An explanation of pogroms in the Catholic philosophy of history?

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Yalibeth

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AWARENESS: This thread has been written with hards word. But I did it only to explain the facts in a clear manner. I am sure of the holiness of the catholic spirit.

I can understand the spirit that inspired the march of the Crussades against the Muslim lordships that have caught the Holy Places. The invasors had to expect reactions as a consequence of their historical decission. Muslims defy Christianity and Christianity tried to win the tour de force…

but I cannot understand the Catholic historical sense of pogroms. It was not a war… it was no more than falling over a ghetto and starting to kill the people contained there. It was not an issue on honor but an action of make more miserable a life that was already miserable.
Was the hate against the Pharisaic spirit the mobile that leaded to those actions? But how could those men which have into them the Holy Spirit - and in that manner able to be feel angry with the Mossaic law -make those things? Holy people would act in a different way of at least would have kill the pusilanimi in a more appacible way - oximoron!

The very original word: po grom -is russian. In my opinion it was more the logos adquired by Jews which suffered the evolution of a Church more worried by this world than by the Sacred Heart of Jesus (I talk about the Orthodox Church)—> and so blind. Strong pharisees vs weak pharisees, But it is know that there were razzias over ghettos also during the Middle Ages and another catholic rules.

What is a catholic explanaition of that? Is our history before the Jews dead after this?
books? documments?

thanks!
 
Wikipedia says that there were only two pogrom of weight: One the serie of those commited by the Very First Crussade (the Crussade of the Poors—> I have read about a pogrom commited by a mass of people leaded by Pierre l’Ermitain) the other was one in York. This was also a pogrom in Portugal now in the Early Modern Times but not yet under the Illustrate climate (I don’t want to say that Modernity is pro-semite—> Totalitarism is pos-modernity–> and look Hitler). One memorial remembers the Lisbon pogrom at he Church of St. Domingo–> how well done—> The light of Catholicism knowledge is there for act over Catholics’soul.

All this is much less thant how much I expected… anyways, is there some link to the Catholic truth?
 
Yalibeth said:
AWARENESS: This thread has been written with hards word. But I did it only to explain the facts in a clear manner. I am sure of the holiness of the catholic spirit.

I can understand the spirit that inspired the march of the Crussades against the Muslim lordships that have caught the Holy Places. The invasors had to expect reactions as a consequence of their historical decission. Muslims defy Christianity and Christianity tried to win the tour de force…

but I cannot understand the Catholic historical sense of pogroms. It was not a war… it was no more than falling over a ghetto and starting to kill the people contained there. It was not an issue on honor but an action of make more miserable a life that was already miserable.
Was the hate against the Pharisaic spirit the mobile that leaded to those actions? But how could those men which have into them the Holy Spirit - and in that manner able to be feel angry with the Mossaic law -make those things? Holy people would act in a different way of at least would have kill the pusilanimi in a more appacible way - oximoron!

The very original word: po grom -is russian. In my opinion it was more the logos adquired by Jews which suffered the evolution of a Church more worried by this world than by the Sacred Heart of Jesus (I talk about the Orthodox Church)—> and so blind. Strong pharisees vs weak pharisees, But it is know that there were razzias over ghettos also during the Middle Ages and another catholic rules.

What is a catholic explanaition of that? Is our history before the Jews dead after this?
books? documments?

thanks!
Click to expand...
Pogroms have never as far as I know been approved of by the Catholic Church. What amounted to pogroms (indeed often much worse than the later Eastern European atrocities to which the name refers) certainly happened quite often in the Middle Ages. And the Church bears some blame, in my opinion, for teaching things about the Jews that worked people up. And Church officials often failed in their duty of protecting Jews during such massacres. In one instance, for instance, Jews took refuge in a church and were told that they would have to leave (facing almost certain death) unless they were willing to be baptized. When they later claimed that the baptism had been coerced and thus invalid, Church courts rejected the claim because at the time they had been inside the church and thus not literally at the point of imminent death.

But the Catholic hierarchy did act to protect Jews on many occasions, and to try to prevent/calm the atrocities.

Edwin
 
Yalibeth said:
Wikipedia says that there were only two pogrom of weight: One the serie of those commited by the Very First Crussade (the Crussade of the Poors—> I have read about a pogrom commited by a mass of people leaded by Pierre l’Ermitain) the other was one in York. This was also a pogrom in Portugal now in the Early Modern Times but not yet under the Illustrate climate (I don’t want to say that Modernity is pro-semite—> Totalitarism is pos-modernity–> and look Hitler). One memorial remembers the Lisbon pogrom at he Church of St. Domingo–> how well done—> The light of Catholicism knowledge is there for act over Catholics’soul.

