An explanation for the focus on homosexuality and abortion

[LJH_80]

I was speaking with a homosexual friend last week, and she had found this picture which talks about how people were boycotting Oreo for the pride cookie, but not talking at all about human trafficking or hungry children in the U.S.

My first thought was that this is just about what sells; I know the Catholic Church puts a lot of work toward feeding the hungry in the world, though admittedly I’ve never heard about a concerted Catholic anti-human-trafficking program.

But my second thought is that it’s about salvation, and that’s the one I wanted your opinions on.

The difference between human trafficking and homosexuality is that nobody is trying to tell us that human trafficking is okay. Yes, dealing in child prostitutes is terrible, but the pimps and the customers both go to hell, while the traumatized children have a chance to go to Heaven, and so it all works out in the end. No action on our part is required, we only need a vague sense of disapproval to be morally correct and achieve our own salvation.
If homosexuality were just some guys or girls doing bad things with each other and going to hell for it, then it wouldn’t be a big deal. But the issue is not what they’re doing it’s that they’re trying to tell my kids that it’s morally acceptable. If my kid believes that, then even if she never actually commits a homosexual act, she will not have the right morality, and may not get into Heaven.

Likewise with abortion, the evil provider and the customer go to hell (barring later repentance) and the baby goes to Heaven… the situation works out fine, just like child prostitutes. But if my children grow up thinking it’s okay, instead of believing Biblical morality, then it’s not just the involved parties whose salvation is threatened.

 

[sedonaman]

… I’ve never heard about a concerted Catholic anti-human-trafficking program.
…

My parish has posted signs encouraging parishioners to be aware of this and to report suspected cases.

 

[PaulinVA]

Okay, so Catholic Charities is the largest private provider of services for the downtrodden in the United States. Catholic Relief Services is a major player in international relief efforts.

The linked photo is just blatantly wrong. We are able to do several things at once - help the poor, feed the hungry, AND uphold the Gospel.

 

[Lifesong]

Also the Department of Health and Human Services did not renew the grant with Catholic groups to provide services to victims of human trafficking because they would not counsel the victims about contraception and abortion despite being out in front on this issue for years so I believe it is erroneous and disingenuous to criticize the Church in this regard when they have been out there for years caring for these victims. I love how the “progressives” chooses to define me as a Christian as if I can’t walk and chew gum at the same time- why are we never allowed to talk about Jesus except when they want to throw Him in our faces when we don’t stand lockstep with them which to me is just adding more thorns into the crown in using our Lord in this way. Sorry, having been already attacked on Facebook, as a Catholic health professional, in the same simplistic way about how Jesus would just love the Affordable Care Act this is becoming a real pet peeve of mine. Jesus loves all sinners but he hates sin- why is this so hard to understand.

Blessings,

Val

 

[Joe_5859]

… though admittedly I’ve never heard about a concerted Catholic anti-human-trafficking program.

That’s probably only because blogs and news articles tend to get more attention that what the USCCB is doing. The USCCB has made anti-human trafficking efforts a priority. They even have a separate Office of Human Trafficking just to deal with this important social justice issue.

… The difference between human trafficking and homosexuality is that nobody is trying to tell us that human trafficking is okay.

And I think this is the reason why homosexuality and abortion get more attention from Catholic media outlets. There is a significant portion of the population that is saying that these things that the Catholic Church teaches to be grave moral evils are, in fact, something good. If half the population was saying that human trafficking was something good and the next great American export to help us shake off our economic slump, then you better believe it would be making headlines and attracting all sorts of attention from Catholic circles.

 

[manualman]

An earlier poster nailed it. There’s no CONTROVERSY in regards to human trafficking. Anybody with even a shred of human decency is against it.

Abortion, homosexuality, fornication, divorce/remarriage, on the other hand are moral wrongs regarding which there are significant movements in society to redefine as moral goods (or at least morally neutral).

