An embarrassment of (liturgical) riches

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Hello everyone, I’m at a bit of a spiritual crossroads. I became a Catholic through the door of the Latin Church, and as such, I’ve had more in-person experience with the Ordinary Form. However, I’ve now come to a point where I’ll eventually move into either an Extraordinary Form parish, or an Eastern Catholic one. Any of these parishes I’ve visited thus far (only a few) are quite far away, but if I can get a better job further south, I’ll be much closer.

With all that said, I’m still extremely unsure about which ritual direction to go :). I’ve discovered:

(1) I think I know about the Extraordinary Form / classic Catholic culture, but upon actually attending the EF, I was caught a little off guard (probably a good thing?).
(2) The non-Byzantine Eastern Catholics are really intriguing me (i.e. Syriac liturgy and theology), but I think that part of this is my little bias against the Byzantines (I imbibed some Eastern Orthodox polemic while I was making my way to the Catholic Church). So I don’t know whether the riches of the Latin Church is keeping me in the Latin camp, or whether it’s my own familiarity with Western culture.

Any suggestions? 😃
 
There is no right or wrong. go where you feel the Spirit lead you.
 
There also exists, within the Latin Church, many spiritual movements that you might find appealing to your spiritual senses. Monastic, mendicant, charismatic, etc.

I myself am extremely drawn to beautiful and traditional liturgies. It partly explains why I became an oblate of a monastery of the Solesmes congregation, that takes liturgy very seriously. Although they use the Ordinary Form and a reformed Monastic breviary (all 150 psalms in one week), on the other hand they do it with Gregorian chant, incense and pipe organ when appropriate, processions, adoration, the works. They in fact prove that tradition doesn’t stop at the Extraordinary Form, but could be made to seamlessly transition into the Ordinary Form. Modern, yet embracing tradition.
 
OraLabora: That universal and widespread nature of the Latin Church is what makes me feel a little sheepish for hanging my hat on it. Everyone it seems is familiar with it, and countless souls have adorned it, while if I woke up one day as Coptic Catholic or Jacobite Orthodox, far fewer would even have any idea of who I was.

However, being an introvert by nature, I do like the idea of being part of such an active, world-changing enterprise :D…
 
fons_vitae said:
Hello everyone, I’m at a bit of a spiritual crossroads. I became a Catholic through the door of the Latin Church, and as such, I’ve had more in-person experience with the Ordinary Form. However, I’ve now come to a point where I’ll eventually move into either an Extraordinary Form parish, or an Eastern Catholic one. Any of these parishes I’ve visited thus far (only a few) are quite far away, but if I can get a better job further south, I’ll be much closer.

With all that said, I’m still extremely unsure about which ritual direction to go :). I’ve discovered:

(1) I think I know about the Extraordinary Form / classic Catholic culture, but upon actually attending the EF, I was caught a little off guard (probably a good thing?).
(2) The non-Byzantine Eastern Catholics are really intriguing me (i.e. Syriac liturgy and theology), but I think that part of this is my little bias against the Byzantines (I imbibed some Eastern Orthodox polemic while I was making my way to the Catholic Church). So I don’t know whether the riches of the Latin Church is keeping me in the Latin camp, or whether it’s my own familiarity with Western culture.

Any suggestions? 😃
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Have you attended one of the Ordinariate parishes around Dallas/Fortworth? There are several, also one in Arlington. Although each parish is allowed some differences in their liturgy, the basics are the same, i.e. Prayers at the Foot of the Altar, Asperges and the Last Gospel include some prayers vs a parish which chooses not to use them. Some are very close to the EF Mass, however, in the vernacular, maybe with some Latin. The Anglican Use is part of the Latin Rite including some prayers from the Anglican tradition.

From your thread I am not sure exactly what you are looking for. Except for St. Mary the Virgin, Arlington, I assume the congregations are quite small. From my experience their liturgy is very reverent and traditional.