All this is much less thant how much I expected… anyways, is there some link to the Catholic truth?
Click to expand...
There were many more than that. See for instance the Wikipedia article on the massacres of Jews during the Black Death in the fourteenth century.
 
I am afraid of how terrible the consequences can be if one person - or one society - is not fully cristian… If the heart - our most precious - is not converted are we like the half-dead possesed men at the Cemetery of Gerashah?
 
Yalibeth said:
I am afraid of how terrible the consequences can be if one person - or one society - is not fully cristian… If the heart - our most precious - is not converted are we like the half-dead possesed men at the Cemetery of Gerashah?
Click to expand...
Well, I’m afraid that’s the reality and is likely to be until the End.

The Church is always a mess, because the Church is made up of sinful people, most if not all of whom are only imperfectly converted.

Edwin
 
Contarini said:
… during the Black Death in the fourteenth century.
Click to expand...
The atmosphere must be taken into account.

MORE: I read oncee that the Golem - some what could be correlated to the rabbinic jewish aim to rebuilt Jerusalem by their own forces - as we expect Christ - i read once that the Golem was created at the Praga (hussism!) ghetto for fight against forces ready to make a pogrom… that was at he 17th centhury…
what a romance our history is!
 
Yalibeth said:
AWARENESS: This thread has been written with hards word. But I did it only to explain the facts in a clear manner.
thanks!
Click to expand...
Better said: I did it only to explain the fact - as they are depicted in the imaginary in a clear manner.

I understant that Christianity has no problem with the acceptation of images- Christ took an earthly image and made the world fall - he took all the credit that the other images had.

EDIT: Our faith has no problem with be put in one place - we do… I know well we do… 😦
 
I am not an expert on the history of pogoms in Catholic Europe; but the OP second paragraph on the crusades reveals such a complete misunderstanding of the nature of the crusades and the entire conflict between Christendom and the Islam world that I am left wondering if the OP’s description of pogoms is equally ff base.
 
tafan said:
I am not an expert on the history of pogoms in Catholic Europe; but the OP second paragraph on the crusades reveals such a complete misunderstanding of the nature of the crusades and the entire conflict between Christendom and the Islam world that I am left wondering if the OP’s description of pogoms is equally ff base.
Click to expand...
You are right. In deed, I have suggested that: I wrote the second paragraph making a narrative from only natural basis. From the natural point of view I don’t see how a vengeance - to take again the territory which was de juris catholic - could be dissaproved. I say it again: I don’t judge the Crussades according to their Catholic meaning… despite of that I don’t see anything bad at them—> from the natural point of view. I am truely sure of the honesty of the catholic meaning though I don’t know it.

I made a narrative about the pogroms according to the most cynical image I was able to imagine. I did this so we could be able to don’t be afraid of put our catholic faith on not-enough hard cicunstances— **but I don’t know if Pogroms were or not so tragic like I have supossed **. I want to say that if Pogroms where like I depicted them so they were not epic (like what one expects from nature - like the spirit of Crusades seeing from the only natural point of view) that was tragedy! (that should be a thing only proper to infra-nature)

And I said: The Crussades can be approved even from the natural point of view—> evil acts are part our sinful state which all men are able to see.
A raid in a miserable ghetto to kill people - how has this meaning in the catholic philosophy of history? Not like an anti-Pharisaic act because hipocresy only can be condamned by a pure heart and pogromers didn’t appear to be pure souls.

But maybe the pogroms weren’t so hard like I depicted - I had been inspired only by the collective imagination. And in that case this I said has no sense

how I said to Condarini: The christian raids over the ghettos in the 14th century weren’t actions from people who was firmly seated on their - christian/catholic - intelligence… so the faith of the people has no guilt— the faith of the Hyearchy either - they were voices claiming for the safety of the Jews

were there times when firmly catholic people made raids on the jewish ghettos and commited pogroms? I am not sure - but the York pogrom was in a time when Catholicism was not in crisis and not either under the Cross of the feudal order.

There were also pogroms at the 17th century in Praga a town really perturbed by the religious troubles.

I feel that being confronted to the Jewish culture show us the Via Crucis in a best manner.

I don’t want any bad judgement
on Catholicism
on me

I am not making any judgement—> only showing my own confusion.

I expect to have been understood.
(sorry by my english too - I prefer the Anglo-saxon christendom so I write among you)
 
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