It’s important to look back at how Jesus interacted with the people of his day. The sinner who KNEW they were sinners he had great compassion for. He generally did something wonderful for them first and THEN admonished them to go and sin no more. Those who sinned, but proclaimed themselves righteous, on the other hand, He called “broods of vipers.”

Sins are bad things. But sinners who are aware they have done wrong and are at least uneasy with their sin are (IMO) an awful lot closer to God than sinners who hold up their sins and call them righteousness. That there is downright dangerous!

 

[runningdude]

Vatican conference on human trafficking: thetablet.co.uk/blogs/299/18

Don’t confuse “not being reported by the media”, with “not being addressed by the Catholic Church”.

 

[losh14]

I think you hit on the main reason - that there’s no controversy over human trafficking, we all know it’s wrong and would like to see it end - but also that the cookie wasn’t about any issue other than gay pride. It was actually a rather clever ad, I think, and I bet the multi-layer, multi-color oreo would be very very delicious. But it wouldn’t prompt me to say “Speaking of gay pride, let’s do something about human trafficking”.

The type of argument that is posited in what you linked is called a rhetorical device - absence/acquiescene fallacy or something like that, but it’s essentially “you said A, but you didn’t mention B, so I assume you must hold a morally repugnant position with respect to B”. It’s therefore not a valid argument - consider that if it’s logically valid to have this exchange:

Person A: “I’m against gay marriage. I think it’s immoral.”
Person B: “I think it’s horrible that you didn’t say anything about human trafficking.”

Then this exchange is also logically valid:

Person A: “I think we should be able to recycle styrofoam to keep it out of landfills.”
Person B: “I think it’s horrible you didn’t say anything about nuclear weapons.”

So if you need a response next time, say either “that’s a non-sequitur” or “if the ad showed a 7-year-old chained to a bed naked, holding the oreo cookie, you’d better believe we’d have a strong response against it.”

My parish has posted signs encouraging parishioners to be aware of this and to report suspected cases.

We’re especially aware of this in my area, you see it not only in the churches and schools but also in hotels, highway rest areas and the bathrooms of some restaurants along the highway. Apparantly St. Louis is a known path for trafficking young girls between coasts.

Also the Department of Health and Human Services did not renew the grant with Catholic groups to provide services to victims of human trafficking because they would not counsel the victims about contraception and abortion despite being out in front on this issue for years so I believe it is erroneous and disingenuous to criticize the Church in this regard when they have been out there for years caring for these victims.

I hate hate hate hate hate that we have to be so incredibly in-line with government policy or be told that we can’t do our mission. This is why Catholic Charities can’t help adopt children in Illinois, though I really wish the bishops had simply said “I’m going to isntruct our charities not to obey, and if you don’t like it, close us down” rather htan simply closing down and therefore running afoul of those who say we don’t care about the kids and would rather help no one than help gay couples.

You know what, Lifesong, we’re rebels. And we’re led by One so threatening to authority that 2,000 years after they crucified Him, those in authority are terrified to hear about Jesus unless He’s whitewashed down to a nice guy who says we should be kinder to one another and accepting of differences.

You can’t preach God as Loving without preaching God as Holy - this is utterly lost on those without faith. A God who is Holy but not Loving is merely capricious, while a God who is Loving but not Holy is no better than an enabler for addicts. God is both Love and Justice, otherwise there’s no Mercy, and the salvation won for us is without meaning.

Don’t confuse “not being reported by the media”, with “not being addressed by the Catholic Church”.