God Bless

Bernadette
 
fons_vitae said:
Hello everyone, I’m at a bit of a spiritual crossroads. I became a Catholic through the door of the Latin Church, and as such, I’ve had more in-person experience with the Ordinary Form. However, I’ve now come to a point where I’ll eventually move into either an Extraordinary Form parish, or an Eastern Catholic one. Any of these parishes I’ve visited thus far (only a few) are quite far away, but if I can get a better job further south, I’ll be much closer.

With all that said, I’m still extremely unsure about which ritual direction to go :). I’ve discovered:

(1) I think I know about the Extraordinary Form / classic Catholic culture, but upon actually attending the EF, I was caught a little off guard (probably a good thing?).
(2) The non-Byzantine Eastern Catholics are really intriguing me (i.e. Syriac liturgy and theology), but I think that part of this is my little bias against the Byzantines (I imbibed some Eastern Orthodox polemic while I was making my way to the Catholic Church). So I don’t know whether the riches of the Latin Church is keeping me in the Latin camp, or whether it’s my own familiarity with Western culture.

Any suggestions? 😃
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I know that there is a small Eastern Catholic church in the Colony, isn’t that near Dallas?
 
BernadetteM said:
Have you attended one of the Ordinariate parishes around Dallas/Fortworth? There are several, also one in Arlington. Although each parish is allowed some differences in their liturgy, the basics are the same, i.e. Prayers at the Foot of the Altar, Asperges and the Last Gospel include some prayers vs a parish which chooses not to use them. Some are very close to the EF Mass, however, in the vernacular, maybe with some Latin. The Anglican Use is part of the Latin Rite including some prayers from the Anglican tradition.

From your thread I am not sure exactly what you are looking for. Except for St. Mary the Virgin, Arlington, I assume the congregations are quite small. From my experience their liturgy is very reverent and traditional.

God Bless

Bernadette
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Excellent idea–these almost slipped my mind…
 
fons_vitae said:
Excellent idea–these almost slipped my mind…
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If you do attend, please let us know if the liturgy is closer to what helps your spiritual life.

The former Bishop Vann of Fort Worth helped to establish several Ordinariate parishes before he moved to Orange County, California.

God Bless
 
I recommend trying all the various masses and divine liturgies that are in the Catholic Church. My wife and I went around to check out as many of the 23 rites we have available and it was great.

I am personally moved by the Byzantine rite, though I am a Latin rite Catholic.
 
BobCatholic said:
I recommend trying all the various masses and divine liturgies that are in the Catholic Church. My wife and I went around to check out as many of the 23 rites we have available and it was great.

I am personally moved by the Byzantine rite, though I am a Latin rite Catholic.
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Yep, it’s just a matter of getting more freedom to move around (which, God willing, will come very soon, if I end up landing either of two full-time jobs in Dallas).
 
fons_vitae said:
Yep, it’s just a matter of getting more freedom to move around (which, God willing, will come very soon, if I end up landing either of two full-time jobs in Dallas).
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Dallas is home to the Maronite Syriacs, Malankara Syriacs, Chaldeans, and Syro-Malabar Churches if you do happen to be interested. The Malankara Syrians (Syro-Malankara) are the least latinized among the Eastern Churches in general…

On an aside, you initially stated your interest in the non-Byzantine Eastern Churches, mainly the Syriac and also your interest in the Latin EF - historically, the Syriac Churches and the Latin Churches had influenced each other spiritually and liturgically thru the Middle Ages and beyond. The Gregorian Calendar, for example, was created with the immense knowledge and help of the retired Syriac Orthodox Patriarch who moved to Rome and lived at the Holy See! The Latin Rite, at this time, would have had a Altar Veil covering the Sanctuary, just as the Syriacs do to this day. Gregorian Chant is heavily influenced by Syriac Liturgical music, although polyphany and other Latin Traditions obscure the similarities today, and more!
 
Let me just suggest that if you are culturally Western and were evangelized through Western Christians, your best home is probably in the Latin rite Church. This doesn’t exclude appreciating Eastern forms of Catholicism and even frequenting their Liturgies, but chances are you will remain Western in heart and mind wherever you go, so it would make more sense to remain Latin.
 
