An Excommunication

[907John]

I was at an Orthodox Vespers service this past Saturday and the priest chanted an Anathema and Excommunication against those who were destroying the church in the context of the Orthodox Church suffering under Communism.

He then requested that those martyrs who died under the Communist Yoke intercede for our souls and for the souls of those in the [Russian] Diaspora.

Wow. Having just discovered actual Christianity I am continually thrilled by how solid and ‘Gibraltar-like’ it is. There is nothing wishy-washy about it. The church was at war with the Communist State and they they had no illusions about it or what to do when confronted with evil.

Not sure how to finish this posting, I guess I just felt like telling somebody. If anyone has any more information on this topic (The Church’s response to Communism, not the on the persecution), post it please!

 

[campeador]

My friend, I suggest you read Fr. Walter Ciszek book With God in Russia. I can’t recommend it highly enough.

 

[pablope]

I was at an Orthodox Vespers service this past Saturday and the priest chanted an Anathema and Excommunication against those who were destroying the church in the context of the Orthodox Church suffering under Communism.

He then requested that those martyrs who died under the Communist Yoke intercede for our souls and for the souls of those in the [Russian] Diaspora.

Wow. Having just discovered actual Christianity I am continually thrilled by how solid and ‘Gibraltar-like’ it is. There is nothing wishy-washy about it. The church was at war with the Communist State and they they had no illusions about it or what to do when confronted with evil.

Not sure how to finish this posting, I guess I just felt like telling somebody. If anyone has any more information on this topic (The Church’s response to Communism, not the on the persecution), post it please!

I think only the head of the Church, maybe a bishop can issue an excommunication? But I maybe wrong.

Was the priest just saying or praying for intercession from the saints?

 

[Harpazo]

I was at an Orthodox Vespers service this past Saturday and the priest chanted an Anathema and Excommunication against those who were destroying the church in the context of the Orthodox Church suffering under Communism.

He then requested that those martyrs who died under the Communist Yoke intercede for our souls and for the souls of those in the [Russian] Diaspora.

Wow. Having just discovered actual Christianity I am continually thrilled by how solid and ‘Gibraltar-like’ it is. There is nothing wishy-washy about it. The church was at war with the Communist State and they they had no illusions about it or what to do when confronted with evil.

Not sure how to finish this posting, I guess I just felt like telling somebody. If anyone has any more information on this topic (The Church’s response to Communism, not the on the persecution), post it please!

Was it the Vespers for the Holy New Martyrs of Russia? Just wait until you attend the Liturgy for the Sunday of Orthodoxy.

I know in the Armenian Orthodox rite for ordination, the man to be ordained must anathematize the heretics throughout the ages (which includes Martin Luther and Joseph Smith). There is no wishy-washiness in Orthodoxy, which, I agree with you is refreshing.

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[The_Old_Medic]

The Russian Orthodox Church largely cooperated with the Communists between the mid 1920’s and the early 1990’s. Especially the leadership of that church cooperated.

The Russian Catholic Church was forcibly incorporated into the Russian Orthodox Church (which the Orthodox supported 100%) under the communists. Today, when the Russian Catholic Church tries to get their churches back, the Orthodox Church fights them tooth and nail.

I would strongly suggest that you do some independent study of the relationship of the Russian Orthodox Church and the Communists in Russia.

 

[907John]

I think only the head of the Church, maybe a bishop can issue an excommunication? But I maybe wrong.

Was the priest just saying or praying for intercession from the saints?

Hi pablope,

He was praying for intercession. It was one of the chanted prayers and it directly followed and perhaps preceded the excommunication.

I believe he was the Archimandrite.

 

[907John]

Was it the Vespers for the Holy New Martyrs of Russia? Just wait until you attend the Liturgy for the Sunday of Orthodoxy.

I know in the Armenian Orthodox rite for ordination, the man to be ordained must anathematize the heretics throughout the ages (which includes Martin Luther and Joseph Smith). There is no wishy-washiness in Orthodoxy, which, I agree with you is refreshing.

In Christ,
Andrew

Andrew, thanks, I’ve been to many Divine Liturgies I do not know the name of the Vesper Service. Where might I find out the different kinds of Vesper Services?

 

[907John]

The Russian Catholic Church was forcibly incorporated into the Russian Orthodox Church (which the Orthodox supported 100%) under the communists. Today, when the Russian Catholic Church tries to get their churches back, the Orthodox Church fights them tooth and nail.

Hi Medic, I think you meant ‘tooth and claw’, I used to make that same mistake as well.

What you say is, to an outsider, and without meaning any disrespect, rather funny. The Orthodox are continually complaining that the CC is seizing their churches and continually trying to assimilate them, and here I finally hear the opposite complaint!

Some things are so serious that they are best dealt with with laughter. Christianity must reunite or these dramas will endlessly continue.

 

[Harpazo]

Andrew, thanks, I’ve been to many Divine Liturgies I do not know the name of the Vesper Service. Where might I find out the different kinds of Vesper Services?

Well, Vespers has variable portions in it (as does Matins) for the particular Saint or feast being commemorated that day. For us, the day begins with Vespers and what a wonderful way to start off the day. The service you were at was probably commemorating the New Martyrs of Russia, countless numbers that suffered the during the Revolution in the earlier part of the 20th century until the end of the Soviet regime. From what I have seen, there are different types of Vespers services, however. There is ‘Little Vespers’ which is a bit simpler and has readings from the Psalter and there is ‘Great Vespers’ which is attached to another service, either Matins or Compline. Lastly, there is ‘Vesperal Divine Liturgy’ which is Great Vespers with Divine Liturgy following. I would recommend this article to explain it better than I could. Also, if you ever wanted to pray Vespers on your own when you cannot get to a temple for services or in addition to going to services, this website is an excellent resource.

The Old Medic, might not know the horrors that the Orthodox really went through in Russia. It’s a bit more complicated than what people realize, but the Church did not disappear in Russia; instead, it went underground. Before the Revolution, the Russian Church agreed to “split” if you will should the Communists take over and the Russian Church forced to comply with the state. Thus, the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia (or ROCOR as it’s abbreviated) was formed following the take-over because of much of the Russian hierarchy, sadly, giving in to the state. Glory to God, the ROCOR was reunited to Moscow a few years ago.

Notable Saints, like St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco, a very saintly bishop, fled Russia and brought orphans with him to Shanghai and then to America (after trying many other countries). But of course there are other stories as well of many Russians who shed their blood defending Orthodoxy. An inspiring story is that of Fr. Arseny, which I highly recommend.

I hope this helps!

In Christ,
Andrew