No kidding. We never get media airtime unless it’s a scandal, a holiday, or something having to do with gay rights or abortion. Note how that excludes the current controversy over religious freedom. Not a single major media outlet I’ve seen has noted that there were even protests on June 8th in dozens of U.S. cities, nor that the LCMS or other major Christian traditions have joined with us in protesting the law, even if some of those don’t oppose contraception on moral grounds. Then again, when’s the last time we had a serious religion correspondent? Take a 30-minute nightly broadcast - 6 minutes is weather (at least locally - we have weather TWICE each broadcast), 14 minutes is sports, 5 is commercials. When are they going to have time to cover things that matter - international news is a pathetic 90 seconds. How many Americans know that Turkish troops are about ready to invade Syria to pull down Assad, or that the Egyptian military and the ruling Islamist party are close to a clash over constitutionality? How many are aware of the continuing financial problems in Portugal, Italy and Greece, much less that Germany is the prominent European power and assigned to handle ongoing public sector bailouts within the EU on a permanent basis?

So no, I’m not surprised that people don’t know the good that we do. They aren’t spoon-fed it. Rats following the piper.

 

[Christmastwin]

A
It’s important to look back at how Jesus interacted with the people of his day. The sinner who KNEW they were sinners he had great compassion for. He generally did something wonderful for them first and THEN admonished them to go and sin no more. Those who sinned, but proclaimed themselves righteous, on the other hand, He called “broods of vipers.”

Love this!!

 

[Robert_in_SD]

An earlier poster nailed it. There’s no CONTROVERSY in regards to human trafficking. Anybody with even a shred of human decency is against it.

Abortion, homosexuality, fornication, divorce/remarriage, on the other hand are moral wrongs regarding which there are significant movements in society to redefine as moral goods (or at least morally neutral).

It’s important to look back at how Jesus interacted with the people of his day. The sinner who KNEW they were sinners he had great compassion for. He generally did something wonderful for them first and THEN admonished them to go and sin no more. Those who sinned, but proclaimed themselves righteous, on the other hand, He called “broods of vipers.”

Sins are bad things. But sinners who are aware they have done wrong and are at least uneasy with their sin are (IMO) an awful lot closer to God than sinners who hold up their sins and call them righteousness. That there is downright dangerous!

I don’t think I could have said it better.

Peace,
Robert

 

[manualman]

I should mention too that calling oneself ‘righteous’ is a dangerous business for anybody.

Christians DO undermine our moral authority if we denounce abortion, but scorn and marginalize unwed mothers. We do the same if we denounce gay marriage, but cohabitate before marriage ourselves.

But even when we fail to live up to the moral course revealed to us in Scripture and Tradition, those teachings are legitimate because WE didn’t develop them, they were revealed to us. Anybody who says our failures legitimize their own is like Bin Laden who claimed that America’s culture of porn, drugs and license legitimizes terrorism against America. One wrong never legitimizes another.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, LJH,

I looked at the picture and read the captions.

Whoever put this together has their own agenda - and they are only willing to ‘meet a God’ that they themselves have created. Homosexual behavior, human trafficking and hungar are all evils - going hungry is something that many organizations try to address through various means - including the federal government. I am not aware of people either deriving pleasure or profit from going hungry - the same can not be said about the other evils listed.

The poster who identified that Catholics can do many things at the same time: fight trafficking, relieve hungar, and uphold the Gospel are all done each day by many people - and I think this is something the designer of this picture collage totally missed.

God is not about how we make Him out to be - He Is - and it is our job to obey His Law rather then for us to see how we can modify what He has given us into something that is essentially only for our own pleasure. Who are we kidding? Certianly not God!

By the way, the cookie was kind of funny (I like Oreos…) I was just wondering how they would be able to package such a cookie … but for those who like the icing first - this must be a feast! You know, it is enjoyable to just see a cookie as something one eats - rather then a political statement about how sodomy is going to rule the day!

God bless

I was speaking with a homosexual friend last week, and she had found this picture which talks about how people were boycotting Oreo for the pride cookie, but not talking at all about human trafficking or hungry children in the U.S.

My first thought was that this is just about what sells; I know the Catholic Church puts a lot of work toward feeding the hungry in the world, though admittedly I’ve never heard about a concerted Catholic anti-human-trafficking program.

But my second thought is that it’s about salvation, and that’s the one I wanted your opinions on.

