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PerryJ
Guest
Perhaps we could ask your Church what they believed in the beginning. Oh forgot yours didn’t exist. Yours was just made up.
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justasking4
Guest
Do you know what your church believed offically about this during this period though?Originally Posted by justasking4
Just because someone writes something down does not mean the entire church believed it. What’s important is what did the church at this time offically believe and teach. That would be a better indicator of the beliefs of the church.
PerryJ
Perhaps we could ask your Church what they believed in the beginning. Oh forgot yours didn’t exist. Yours was just made up.
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Pax
Guest
Scripture says to:
Honor your mother and father. Paul reiterates this commandment in Eph 6. and he even says to honor widows in 1 Tim 5:2.
Mary is our spiritual mother since we are brothers and sisters in Christ her son. We therefore honor her.
Paul also tells us that not even death can separate us from the love of Christ.[Rom 8:38-39] and that we are the body of Christ.[1 Cor 12:27 and others.]
Likewise we are told that we are to pray in the Spirit and make supplications for one another.[Eph 6:18]
We are also told that the prayer of a just man availeth much.[James 5:16] Furthermore, Hebrews 12:1 tells us that we are surrounded by a great cloud of heavenly witnesses, and that we "have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the first-born who are enrolled in heaven, and to a judge who is God of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,[Heb 12:22-23]
Revelation 5:8 says that the saints carry our prayers to the altar. These just souls made perfect will pray for us and there prayers will availeth much. These are our friends in high places. We should ask that they pray for us just as we ask our friends the saints on earth to pray for us. We are all part of the body of Christ.
All of this tells us that prayers to Mary and the saints is both proper and fitting and that it is consistent with scripture. Scripture doesn’t need to elaborate further. It is not a handbook for Christian practice. The Church is there to guide us in the full expressions of practice. These practices find their support in the scriptural planks above, but there are others as well.
I hope this helps.
Honor your mother and father. Paul reiterates this commandment in Eph 6. and he even says to honor widows in 1 Tim 5:2.
Mary is our spiritual mother since we are brothers and sisters in Christ her son. We therefore honor her.
Paul also tells us that not even death can separate us from the love of Christ.[Rom 8:38-39] and that we are the body of Christ.[1 Cor 12:27 and others.]
Likewise we are told that we are to pray in the Spirit and make supplications for one another.[Eph 6:18]
We are also told that the prayer of a just man availeth much.[James 5:16] Furthermore, Hebrews 12:1 tells us that we are surrounded by a great cloud of heavenly witnesses, and that we "have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the first-born who are enrolled in heaven, and to a judge who is God of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,[Heb 12:22-23]
Revelation 5:8 says that the saints carry our prayers to the altar. These just souls made perfect will pray for us and there prayers will availeth much. These are our friends in high places. We should ask that they pray for us just as we ask our friends the saints on earth to pray for us. We are all part of the body of Christ.
All of this tells us that prayers to Mary and the saints is both proper and fitting and that it is consistent with scripture. Scripture doesn’t need to elaborate further. It is not a handbook for Christian practice. The Church is there to guide us in the full expressions of practice. These practices find their support in the scriptural planks above, but there are others as well.
I hope this helps.
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PerryJ
Guest
So do you want me to start posting the early Church Fathers?
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justasking4
Guest
If you do, do they represent what the entire church believed when they write? If they do i would think they must have been popes since a pope is the only one that can come even close to speaking for the entire church.
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JoeyWarren
Guest
**It is there within the confines of the Fullness of Truth. The Comforter has provided the understanding to those appointed by Jesus and their successors over the course of time. **
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ralphinal
Guest
Which of these is appropriate for Scripture’s guidence.
- That which is allowed is allowed, that which is not mentioned as allowed is forbidden.
- That which is forbidden is forbidden, that which is not mentioned as forbidden is not forbidden.
