An Excellent Defense of Ascension Thursday

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What about the precept of he Church to avoid work?

What could be the reason to erode the requirement of the law, commanding impossible things?
What is so impossible about taking the day off or cutting your day short. If you absolutely can not take time off that is one thing. Most people can schedule personal days or a vacation day to take the HDO off. Others may be able to switch a day with a fellow co-worker to accommodate having the day off. People need to stop making excuses for not doing what is required of them to fulfill their commitment to the Catholic faith. Yes, I have been in a situation where it was impossible for me to not make Mass on a HDO. We all have. That is also why the Sacrament of confession is available for us to stay in a state of grace. The bottom line is we are not putting God first in our lives. How have our priorities gotten so misdirected in this country and even in our faith.
 
What is so impossible about taking the day off or cutting your day short. If you absolutely can not take time off that is one thing. Most people can schedule personal days or a vacation day to take the HDO off. Others may be able to switch a day with a fellow co-worker to accommodate having the day off. People need to stop making excuses for not doing what is required of them to fulfill their commitment to the Catholic faith. Yes, I have been in a situation where it was impossible for me to not make Mass on a HDO. We all have. That is also why the Sacrament of confession is available for us to stay in a state of grace. The bottom line is we are not putting God first in our lives. How have our priorities gotten so misdirected in this country and even in our faith.
Cutting short does not resolves the problem with the precept: no work all day.

Also why stop back in 10 years and restore only 1 Holy Days of obligation, why don’t we go back to 1900: 35 Holy Days of obligation? The recent 3 on weekdays takes to the limit, and I have a guess that that even traditionalists do not take vacation days for this reason, so the law is eroded even by that.
 
People need to stop making excuses for not doing what is required of them to fulfill their commitment to the Catholic faith.
I’m usually too busy examining my own conscience to spend time examining other people’s consciences and judging their commitments.
 
Cutting short does not resolves the problem with the precept: no work all day.

Also why stop back in 10 years and restore only 1 Holy Days of obligation, why don’t we go back to 1900: 35 Holy Days of obligation? The recent 3 on weekdays takes to the limit, and I have a guess that that even traditionalists do not take vacation days for this reason, so the law is eroded even by that.
There are 68 million Catholics in the US. If we put our foot down to corporate America, HDO’s would be given off for those who required it. Catholics have a lot of power when they want to use it collectively. I am not one to stand idly by and watch our faith be turned into one of convenience.
 
I’m usually too busy examining my own conscience to spend time examining other people’s consciences and judging their commitments.
I don’t need to examine or judge anyone’s conscience. I saw first hand how few people attended Mass yesterday evening, and heard our priest speak in his homily how poor the turn out was for the morning Mass. His homily after he spoke about the glorious day that is the Ascension, turned to how Catholics today put everything else ahead of God and the Church. How we are commanded to keep the HDO’s. To be Catholic is to be holy and authentic. Unfortunately today many fall into the category CINO. Catholic in name only.
 
Father, with all due respect, there is also the Vigil Mass the night before that the faithful can attend
Once again, that misses the full intention of Holy Days of Obligation. They are not merely about attending Mass. Those days also call for avoiding work, which most people cannot do. That’s why there’s a growing tend of moving a HDO to a Sunday.
Now, parents willingly make sacrifices to watch their children play in sports (as well as take them to practice), peform and receive awards. Like Holy Days of Obligation, these don’t happen very often. Yet, people are willing to re-arrange their schedules in order to be at these secular events. The same willingness should also apply to Holy Days of Obligation.
Says who? You? Like I said, we can play this game of why do A and not do B all day long. It goes in circles.
People go to their child’s show or award ceremony because otherwise the child would be devastated. People assume God has more maturity than a child.

The sad fact is the HDOs are now relegated to simple Mass attendance. That’s not their intention and that’s why most are moved to Sundays.
 
Unfortunately today many fall into the category CINO. Catholic in name only.
There is no such thing as CINO. Someone is your brother or sister no matter what. I don’t understand this new craze to separate the “good” Catholics from the “bad” ones. We are all part of a family that we have no right to belong to, let’s just thank God he’s allowed us in and stop worrying about how worthy anyone else is or isn’t…
 
I support it being a day of obligation. But I don’t know in practical terms if it can be done for most people. I will soon find out. Its easy for those who are single or without kids or with grown kids. But those with little kids its a bit difficult. Aside from work getting in the way of going to Liturgy, you also have to take care of the kids. Picking them up from daycare, feeding them, putting them to bed. I’m sad that modern life has put on so much for us. But what can we do but to live in it?
 