The difference between human trafficking and homosexuality is that nobody is trying to tell us that human trafficking is okay. Yes, dealing in child prostitutes is terrible, but the pimps and the customers both go to hell, while the traumatized children have a chance to go to Heaven, and so it all works out in the end. No action on our part is required, we only need a vague sense of disapproval to be morally correct and achieve our own salvation.
If homosexuality were just some guys or girls doing bad things with each other and going to hell for it, then it wouldn’t be a big deal. But the issue is not what they’re doing it’s that they’re trying to tell my kids that it’s morally acceptable. If my kid believes that, then even if she never actually commits a homosexual act, she will not have the right morality, and may not get into Heaven.

Likewise with abortion, the evil provider and the customer go to hell (barring later repentance) and the baby goes to Heaven… the situation works out fine, just like child prostitutes. But if my children grow up thinking it’s okay, instead of believing Biblical morality, then it’s not just the involved parties whose salvation is threatened.

 

[eternalrest]

I was speaking with a homosexual friend last week, and she had found this picture which talks about how people were boycotting Oreo for the pride cookie, but not talking at all about human trafficking or hungry children in the U.S.

My first thought was that this is just about what sells; I know the Catholic Church puts a lot of work toward feeding the hungry in the world, though admittedly I’ve never heard about a concerted Catholic anti-human-trafficking program.

But my second thought is that it’s about salvation, and that’s the one I wanted your opinions on.

The difference between human trafficking and homosexuality is that nobody is trying to tell us that human trafficking is okay. Yes, dealing in child prostitutes is terrible, but the pimps and the customers both go to hell, while the traumatized children have a chance to go to Heaven, and so it all works out in the end. No action on our part is required, we only need a vague sense of disapproval to be morally correct and achieve our own salvation.
If homosexuality were just some guys or girls doing bad things with each other and going to hell for it, then it wouldn’t be a big deal. But the issue is not what they’re doing it’s that they’re trying to tell my kids that it’s morally acceptable. If my kid believes that, then even if she never actually commits a homosexual act, she will not have the right morality, and may not get into Heaven.

Likewise with abortion, the evil provider and the customer go to hell (barring later repentance) and the baby goes to Heaven… the situation works out fine, just like child prostitutes. But if my children grow up thinking it’s okay, instead of believing Biblical morality, then it’s not just the involved parties whose salvation is threatened.

Its selfish to only care about things if they affect you and your children but not care about them if they affect other people and other people’s children. Christian ministries have traditionally taken the lead with trying to end slavery, i.e. International Justice Mission or William Wilberforce. This is why Google gave International Justice Mission a $11.5 million grant. cnn.com/2011/12/14/us/google-anti-slavery-grant/index.html

Abortion is more important than human trafficking, but same-sex marriage is probably not more important than human trafficking. Its probably why the pro-life cause is gaining ground but the pro-traditional marriage cause is losing support, others have good reason to doubt our choice of priorities even if our logic and reason for supporting both are correct. Perhaps a Catholic theologian could comment.

Do We Have a Pro-Life ‘Good War’ and an Anti-SSM ‘Bad War’?nationalreview.com/corner/284483/do-we-have-pro-life-good-war-and-anti-ssm-bad-war-david-french

 

[CopticChristian]

Its selfish to only care about things if they affect you and your children but not care about them if they affect other people and other people’s children. Christian ministries have traditionally taken the lead with trying to end** slavery**, i.e. International Justice Mission or William Wilberforce. This is why Google gave International Justice Mission a $11.5 million grant. cnn.com/2011/12/14/us/google-anti-slavery-grant/index.html

**Abortion **is more important than human trafficking, but **same-sex marriage **is probably not more important than human trafficking. Its probably why the pro-life cause is gaining ground but the pro-traditional marriage cause is losing support, others have good reason to doubt our choice of priorities even if our logic and reason for supporting both are correct. Perhaps a Catholic theologian could comment.