Aelred_Minor said:
Let me just suggest that if you are culturally Western and were evangelized through Western Christians, your best home is probably in the Latin rite Church. This doesn’t exclude appreciating Eastern forms of Catholicism and even frequenting their Liturgies, but chances are you will remain Western in heart and mind wherever you go, so it would make more sense to remain Latin.
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👍 :highprayer::knight2:
 
Aelred_Minor said:
Let me just suggest that if you are culturally Western and were evangelized through Western Christians, your best home is probably in the Latin rite Church. This doesn’t exclude appreciating Eastern forms of Catholicism and even frequenting their Liturgies, but chances are you will remain Western in heart and mind wherever you go, so it would make more sense to remain Latin.
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How will one know without the experience? No harm in looking to the Eastern Catholic Churches, even as a home. Many are more Traditional than most Latin rite parishes.
 
SyroMalankara said:
Dallas is home to the Maronite Syriacs, Malankara Syriacs, Chaldeans, and Syro-Malabar Churches if you do happen to be interested. The Malankara Syrians (Syro-Malankara) are the least latinized among the Eastern Churches in general…

On an aside, you initially stated your interest in the non-Byzantine Eastern Churches, mainly the Syriac and also your interest in the Latin EF - historically, the Syriac Churches and the Latin Churches had influenced each other spiritually and liturgically thru the Middle Ages and beyond. The Gregorian Calendar, for example, was created with the immense knowledge and help of the retired Syriac Orthodox Patriarch who moved to Rome and lived at the Holy See! The Latin Rite, at this time, would have had a Altar Veil covering the Sanctuary, just as the Syriacs do to this day. Gregorian Chant is heavily influenced by Syriac Liturgical music, although polyphany and other Latin Traditions obscure the similarities today, and more!
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I had an inkling, but I didn’t know the influence was to such an extent… thanks for the info!
 
I would just like to point out that the Novus Ordo that you’ve probably been exposed to isn’t the proper vision of that Mass. In the wake of Vatican II, much was done to the Liturgy out of ignorance of the meaning of the council, and was certainly never permitted by Rome. The watered down… less rich… version that you see today was never intended by the council.

If I were you, I would bring your concerns to your priest, expressing the desire that you see in the richness of these other liturgies. Rome is take slow steps to restore what was lost in the Liturgy, but I think it would be helpful to speed the process along, particularly in individual parishes, to let the priest know your desires. The more they know, the more they have to respond to.
 
Aelred_Minor said:
Let me just suggest that if you are culturally Western and were evangelized through Western Christians, your best home is probably in the Latin rite Church. This doesn’t exclude appreciating Eastern forms of Catholicism and even frequenting their Liturgies, but chances are you will remain Western in heart and mind wherever you go, so it would make more sense to remain Latin.
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Yeah, I bet I end up staying that way too in the end, for the reasons you just stated (i.e., I started to be pulled into the Church through mostly Latin-influenced Gothic literature and art). Another weigh on the scales is that the Latin traditionalist is in numbers as small as many of the Eastern Catholic faithful, despite the great clamor raised by the former on the Web.

And to SyroMalankara: I attended the Syro-Malankara church to the south on my Sunday off, and it was quite lovely (from what I could follow in their missal [wrong word, I know]). Ironically, there I met several Latin Catholics and one Byzantine Catholic who were also visiting (the parishioners assumed that we had all come together, actually :P).

Thanks to you all for your kind advice–it’s certainly food for thought.
 
MrSnaith said:
I would just like to point out that the Novus Ordo that you’ve probably been exposed to isn’t the proper vision of that Mass. In the wake of Vatican II, much was done to the Liturgy out of ignorance of the meaning of the council, and was certainly never permitted by Rome. The watered down… less rich… version that you see today was never intended by the council.

If I were you, I would bring your concerns to your priest, expressing the desire that you see in the richness of these other liturgies. Rome is take slow steps to restore what was lost in the Liturgy, but I think it would be helpful to speed the process along, particularly in individual parishes, to let the priest know your desires. The more they know, the more they have to respond to.
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Excellent point… I suppose the faithful should keep an eye on liturgical mundaneness too, even beyond the more obvious liturgical abuses.
 
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