What is so impossible about taking the day off or cutting your day short. If you absolutely can not take time off that is one thing. Most people can schedule personal days or a vacation day to take the HDO off. Others may be able to switch a day with a fellow co-worker to accommodate having the day off.
I’d like to know what world you’re living in. Most people don’t have free days to take off. For those who work hourly jobs, forget it. Not working for the vast majority of people means not getting paid. And that means not being able to pay bills, or for parents not being able to care for their children (which after God is their priority in life). Nor would God ever make a parent choose between Him and their dependent children, because that’s not God.
 
My Church is right next to the Catholic school. We had an early mass at 7AM, and another one at 7Pm. A Brother Knight, took his daughter who had to go to school near the end and he had to leave for work… He still went. I went because it’s the first HDO I had after I was officially confirmed. Plus I work second shift so I wouldn’t have been able to make it for the 7PM, that’s how my Parish did it.

As for should it be on a Sunday, well the day is Ascension Thursday, I think there should be more time available to people have every opportunity to go. We are called to the Truth. We are Catholics and we either act like it or we don’t there is no “good” or “bad” Catholic. Part of that means that we should try and be like Jesus, not everyone else, if you can make a time then you go, you miss it then go to confession.
 
I’d like to know what world you’re living in. Most people don’t have free days to take off. For those who work hourly jobs, forget it. Not working for the vast majority of people means not getting paid. And that means not being able to pay bills, or for parents not being able to care for their children (which after God is their priority in life). Nor would God ever make a parent choose between Him and their dependent children, because that’s not God.
So, you are putting money before God. That is idolatry.
 
So, you are putting money before God. That is idolatry.
Whoa, man. That’s a bit over the line, don’t you think? What makes you so sure you know all the particulars of that poster’s life? I recall St. Paul telling us to work out our fear and trembling, not work out other’s lives. 😉

In Christ,
Andrew
 
There is no such thing as CINO. Someone is your brother or sister no matter what. I don’t understand this new craze to separate the “good” Catholics from the “bad” ones. We are all part of a family that we have no right to belong to, let’s just thank God he’s allowed us in and stop worrying about how worthy anyone else is or isn’t…
Father, I pose a question… Isn’t it your job as a priest to do everything you can to get the souls of your parishioners to heaven? Our priest tells us that is his one and only job. I share that same belief and if I can make someone think twice about putting something else ahead of God in their lives, you can be assured I will. I am not trying to insinuate to anyone that they are good or bad Catholics. I am just trying to make some understand that their decisions can have a negative effect. Not only on their salvation , but on the overall well being of their parish community. I am called to help my brothers and sisters. By showing them that they can make small changes that will help them grow closer to God. To switch a day off so they can attend Mass on Sunday or a HDO and observe the Feast Days as they are meant to be. We were told by God to follow His Commandments. I don’t recall anywhere that He asked what anyone thought about them. I never learned that if it wasn’t convenient that we didn’t have to abide by them. God loves us unconditionally, but we are also told to obey.
 
So I suppose since it is such an inconvenience to hold Holy Days of Obligation on weekdays, we should also move Ash Wednesday, Holy Thursday, and Good Friday to the weekend to. Just to make sure we make everyone happy and everything.
 
There is no such thing as CINO. Someone is your brother or sister no matter what. I don’t understand this new craze to separate the “good” Catholics from the “bad” ones. We are all part of a family that we have no right to belong to, let’s just thank God he’s allowed us in and stop worrying about how worthy anyone else is or isn’t…
Frankly, I appreciate that The Church has made it more convenient to worship The Lord. I think it’s great that The Church is able to evaluate the current state of the world, region by region, and make appropriate alterations so that the faithful can participate fully in their parish’s worship. The more people that are able to worship Him - the better. It’s silly to assume that because one takes on additional inconveniences that he is more holy or pious than his brother who chooses differently. No one knows the heart of another, and we must all be mindful of our piety coming from pride or desire for attention rather than heartfelt devotion.

And Father - I am going to take on your comment that “People assume God has more maturity than a child” as my personal mantra. 👍
 
I believe that Father is making a point that is going right over many people’s heads or we’re too focused on one part of the holy day and missing the bigger picture. I’m Jewish. In Jewish tradition a holy day is a day of zero temporal activity. The more orthodox you are, the less you do. The Orthodox Jews don’t even turn on the lights. They do it the night before. They walk to Temple.

The Catholic concept of Holy Day comes from Judaism. A Holy Day of Obligation is a Holy Day that must be observed. It is not optional. This means that everything temporal stops. We’re not expected to be as strict as are Orthodox Jews who walk rather than drive on holy days. But we are expected to stop. It’s a day for prayer, rest and family.

The discussion here has reduced the holy day to attending mass. That’s wrong. That was never the Jewish tradition, nor was that how it was passed from Judaism into Christianity. A holy day of obligation is a day when we stop what we’re doing to worship God, re-create ourselves and be with family.