Do We Have a Pro-Life ‘Good War’ and an Anti-SSM ‘Bad War’?nationalreview.com/corner/284483/do-we-have-pro-life-good-war-and-anti-ssm-bad-war-david-french

Eternal,

Slavery, Abortion, Human trafficking have nothing to do with traditional marriage and less to do with same sex marriage. The support you say that has been lost for traditional marriage is mirrored by the 42 states that ban same sex marriage…

Slavery is a human phenomenon based on living not on using our sex organs

Abortion is a problem with those that are able to use their sex organs to procreate

Human trafficking is slavery and not based on sex organs although I understand prostitution is part of this…

Same sex marriage is based on using sex organs, for those that cannot procreate and I am not sure, but is there, homosexual human trafficking?

You are wrong that the support for traditional marriage has lost ground, when you see that 42 states ban this. Same Sex marriage is not a fight, it is a plea for something that homosexuals have no right to…that is my opinion and the opinion of 42 states…

We war on the side of humanity to fight slavery, abortion, human traficking…

Who wages the war for same sex marriage…? and why is it bad?

 

[eternalrest]

Eternal,

Slavery, Abortion, Human trafficking have nothing to do with traditional marriage and less to do with same sex marriage. The support you say that has been lost for traditional marriage is mirrored by the 42 states that ban same sex marriage…

Slavery is a human phenomenon based on living not on using our sex organs

Abortion is a problem with those that are able to use their sex organs to procreate

Human trafficking is slavery and not based on sex organs although I understand prostitution is part of this…

Same sex marriage is based on using sex organs, for those that cannot procreate and I am not sure, but is there, homosexual human trafficking?

You are wrong that the support for traditional marriage has lost ground, when you see that 42 states ban this. Same Sex marriage is not a fight, it is a plea for something that homosexuals have no right to…that is my opinion and the opinion of 42 states…

We war on the side of humanity to fight slavery, abortion, human traficking…

Who wages the war for same sex marriage…? and why is it bad?

It is a fight. Look at California. Proposition 8 was passed. " On August 4, 2010, a federal court declared the ban unconstitutional in Perry v. Schwarzenegger, a decision which was upheld by the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit on February 7, 2012. A series of stays have kept the legal availability of same-sex marriage on hold pending further appeal."

It may go to the Supreme Court, and who knows what will happen then? Especially if Obama is re-elected in Nov. 2012? If Proposition 8 is stricken down by the Supreme Court, then no state will be able to ban same-sex marriage even if a majority of the people in the State want to do so.

Public opinion polling in favor of traditional marriage goes down every year as well. Nothing is wrong with supporting traditional marriage; people surely must support traditional marriage. But it is important to also support anti-slavery work strongly. It is not just whether you are right or wrong; it is also your order of priorities. Do you let something that is extremely important fall to the back of the line?

 

[Elizabeth502]

I looked at the picture and read the captions.

Whoever put this together has their own agenda

Yeah, no kidding. When you have no true argument (no real contrasts that can be validly made), it’s important to distract.

 

[CopticChristian]

It is a fight. Look at California. Proposition 8 was passed. " On August 4, 2010, a federal court declared the ban unconstitutional in Perry v. Schwarzenegger, a decision which was upheld by the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit on February 7, 2012. A series of stays have kept the legal availability of same-sex marriage on hold pending further appeal."

It may go to the Supreme Court, and who knows what will happen then? Especially if Obama is re-elected in Nov. 2012? If Proposition 8 is stricken down by the Supreme Court, then no state will be able to ban same-sex marriage even if a majority of the people in the State want to do so.

Public opinion polling in favor of traditional marriage goes down every year as well. Nothing is wrong with supporting traditional marriage; people surely must support traditional marriage. But it is important to also support anti-slavery work strongly. It is not just whether you are right or wrong; it is also your order of priorities. Do you let something that is extremely important fall to the back of the line?