- Nothing is forbidden
- Nothing is allowed
- some combination
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PerryJ
Guest
After 5,000 post you still do not understand how the Catholic faith works?
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justasking4
Guest
i understand some things but not others. This is also true of catholics themselves. You’re a case in point. You can’t seem to answer basic questions about your beliefs.
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justasking4
Guest
How do you know you are not being decieved by them at times? It has happened in the past.
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Pax
Guest
The deceptions that you refer to cannot come from the saints in heaven. This is a non sequitur. Whatever deceptions that have occured came from somewhere else.
We sometimes deceive ourselves in our prayers and requests that we make to the Lord. We do this by thinking that our prayer is answered when it is not. We want something and let our desires and feelings deceive us into thinking that God has given His approval when He has not.
Does this mean that we cannot trust God?
We sometimes deceive ourselves in our prayers and requests that we make to the Lord. We do this by thinking that our prayer is answered when it is not. We want something and let our desires and feelings deceive us into thinking that God has given His approval when He has not.
Does this mean that we cannot trust God?
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guanophore
Guest
We do see some evidence of it in Scripture, but Catholics do not separate the Apostolic Teaching written from oral. To us, it all comes from the same Source, so where we find it is not relevant. We believed that the Apostles followed the example of Jesus, and that He exalted Mary.
I can readily affirm that your opinion has been shared by many, especially in the last 100 years when many “different gospels” have sprung up, calling themselves Christian.
On the contrary, Gregory of "Tours is not the first Church father to teach this. Neither is this the earliest source. However, you have just as much right to err in your history as Ludwig Ott.
We obviously are reading different history. Ours begins with the books of the NT.
Well, we read it differently.
Did you realize that human perception is, in large part, influenced by our experiences and education?
How is this question related to the topic?
I believe that you are not aware of the Teaching. However, neither is the Word of God confined to the HOly scriptures, as you seem to believe. In fact, the Teaching of Christ was held by the successors of the Apostles for centuries before the bible was compiled.
Jesus taught that He is the God of the living, and not the dead, and that all are alive unto Him.
Jesus demonstrated conversation with those who have passed on to their heavenly reward.
The Apostles taught that we should honor those of good repute in Christ.
The Apostles taught that we are One Body, and that death cannot separate us.
The Apostles taught that the effectual fervent prayers of the righteous have great power in their effects (our Mother wears army boots, you know!).
The Apostles encouraged that we all pray at all times in the spirit, and that there is a great cloud of witnesses surrounding us.
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PerryJ
Guest
Very interesting thought. Did you Know that Hans Luder, the father of Martin Luther, stated at Luther’s first mass “The Devil may have had a hand in it.” He was referring to the thunderstorm that scared Luther into becoming a priest.
This quote can be found in “Luther” by Oberman and Schwarzbart page 129.
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justasking4
Guest
How do you know that? Scripture is quite clear about how easy it is to be decieved. Paul warned about this in 2 Cor 11:13-14–
13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
Also Colossians 2:18–Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,
No. However the best way to know Who God is and what He is like is to know the Scriptures. There is no better way.
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guanophore
Guest
Because the saints in heaven have been purified, and God keeps them eternally from all sin. There is no sin allowed in heaven, and those who are there are permanently sealed. They can neither recieve or promulgate error. This is one of the parts of the Church that you don’t seem to recognize as incapable of error.
These passages refer to false teachers here on earth.
Suit yourself. Why are you here?No. However the best way to know Who God is and what He is like is to know the Scriptures. There is no better way.
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adstrinity
Guest
To prove to all involved to remain Catholic.
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justasking4
Guest
I’m here to help—View attachment 4109
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guanophore
Guest
What do you consider “help”?
How is detraction, calumny, and misreprentation of the truth helpful?
Are you on this thread because you believe it is possible for a person to have “too much” honor for the Mother of Christ?
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justasking4
Guest
Off topic…:tsktsk:
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guanophore
Guest
Nice attempt to dodge, but you did not answer my question.
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