In today’s world, that is very difficult for most people to do during a work day, especially in today’s economy. The school system will count the day against your child, if you keep him home. You’re employer can refuse to give you the day off, even if you have vacation days. Vacation days must be taken when they are convenient to the company. If you use a sick day, the employer has the right to ask for a medical certificate.

Even though there are some people who can take the day off and who may be able to pull their children from school and the child will not be penalized for it, that’s not the case for most people. The Church cannot create two holy days to accommodate for those who can observe Holy Thursday and those who cannot do so. Her job is to save souls, not to make salvation an unreasonable hardship. Therefore, since the Church has the power to bind and unbind, she can move a holy day to a day of the week when the majority of the people can take the ENTIRE DAY for this purpose.

The comparison to Ash Wednesday and Good Friday is an invalid one. The Church has never decreed them to be Holy Days of Obligation. Guess why not? Because it is a hardship to men and women who do not live in Catholic countries where those days are not observed. Once upon a time, they were holy days of obligation in Catholic Europe. Catholic Europe no longer exists and there has never been a Catholic USA.

In some places you have another challenge, that is the availability of priests to celebrate mass that day. I’m not sure where most people live, but where I live, we have a parish staffed by six religious, but only one is ordained. On Sundays, they have diocesan priests who graciously agree to celebrate mass and hear confessions. One of these men is a high school principal. He’s not available during the week. If there is a weekday mass, he celebrates it for his high school students. The other is a university professor. He’s not available during the week either. He can celebrate mass before or after class. He can only help, if the parish schedule coincides with his class schedule. The third man works at the tribunal. He may be available on a holy day, because the chancery and tribunal are closed.

There are logistic problems for the clergy as well as for the laity. You can forget the order ordaining more men. That’s not going to happen. They’re only supposed to ordain as many as they need to celebrate mass for their brothers, not to staff parishes.

We can be a little more patient and understanding here.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
However, this is also a question of priorities. If parents can make the sacrifices to send their children to arts classes (dance and music) or have them participate in sports (none of these are mandatory) and then take the time to go watch them perform or play, can they not make the time for one additional hour of Mass?

While some European countries may have tied their holidays to Holy Days of Obligations, it has never been that way in the United States, with the exception of Christmas. These European countries are/were Catholic by nature; the United States is not.

My dad, who was raised by my late grandmother, a single, working mother, told me that it was never a problem to get to Mass on a Holy Day of Obligation. My grandma was willing to make sacrifices, as was my dad.
 
But, as others have pointed out, the spirit of a Holy Day of obligation is not just to , “make it to Mass.” why should we not celebrate the holy day at a time when more people can and will participate? The holy day hasn’t been eliminated - just adjusted to allow for maximal worship. Is that not a good thing?
 
However, this is also a question of priorities. If parents can make the sacrifices to send their children to arts classes (dance and music) or have them participate in sports (none of these are mandatory) and then take the time to go watch them perform or play, can they not make the time for one additional hour of Mass?

While some European countries may have tied their holidays to Holy Days of Obligations, it has never been that way in the United States, with the exception of Christmas. These European countries are/were Catholic by nature; the United States is not.

My dad, who was raised by my late grandmother, a single, working mother, told me that it was never a problem to get to Mass on a Holy Day of Obligation. My grandma was willing to make sacrifices, as was my dad.
I understand what you’re saying, but what Father and I are trying to communicate is that the Church has a broader vision of a holy day, which is highly influence by Judaism. Going to mass is part of it.

If we reduce it to just going to mass, then one has to wonder, is it really a holy day? 🤷

We don’t want to do that. We don’t want to reduce it to getting in a quick mass.

I do agree with Father about children. God is much more mature and emotionally stronger than a child. A parent has a duty to deal with his or her children where they’re at. I also understand your point about priorities. There are times when we do get our priorities all mixed up, no question about it.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Initially, I felt a loss when Holy Thursday was changed to Sunday. Reading all the posts about what a Holy Day is really supposed to be, a whole day of prayer, reflection and focusing on the Lord, spending a day with no work and with family, I did recall that we did used to take the day off from school, just like for secular holidays! I am really getting old now, but I do recall that now. So, after more careful thought, I can see NE and JR do have a valid point. But, I do still attend Mass on Holy Thursday (actual Thursday!) out of reverence for my Lord, but then carry on my work day as usual. So changing the Hooly Days to the nearest Sunday does make sense. However, my heart still yearns for more reverence and focus on our beautiful Catholic faith that seems to be “blending in” more with the culture. BTW, I don’t like it when the 4th of July gets celebrated on the nearest Monday, either. 😃
 
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