Dreamer,

Did you know that 12 steps/AA has been ruled to be a religion by the 7th and 9th Circuit Courts…it will probably never make it to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court would agree, so no one is taking it there.

Did you know that the Supreme Court does not have to hear a case. The Supreme Court may say…the state has ruled and it is a state’s right issue…then where is your fight?

Do you honestly believe that the Supreme Court will look at 42 states that ban same sex marriage and California and then say…well of course we should just let all the same sex couples get married and the the states can take a hike.

Same Sex marriage is at the end of the line for a reason.

 

[CopticChristian]

I was speaking with a homosexual friend last week, and she had found this picture which talks about how people were boycotting Oreo for the pride cookie, but not talking at all about human trafficking or hungry children in the U.S.

My first thought was that this is just about what sells; I know the Catholic Church puts a lot of work toward feeding the hungry in the world, though admittedly I’ve never heard about a concerted Catholic anti-human-trafficking program.

But my second thought is that it’s about salvation, and that’s the one I wanted your opinions on.

The difference between human trafficking and homosexuality is that nobody is trying to tell us that human trafficking is okay. Yes, dealing in child prostitutes is terrible, but the pimps and the customers both go to hell, while the traumatized children have a chance to go to Heaven, and so it all works out in the end. No action on our part is required, we only need a vague sense of disapproval to be **morally correct and achieve our own salvation.**If homosexuality were just some guys or girls doing bad things with each other and going to hell for it, then it wouldn’t be a big deal. But the issue is not what they’re doing it’s that they’re trying to tell my kids that it’s morally acceptable. If my kid believes that, then even if she never actually commits a homosexual act, she will not have the right morality, and **may not get into Heaven.**Likewise with abortion, the evil provider and the customer go to hell (barring later repentance) and the baby goes to Heaven… the situation works out fine, just like child prostitutes. But if my children grow up thinking it’s okay, instead of believing Biblical morality, then it’s not just the involved parties whose salvation is threatened.

I have read all of your postings and as I understand it you are no longer an athiest, you are a Christian…I am confused with what you write…

You speak of salvation and having the right morality gains entrance to heaven and you say that being morally correct we achieve our own salvation. You also speak of “biblical morality” and threatened salvation.

You have stated that you are a former athiest and now a Christian.

I ask you to tell me what is “biblical morality”.

I ask you to tell me how we achieve our own salvation. This is an interesting proposition.

I ask you to tell me how salvation can be threatened. Some say it can and some say it cannot be.

How does the right morality get you into heaven and not having the right morality negate heaven…

Just a few questions for clarity of your position on these issues.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, CopticChristian,

I would be interested in the answers to these questions, too.

God bless

I have read all of your postings and as I understand it you are no longer an athiest, you are a Christian…I am confused with what you write…

You speak of salvation and having the right morality gains entrance to heaven and you say that being morally correct we achieve our own salvation. You also speak of “biblical morality” and threatened salvation.

You have stated that you are a former athiest and now a Christian.

I ask you to tell me what is “biblical morality”.

I ask you to tell me how we achieve our own salvation. This is an interesting proposition.

I ask you to tell me how salvation can be threatened. Some say it can and some say it cannot be.

How does the right morality get you into heaven and not having the right morality negate heaven…

Just a few questions for clarity of your position on these issues.

 

[eternalrest]

Dreamer,

Did you know that 12 steps/AA has been ruled to be a religion by the 7th and 9th Circuit Courts…it will probably never make it to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court would agree, so no one is taking it there.

Did you know that the Supreme Court does not have to hear a case. The Supreme Court may say…the state has ruled and it is a state’s right issue…then where is your fight?

Do you honestly believe that the Supreme Court will look at 42 states that ban same sex marriage and California and then say…well of course we should just let all the same sex couples get married and the the states can take a hike.

Same Sex marriage is at the end of the line for a reason.

Then why does France have plans to do so soon?