God. It provides a teaching which endures for ever, like the Word of God.
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[1964](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1964.htm’)😉 The Old Law is a preparation for the Gospel. "The Law is a pedagogy and a prophecy of things to come."17 It prophesies and presages the work of liberation from sin which will be fulfilled in Christ: it provides the New Testament with images, “types,” and symbols for expressing the life according to the Spirit. Finally, the Law is completed by the teaching of the sapiential books and the prophets which set its course toward the New Covenant and the Kingdom of heaven.
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There were . . . under the regimen of the Old Covenant, people who possessed the charity and grace of the Holy Spirit and longed above all for the spiritual and eternal promises by which they were associated with the New Law. Conversely, there exist carnal men under the New Covenant still distanced from the perfection of the New Law: the fear of punishment and certain temporal promises have been necessary, even under the New Covenant, to incite them to virtuous works. In any case, even though the Old Law prescribed charity, it did not give the Holy Spirit, through whom "God’s charity has been poured into our hearts."18 (continued next post)
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🙂
 
there is another active thread on this very quote, so check out some other helpful responses. We are not called upon to justify any action of God, he is his own justification, nor are we called upon to justify the Hebrew people and their interpretation of the meaning of God’s interventions in their history, the Jews have a long history of scholarship and tradition that does this. We are called upon to believe the fullness of God as revealed in the Trinity in the person of Jesus Christ, this revelation interpreted by the Catholic Church infallibly through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Life is to short to waste your time with scripture exegesis from any other source.
 
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III. THE NEW LAW OR THE LAW OF THE GOSPEL
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[1965](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1965.htm’)😉 The New Law or the Law of the Gospel is the perfection here on earth of the divine law, natural and revealed. It is the work of Christ and is expressed particularly in the Sermon on the Mount. It is also the work of the Holy Spirit and through him it becomes the interior law of charity: "I will establish a New Covenant with the house of Israel. . . . I will put my laws into their hands, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people."19

[1966](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1966.htm’)😉 The New Law is the grace of the Holy Spirit given to the faithful through faith in Christ. It works through charity; it uses the Sermon on the Mount to teach us what must be done and makes use of the sacraments to give us the grace to do it:

If anyone should meditate with devotion and perspicacity on the sermon our Lord gave on the mount, as we read in the Gospel of Saint Matthew, he will doubtless find there . . . the perfect way of the Christian life. . . . This sermon contains . . . all the precepts needed to shape one’s life.20

[1967](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1967.htm’)😉 The Law of the Gospel “fulfills,” refines, surpasses, and leads the Old Law to its perfection.21 In the Beatitudes, the New Law fulfills the divine promises by elevating and orienting them toward the “kingdom of heaven.” It is addressed to those open to accepting this new hope with faith - the poor, the humble, the afflicted, the pure of heart, those persecuted on account of Christ and so marks out the surprising ways of the Kingdom.

[1968](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1968.htm’)😉 The Law of the Gospel fulfills the commandments of the Law. The Lord’s Sermon on the Mount, far from abolishing or devaluing the moral prescriptions of the Old Law, releases their hidden potential and has new demands arise from them: it reveals their entire divine and human truth. It does not add new external precepts, but proceeds to reform the heart, the root of human acts, where man chooses between the pure and the impure,22 where faith, hope, and charity are formed and with them the other virtues. The Gospel thus brings the Law to its fullness through imitation of the perfection of the heavenly Father, through forgiveness of enemies and prayer for persecutors, in emulation of the divine generosity.23

[1969](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1969.htm’)😉 The New Law practices the acts of religion: almsgiving, prayer and fasting, directing them to the “Father who sees in secret,” in contrast with the desire to "be seen by men."24 Its prayer is the Our Father.25

[1970](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1970.htm’)😉 The Law of the Gospel requires us to make the decisive choice between “the two ways” and to put into practice the words of the Lord.26 It is summed up in the Golden Rule, "Whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them; this is the law and the prophets."27

The entire Law of the Gospel is contained in the “new commandment” of Jesus, to love one another as he has loved us.28

**
 
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